Paint rules from the ...."old school"

[just_a_doodz]

Ive been absent from the scene for like 14-15 years and Im 34....SOO...I wasnt exactly a pro when I quit.What I want to know are the rules of painting.I know that airbrushing and rattle can painting differ BUT what are the "real" rules.Ive heard NO Lacquer over enamel...(unless its alclad).No this with that ...yadda yadda yadda.Im lloking for opinions and facts from those of you that have vast experience.DONT treat this thread like you are talking to the entire site....LOL.I NEED THE HELP.And believe me...no matter how long and "boring" you may think your response is.....IM listening.Right now....Im scared to use enamel because of the "gassing out" thing.Ive had GREAT success (in my own mind...LOL) with the Testors Lacquer stuff....BUT im sure there are TONS more options.Throw in name brands.....where to get it....etc.I am a rattle can user for now BUT I still want to know the airbrush rules too.Anyway...thanks in advance you guys.I appreciate all your knowledge.

[sdrodder]

well all i mainly know of is never put laquer over enamel exept for alclad or enamel over laquer. For enamal paint and the gassing out. Let it sit about one week to 3 weeks depending on the temp in your area. Like for me i am in so cal and in the summer its about 100 degress and more. So when i spray enamel i let it sit for a week at least maybe a little longer. Befor sparying clear on it though, future floor polish i would let it sit 2 weeks to prevent wrinkling. As for the floor polish u can get it at any home improvement stor i think. It is already thin enought to spray so just pop it in the air brush and go. It dries rock hard and is self leveling. Hope this helps a bit i think the others here can help u out a little more than me hough. Lets here it guys.

[sdrodder]

come on. LEts help him out guys.

[Brian Fishburn]

Rule #1- if you are unsure how a paint product will react with styrene and/or another paint product, TEST IT FIRST. Get a scrap body, chassis pan, interior, whatever- test it on scrap before laying it on your latest pride and joy.

Rule #2- go back and read rule #1 again!

[CAL]

Ive been absent from the scene for like 14-15 years and Im 34....SOO...I wasnt exactly a pro when I quit.What I want to know are the rules of painting.I know that airbrushing and rattle can painting differ BUT what are the "real" rules.Ive heard NO Lacquer over enamel...(unless its alclad).No this with that ...yadda yadda yadda.Im lloking for opinions and facts from those of you that have vast experience.DONT treat this thread like you are talking to the entire site....LOL.I NEED THE HELP.And believe me...no matter how long and "boring" you may think your response is.....IM listening.Right now....Im scared to use enamel because of the "gassing out" thing.Ive had GREAT success (in my own mind...LOL) with the Testors Lacquer stuff....BUT im sure there are TONS more options.Throw in name brands.....where to get it....etc.I am a rattle can user for now BUT I still want to know the airbrush rules too.Anyway...thanks in advance you guys.I appreciate all your knowledge.

I don't know. I don't follow the rules. I have put every kind of paint over every other kind of paint, and only encountered very rare problems.

Gas out only really applies if you put some over a paint that does gas out.

As far as rattle cans you really can't beat Tamiya Synthetic Lacquers. Good stuff.

Airbrushing is a whole nother animal where some rules start to apply for best results. I tend to stick with enamels for airbrushing mostly, but I occationally use Testors acrylics. Overall, however, acrylics and I don't get along that well.

But I have airbrushed everything from Testors enamels to W&N artist oils, acrylics, rub-n-buffs, and water colors from tubes

The whole thing and trick is to try stuff, experiment, what works for one person doesn't always work for everyone else.

The problem is if you just listen to the pros you get afraid to try stuff outside the box you put yourself in. That is where you will miss out on all kinds of little tricks and techniques that take you to the next level.

So my advice is take any advice as a guide with a grain of salt.

