Let's Talk Diesels..

[purepmd]

Hey Chuck, that is a very cool video, thanks for posting it.

Sam, That kind of treatment of equipment is sad, and plainly ignorant. Drivers like that, give good mechanics job security. But at what cost. I found something awhile back you might find interesting. It is a nonaqueaous coolant. Instead of being made from ethylene glycol, it is made from propylene glycol. You have to have less than 1% water left in the system. NO electrolysis at all. Operational temp range of -70F. To 375F. Boiling point. No steam pockets from water, and an operational pressure as low as 2 pounds. I plan on using it in a 455 Pontiac going in my Firebird. With no water, the cooling efficiency is far greater, and no corrosion, for any metal. It is pricier than regular coolant, but lasts a lot longer. Evans is the name of the company that makes it. They cater to fleets. Cool stuff.

[guitarsam326]

Thanks Mark, thats interesting, i think ive heard of it before....what year is the firechicken? I have a 67

[Aaronw]

Diesel ignition has little to do with longevity, the old gas engines had similar long lives. Big truck engines are built to last, if you built a truck engine that could only go 100,000 miles who would want it, they would be replacing an engine every year. Regular maintenance and being driven by professional drivers is also a major factor.

You can find cars with 1 million miles on them as well, but that is the exception because most people treat their cars poorly. There is a one owner 1966 Volvo 1800 with a documented 3 million miles on the original engine, with no major breakdowns. You can bet that guy pays attention to his car.

 

If you like to read / have the time to read there is a book "Cummins, the engine that could" which you might find interesting. It was paid for by Cummins who wanted an unbiased look at what they have done wrong and right over their history to help the company stay on the right track. Although it is focused on the history on one company it is a very old company and does a good job of tracing the history and development of the diesel engine in the US. New it is quite expensive (I think it is used as a text book for business majors), but you can find used copies cheap on Amazon or ebay. While it might sound dry, it was one of those books I actually had a hard time putting down. Sadly while the talk about individual engines, there is not much in the way of photos or diagrams which would have been useful for models.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Aaronw

[purepmd]

Hey Sam, 

Nice to find another Tin Indian fan. It is a 1970. The 455 has Edelbrock aluminum heads, with 2.11 intakes, and 1.77 exhaust, a Comp Cams hydraulic roller cam, 1.65 Comp roller rockers, Diamond pistons, S.C.A.T. steel rods, backed by a Tremec TKO 600. Should be lots of fun smoking the tires, banging gears, and scaring the neighbors.

[guitarsam326]

Sorry to highjack the thread, didnt mean too! 

Mark, im not sure what to he true specs are on my engine as i didnt build it. All i know is its a 326 with a mild cam, 4 barrel, edelbrock intake...yada yada yada! Almost put a tremec behind mine, bust nostalgia got the better of me and i put an m20 behind it.... Lots and lots of fun!

[Petetrucker07]

I can't wait to rebuild the 406 in my Camaro, have the 2.05 valves put in the camel backs that have sittin on my bench for the past 5 years. I love settin off car alarms in the grocery store parkin lot. I sure miss drivin it.

 

 

[10thumbs]

Thanks guys for the interesting info.  For instance I had no idea more than 10 gallons of oil circulates in Diesel motors!  I really enjoy reading this stuff, I was hoping for some informative firsthand talk, and you guys are doin' good.

Mark and Sam, good info.  About the cooling part, I googled the Mojave Area and checked out some highways there.  I'll bet that place is scorching in August.  I would like to take a ride though on Highway 550 from NM northwards, just not in the heat.  It looks like a nice drive.  Maybe I can make it out West soon to visit brother in Arizona.

Also guys, about the million miles, when you have a new route to drive and you make up your plans, what kind of miles per hour distance do you calculate?  How does the schedule thing work, basically speaking?  Or are all the routes so well mapped that there's a database or something to get info and details from?

PS:  I know from the old days that Pontiacs can be made to make great runners.  Back then too, they had a good over-the-counter performance parts selection and some old GTO's sounded  real nasty.

Michael

[Petetrucker07]

Once you've been driving long enough, you kinda have a rough idea how long it takes point to point to point. 

Micheal, I live in the Mojave Desert. I do most of my truckin through the desert in the middle of the night, but sometimes in the middle of day. During the summer, I really do my damnedest to stay inside the truck in the cold air conditioning. Same in the winter. This morning for example, it's 28 degrees, in the Mojave Desert. If you ever get a chance to look this up on the map. I leave my yard in Victorville Ca. I drive north on highway 15, east on highway 40 to Amboy Ca. Then I keep going on east on 40 to Needles Ca where I take highway 95 south to highway 62, take that east to Arizona. I run across highway 72 then take a small road down to interstate 10 east, run that in to Phoenix. 

I used to run it during the sunrise hours, man let me tell you, there were some amazing sunrises out there. 

Here are a few sunrise and sunset pics from travels in Southern Ca, Nevada, and Arizona. This one of the many reasons I love my job. Some of the sunrises were never seen anybody else.

And finally, an ocean sunset, sittin in traffic. 

[Petetrucker07]

Here's a couple more sunrise with trucks I was driving.

This Pete has a very strong, hopped up 3406. Oversize turbo. It's a first year 379. I really liked this truck.

This truck is a 386 Pete. It's a last year CAT truck. It has a C13 in it, all stock, but ran with the big Cummins. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by Petetrucker07

[10thumbs]

Fabulous pics Clayton!

I've seen some of those on the other topic, really fantastic.  The rigs are worth building as examples or reference pics.  The bottom one with the running lights on has an atmosphere about it that this time of day can really bring out.

About "hopping up " the motors.  Would this only be done if the truck or rig was privately owned?

I think the deserts out West have a really attracting scenery to them, but I can't handle heat very well.  Funny thing, I'm from Florida too.  Never liked the heat and humidity there.  But something about the very early morning still excites me.  Back in Florida I liked the big river early in the morning as the ships were heading out to sea.  Still dark but you could see the sun starting to come out east over the Atlantic.

Clayton, I'm going to google the route you just wrote to get a sense of the tour.

[Petetrucker07]

To answer your question, yes. Mainly owner operators will spend the 1000s to 10s of thousands to hop up a diesel engine. If you search on youtube, PDI performance, that will kinda get in to it. They host Diesel Dyno Days, or something like that, every year. Their show truck has a 2000 horse C16.

[purepmd]

Clayton, great pictures, some of things you get to see on the road, are amazing. The 386 is pretty sharp, but nothing compares with the long hood and Pete grille on the 379. Timeless design, will alway be the best looking Pete conventional.

Sam, sounds like a sweet toy. So glad to hear you have that 'adjustable torque convert' under your left foot. I had to go with the Tremec because the Richmond Gear Super T10 did not have a high enough torque rating. The Tremec is right on the edge with 600 ft lbs constant rating. The last 6 big inch Ponchos my engine guy built all made over 620 ft lbs. This one should be a beast as well.

Michael, when I started, there was no such thing as GPS. A motor carrier atlas and a calculator was how I did all my trip plans. Some companies provide their drivers preset routes, some do not. OTR drivers get paid by the mile, so you try to take the shortest, truck friendly, (no low bridges, weight restricted, no truck route free, etc...), route you can. Paid miles and odometer miles never seem to match up, so you just minimize the difference. Planning fuel stops, loading and unloading time, rush hour traffic and avoiding it, meals, and sleep is the best way to go, but not always possible. Like Clayton said, after a while, you just kind of know how far you have to go, and how fast you have to get there.

A Diesel engine is like any other internal combustion engine. The more air and fuel you can get in it, the more power you get out of it. More boost, higher rate injectors, reprogrammed ECMs, even propane injection, (nitrous oxide for diesels), are common modifications.

Edited November 29, 2015 by purepmd

[10thumbs]

Thanks guys.  I remember my dad saying way back when, on longer type family trips he figured in 50 miles reached per hour's time.  That was a long time ago.  Today in Germany,  some of the Autobahns still have no speed limit and the folks are pushing it.  I still try to keep an average 60 to 65mph for good time and low fuel consumption.  The juice is expensive here.  I still average in about 50 mph., 60 though if I don't have to stop.  I think it could be better though if only the wife wasn't wanting a bratwurst at ever dang pit stop...lol.   Geez, we get in the car and 20 minutes later the nagging starts again.

So, is 50 close, or do you manage more since your stops are probably far apart?

 

[Petetrucker07]

For me, being a California driver, I can only legally figure 50, max. Since our state is stubborn or just plain stupid, trucks are limited to 55 (legally).

[10thumbs]

Clayton, I'm sorry to hear that 55 is still law.  55 is slow.  Period.   My Vespa is quicker.  I see it as the vehicle is longer in the same area, therefore more intensively emitting the junk that's supposed to be regulated.  I had once an idiot neighbor who did 55 in his driveway.   My wife drives 55, only on a good day though.  I wouldn't mind if she'd only shift into a higher gear.  3 out of 5 is not a good choice for this speed.  Next car she's getting will have an automatic.

[Petetrucker07]

That's why I kinda made a point of legally. Our trucks are governed at 65. We do that most if the time. I've tried to do my runs at 55. I ended up pulled over on an off ramp or rest area sleepin. That 386 with the marker lights on, that truck was governed at 95. Let's just say a set of legs went by and proved it.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Petetrucker07

[Nova-ss]

Great info..enjoyed it..thanks to all...Chris 

[10thumbs]

Guys, I've been enjoying reading about diesel talk here in the forum.  There's a couple of Detroit Diesel topics going on, I don't want to go off topic on those.  So,

QUESTION:  All you guys say the Detroits have to be run/driven like you stole them.  Foot in it and no looking back. 