[kustoms]

Painting is not an excact science It takes some experimenting, there are alot of things to consider Ie type of paint, humidity, how thick our how thin you applie the product and most importantly prep work, all the paint in the world will not make shabbie body work look good. after you go over the body loooking for flaws mold lines sink marks and all you need to wash your model with a dishwashing soap to remove all the exesse mold releace agents the kit may have on it, then you will need to aply a good primer I personly have had good luck with Dupli - color brand sandible primer it comes in many colors grey, red, black or white, I use it right out of the spray can you can use this with laquars or enamles. It real important to spray lightly at first, I mean just a dusting, you will want to build up the coats a little at a time . alow bout ten minuets between coats Now dont let me scare you when i say after about 6 light coats of primer you sure have a completly painted , solid color , coverd model, ok let this thing set for a week the look it over for any flaw that still show if your luckyyou wont find any but most likly there will be a few, you can take some fine sandpaper and gentaly sand the flaws out or if its real bad you need to use some putty,

seems like im wrightin a book here hahahah there are differant types of putty out there use a two part polyester glazing putty for full size cars you can get it at you auto motive jobber , spead some on a palette mix in the hardner and aplie it in thin coats let it dry in about 30 min then sand it smooth lookfor flaws again if any are found mix up some more putty sand and prime over and over till its gone

Now your ready for the color clean your model again with dishwashing soap and DO NOT Touch it you dont want oil from your skin on the surface you can make paint stand out of most anything a bent coat hanger or you can even tape it too the top of a spray can. again spray ery light dust coatings I usally start underneeth to cover all the undersides and fender wells first the flip it and spay the sides and finish with the top, hood and trunk after 4-5 coats of color set it aside dry another week and to protect the finish you can aplie some clear about three coats will do let this dry another week

as an option you may wax you model do not use a harsh rubbing compound it will harm all your work there are several waxes out there I like to use Mcgwiers brand but the brand you choose is up too you..

If you take your time you can have a great looking finish and dont be affraid to mess a few up somtimes it can go on really smooth and other time it doesnt step back take a breath and try it again

Rome wasnt painted in a day !

Bud Ellis Kustoms

[Guest Davkin]

come on. LEts help him out guys.

It's kinda hard to answer such a broad question. Ask a more specific question and I'll give an answer if I know something that might be helpful.

David

[just_a_doodz]

A bit late responding, but I was going over the many threads I've posted painting advice in to refer to & to cover as much greound as I can, so here goes!

Not rules, but some painting tips & hints:

1-Enamel can go over lacquer, water based acrylics can go over lacquer or enamel, but lacquer can't go over enamel or acrylic, (exception to the rule, Testors GlossCote & DullCote clear lacquers, & Testors Model Master clear lacquers, [gloss, semi-gloss & flat], are cool enough to go over enamels, as they were developed & formulated for that purpose). I'm not sure if Tamiya clear lacquer or the new Testors "One Coat" clear lacquer, or the Testors clear lacquer in their recent MM car colors lacquers will be safe over enamel, but it can be tested first.

This can affect how & why you use each type of paint, & the effect you're after. Let's tackle painting a carburetor for a good example. We'll say it's a Holley carb, so it should be a gold color. Let's paint it a base coat of gold lacquer & let that dry. Now, to make the shade/tint more realistic, lets do a wash with brass enamel paint & let that dry. This will begin to give you that nice Holley "patina". Follow with Testors acrylic Semi Gloss clear, (if using a brush), or Testors Model Master Semi Gloss lacquer, (if using a spray can). Detail paint fittings & the like of different colors with enamel or acrylic paints. Now give it all a final wash with acrylic flat black to bring out the engraving of various areas.

See why all three types of paint are important for your painting arsenal?

I also just learned that one can use artists oils over water based acrylics for highlighting, & clean off the excess with mineral spirits, as the mineeral spirits don't affect the acrylic.

Testors & Tamiya acrylic paints can be thinned with water or 70% isopropyl alcohol for brush painting & doing washes & the like, & craft acrylics, (Apple Barrel & Folk Art for two examples, Folk Art has some nice metallics & pearls in acrylics), can be thinned in much the same manner, though I'd try water with those as well. I personally prefer acrylics for washes & detail painting on top of either enamels or lacquers for the following reasons: If you goof up, they are far more forgiving to wash off & redo, & since water or alcohol is the main solvent in them, you're less likely to have an adverse solvent reaction, especially in doing washes, as they require more solvent. Also Andrea Colors are a hard to find but great acrylic hobby paint. They are used by a lot of figure modelers & thus have many colors not available from Testors or Tamiya that can be used for different effects.

2-Two of the best things you can test out various paints on are these.