What about fuel mileage?  Doesn't the flogging raise the consumption drastically?  Do you care?  What does the boss think about consumption?

Happy New Year!

 

 

[Petetrucker07]

Well, most fleet trucks are detuned. So, that driving it like that doesn't really effect anything. Now, as an owner operator. You know where you can and where you cant. There are O/Os that have 800 to 1200 horse and getting 9 miles a gallon. Which is REALLY good. When I worked for Schneider, that truck was lucky to get 5, even going down hill with the engine off (not that I did it, just an exaggeration).

[10thumbs]

Clayton I think that's interesting.  So,  are the motors detuned so they can't reach a higher speed? 

This tells me then they're not reaching any where near their possible most efficient values.  Maybe not even being able to reach the point where torque and horsepower curves meet, way below probable peak efficiency.  This means they're straining and guzzling fuel like crazy.  The big power units reaching 9mpg really surprises me!  Dangit, I think to still hear my mom's disgust at the family's various Oldsmobiles way back 50's and 60's.  She kept book, especially on trips and seethed when the deal was around only 10mpg.  Amazing.  My dad was not an efficient driver, he liked romping on the gas pedal.  Us kids too.  Man I think gas was like 20 cents a gallon.  I could tank my 1st car in 67 at 24 cents a gallon.

Any fleet drivers that can chime in?

Do truckers keep book on fuel consumption, or do you have too?

Edited January 1, 2016 by 10thumbs

[Petetrucker07]

Fleets detune the trucks in an attempt to "equilize" the fuel curve. There are quite a few drivers who have the mentality of, it's not my truck, not fuel, I don't care. So the trucks are under powered. Most of the time, drivers have nothing to do tracking fuel. Some barely have to worry about even putting fuel in it. Most big companies have accepted there own creation, the steering wheel holder. Some of these have no idea what a proper running truck drives like. JB Hunt here for example. For the longest, to some point still today, have their trucks governed at 62 miles an hour. That's in an attempt to get fuel mileage down by lowering the longest he RPM. They believe lower RPM means lower fuel mileage. Yes and no. Mileage also has to do with turbo pressure. If your runnin at 1400 RPM, while boosting 28 PSI, mileage isn't as good as you'd think. If run the same RPM, but at 15 or 20 PSI, mileage gets much better. It's definitely an art to driving a big horsepower truck. You might be able to pull the hills at 75, holding back and not doing it is the hard part. 

[10thumbs]

"Hold back guys"!  Huh?  What's that?   Man, that there is a word. 

I don't even think that phrase ever existed in evolution of man-language.  lol.  Maybe a woman made it up?

I kind of get the rift about the steering wheel holders.  I understand better now what you mean.  I watched a tube video of some young blonde thing wheeling a big truck.  An automatic.  Enter ship(?)-storm.  My older brother probably was one too.  He made his license at age 50 after bailing out of broker-life.  Drove a couple of years for a bigger-type line out in Az.  He fulfilled a dream and was able to get out of both worlds doing well.  Still there but now relaxed.

Question now:  Are drivers able to manipulate turbo pressure from the cockpit?  If you know you have a couple of hours of flat land, or big hills coming up for the next few hours, what do you do to change power reserves?

 

[Petetrucker07]

The boost is controlled by your foot on the pedal. If you keep foot off the floor, the boost and fuel consumption will be less. There's no real way to reserve power. Unless you have 95 mile an hour truck and only do 70. Then you have longer legs, to catch up to the legs that just blew your doors off, (yes I've done that, LOL). It's just a matter of knowing how to drive a truck that's tuned like it should be from the dealer, nevermind tuned from Pittsburg Power or PDI. 

If want some cool videos, youtube PDI Dyno days.

[KJ790]

Guys, I've been enjoying reading about diesel talk here in the forum.  There's a couple of Detroit Diesel topics going on, I don't want to go off topic on those.  So,

QUESTION:  All you guys say the Detroits have to be run/driven like you stole them.  Foot in it and no looking back. 

What about fuel mileage?  Doesn't the flogging raise the consumption drastically?  Do you care?  What does the boss think about consumption?

Happy New Year!

 

 

That was only true of the old 2-stroke detroits. Detroit came out with the Series 60 engine in the mid 1980's (which was a 4-stroke like the cummins and cat engines) and that motor was designed to pull at low RPMs like the others.

 

The 2-stroke detroits did not make much power at low RPMs, so you had to rev them up, and they were built to run like that. They did not get very good fuel mileage, but neither did anything during the 60's and 70's. Power and fuel mileage have come a long way in the last 30 years.

[guitarsam326]

On the subject of big horses and great fuel mileage, remember this. You have 40 tons you are trying to push down the road with 250 horses constantly screaming just to run 62 mph. Then you have the same 40 tons with 600+ horses just putting at 70, which one do u think will get better mileage? Sometimes more horses means you dont work the engine as hard, in turn using less fuel...