A-The back of the plastic signs you can buy at Wal-Mart, hardware stores, etc. You know, the ones that say "Keep Out", "Beware Of Dog" or whatever. Whenever I'm painting candies, pearls & the like I have two, (one has all lacquer primers/base coats for testing lacquer top coats, the other has lacquer primers & enamel base coats for testing enamel top coats), that I'll tape to the outside of my paintbooth, (as it's a wardrobe box, this works well). These signs have the following vertical, (when taped in the direction I use) stripes on them: White primer, gray primer, red oxide primer, metallic gold, metallic silver, & gloss black. All I have to do is spray a horizontal stripe of whatever color coat I'm planning to use across these stripes to get an exact look at how the color coat looks over different bases. About once a year or so, I'll have to prep a new sign for testing, & it costs about a dollar is all. Pretty cheap & very effective.

B-Plastic spoons. These are great for trying out different painting techniques, & have the added benefit of being curved so you can get a good idea of reflection, light refraction, depth of shine & such. These also come in handy if I want to test a shade like I do with the signs, but let's say I'm trying a candy blue over a blue base coat. I don't have blue as a base coat on those signs, so the spoons to the rescue! A big thanks to Steve Milberry for posting this tip on the forum! This is also a cheap thing to do.

3-Primer on the body parts at the very least is a must for me. It eliminates the transparency of the plastic, making it more opaque, & thus more realistic looking.

4-Future floor finish, (now called "Pledge With Future Shine", same thing), is a great barrier against pigment bleed through from colored plastics, & is also a great barrier for plastic against hot paints & primers. It can be airbrushed, the parts can be dunked in it, or use my method: using 1 1/4' or 1/2" brush, simply brush it on. Let it dry, scuff with an 1,800 grit polishing pad or cloth, or a piece of 1,000 grit automotive sandpaper, then simply prime & paint as normal.

5-Here's my rattle can technique, (assuming proper prep work, sanding, cleaning, priming, etc. has been done first):

Go to your local auto parts store, & check in their auto body section for a snap on spray trigger for rattle cans, (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc. sometimes carry them in their auto parts paint section as well). The one I have is made by Krylon, but any makes the spray can easier to control.

Warm the cans in a pan of hot tap water, (NOT boiling & DON'T try heating the paint on the stove), having the level of the water about halfway up the can. Shake the enamel cans 1-2 minutes to fully mix the paint, & place them back in the water when not spraying. For lacquer cans, swirl the can for the same time period.

Spray about 8-10" away from the body, using the basic techniques we all learn, (2-3 mist coats, on average built up slowly, allowing about 10-15 minutes between each mist coat).

Follow with about 2-3 wet coats, applied about 15-20 minutes apart.

If you're using a certain painting system, say Testors enamels, right after the last wet coat, follow with a coat of Testor enamel clear, (note, do NOT use this over white or light blue, as the enamel clear will yellow with age). The clear right then helps to level out the final coat & reduces orange peel. You can do the same with Testors lacquer clear over their enamel or lacquer paints, & Tamiya clear Lacquer over their lacquer sprays.

Let enamels cure at least a week before anymore clear coats are applied. For Tamiya lacquers, wait a month before clearing.

Get a good polishing kit, (the pads, swabs & sticks work really well), & follow the instructions in the kit.

Finish up with "The Treatment" model car wax. Bare Metal offers a plastic polish, & some of the Meguiars polishes are safe for hobby paints, (#5 & # 7). Other automotive polishing products may not be safe for hobby paints, but work well if you use automotive paints in modeling.

6-When stirring/shaking bottle paints, here's a basic rule of thumb: Acrylics can only be stirred, as shaking them creates air bubbles. I use toothpicks for stirring mine.

Enamels & lacquers can be stirred or shaken. In fact a hobby paint shaker is a great piece of equipment to have. It mixes paints thoroughly & completely, & with use of rubber bands, you can attach & shake a can of Testors or Tamiya spray paint on it. Even after shaking the bottle however, it is a good idea to stir it periodically when using it.

Hope these tips help!

WOW.....just....WOW.Thank you and the others for so much useful info.Im willing to try a lot of these different things in the future.Im VERY glad to have found such a awesome bunch of people to get tips and tricks.I REALLY appreciate it guys.Good modeling!!!Later.