Lewis Hamilton's Verdict in!

[CAL]

Lewis appeared in Paris at the International Court for illegally overtaking Kimi at Spa.

They first had to argue if it was admissable in court, which there are rumors that it was admissable and they were allowed to continue into their other arguments.

1. Race Control saying it was okay.

2. Unclear rule to start with and the clearification at Monza.

3. Hamilton cut the cicane to avoid a collission with KR.

Nobody is saying anything... the hearing, which lasted most of the day, ended several hours ago.

We will have to wait until tommorrow, or about 12hrs for the verdict.

Historically, however, the FIA Inter. Court has not overturned many cases, and historically, they have increased the penalty.

The outcome with certianly have a bearing on the WDC for 2008.

Some say that if the penalty is overturned that will hand the WDC to Hamilton.

Other say that if the penalty is upheld it will be the biggest travisty of justice in F1.

However, I am not so sure the majority of the F1 community is in aggreement with Mclaren and Hamilton. They did collect 32,000 signatures from fan on a petition to give Hamilton's points back. I am not convienced that is even a significant number, considering the fan base is in the millions.

My personal thoughts, regardless of my personal veiw of Hamilton, he deserved the penalty, and Mclaren should have just accepted it and let it go.

I think the court will have to rule to have the penalty upheld, otherwise it will be a license to continue with the Hamilton antics. Furthermore, they would have to have significant evidence to have this overturned. Something, that no one can argue for overturning. McLaren sounded confident they had some evidence, but was it enough?

Secondarly, fair or not, FIA has said they had to look out for Ferrari's interest. They are the minority, with most of F1 teams and people are out of England, the Italian team is somewhat isolated from the majority of F1 core community.

We will know soon.

The Official F1 website pole

25% said Hamilton will be successful.

68% said Hamilton will NOT be successful.

5% didn't know.

Edited September 23, 2008 by CAL

[crispy]

I have to agree with your thoughts Chris.

I too believe it should be upheld. It's sort of a double edged sword for the FIA. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

You'll have those that think FIA is in Ferrari's pocket too.

It's only a matter of time before he hurts himself and/or others. I don't want to see that happen.

At any rate is should be interesting to see what happens.

Thanks for the update.

Chris

[Nick F40]

I have to agree with your thoughts Chris.

I too believe it should be upheld. It's sort of a double edged sword for the FIA. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

You'll have those that think FIA is in Ferrari's pocket too.

It's only a matter of time before he hurts himself and/or others. I don't want to see that happen.

At any rate is should be interesting to see what happens.

Thanks for the update.

Chris

yup I do too and yes Chris I agree. It's just like what you said though, damned if they do and damned if they don't, they can't keep everyone happy but come on be senseful here!! I say he is going to hurt himself or cause damage to others and I don't want to see it at Singapore.

The people think that with Ferrari is becasue they have been with them for how long?

Thanks for updating

[CAL]

I have to agree with your thoughts Chris.

I too believe it should be upheld. It's sort of a double edged sword for the FIA. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

You'll have those that think FIA is in Ferrari's pocket too.

It's only a matter of time before he hurts himself and/or others. I don't want to see that happen.

At any rate is should be interesting to see what happens.

Thanks for the update.

Chris

I think FIA will be looked at with more of a raised eyebrow if they overturn it. I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if he (Hamilton) took an additional penalty for raising frivolous appeals. It has happened before.

And Hamilton used strong words at the hearing today, and talked down to the Judges saying (saying he had to talk down to those people), “That it takes special skills to make split second decision, and no one who isn’t a F1 driver could understand.†“Are any of you a F1 driver?†“No.†“Believe me I have been doing this since I was 8 years old and I know every maneuver in the book, and I am the best in world...†He additionally said that he could be doing a lot better things than defending himself today, but those 6 points were important to him and the WDC.

They just can't let him be above the law, which is exactly where he will be if they do overturn this.

Edited September 22, 2008 by CAL

[CAL]

yup I do too and yes Chris I agree. It's just like what you said though, damned if they do and damned if they don't, they can't keep everyone happy but come on be senseful here!! I say he is going to hurt himself or cause damage to others and I don't want to see it at Singapore.

The people think that with Ferrari is becasue they have been with them for how long?

Thanks for updating

No, you are right about that, they can't keep every one happy, but for any one who has been following this as close as I have will see that the support isn't largely on Hamilton's side.

Most of the F1 MB think the penalty was harsh but fair. Most of Hamilton's track rivals think the penalty was harsh but fair, I will note that not a singe F1 driver came out and said he was robbed. The F1 official site also is heavily in the camp that Hamilton will not win this appeal. History FWIW says it's a long shot, and Hamilton could fair even worse than penalty he already recieved.

I also agree, especailly if they (FIA) doesn't curb him (Hamilton) he is going to hurt himself or some body else.

Clearly from the quotes I read today he is out of control and can do no wrong -- "he is the best in the world." McLaren isn't doing anything to stop him. In fact, they seem only to be adding fuel to his fire.

[CAL]

No, you are right about that, they can't keep every one happy, but for any one who has been following this as close as I have will see that the support isn't largely on Hamilton's side.

Most of the F1 MB think the penalty was harsh but fair. Most of Hamilton's track rivals think the penalty was harsh but fair, I will note that not a singe F1 driver came out and said he was robbed. The F1 official site also is heavily in the camp that Hamilton will not win this appeal. History FWIW says it's a long shot, and Hamilton could fair even worse than penalty he already recieved.

I also agree, especailly if they (FIA) doesn't curb him (Hamilton) he is going to hurt himself or some body else.

Clearly from the quotes I read today he is out of control and can do no wrong -- "he is the best in the world." McLaren isn't doing anything to stop him. In fact, they seem only to be adding fuel to his fire.

FIA has been pretty clear as where they stand on Ferrari, and you can't discount it because if you do Ferrari will be lost from F1.

Ferrair has been there since it's inseption.

[crispy]

I would say harsh words from Hamilton indeed. Best in the world? I guess in my book to be considered the best in the world at that caliber of racing you should have a world title, i dunno, maybe that's just me.

Certainly Mclaren will fuel the fire, they know he'll try harder, which if that does happen can only mean bad things. Not only for him but for the other drivers as well.

I like a level headed driver who can win and do so with integrity. Just because you win a race here and there does not make you a King.

I look forward to the ruling and the race.

Chris

[CAL]

Inadmissable, the penalty stands.

[crispy]

Very Good! Any other penalties incurred because of the appeal?

Chris

[CAL]

Very Good! Any other penalties incurred because of the appeal?

Chris

Just the court costs. I guess he should consider himself lucky.

Edited September 23, 2008 by CAL

[Nick F40]

"FIA has been pretty clear as where they stand on Ferrari, and you can't discount it because if you do Ferrari will be lost from F1.

Ferrair has been there since it's inseption."

yeah, I mean come on people!

I would say harsh words from Hamilton indeed. Best in the world? I guess in my book to be considered the best in the world at that caliber of racing you should have a world title, i dunno, maybe that's just me.

Certainly Mclaren will fuel the fire, they know he'll try harder, which if that does happen can only mean bad things. Not only for him but for the other drivers as well.

I like a level headed driver who can win and do so with integrity. Just because you win a race here and there does not make you a King.

I look forward to the ruling and the race.

Chris

I agree, shouldn't you have something to back that up?

Hey, McLaren has money right? BRUCE? man, I bet he is turning in his grave, we have to talk to Ron I guess

I look forward also

Inadmissable, the penalty stands.

YAY!

http://blogs.iht.com/tribtalk/sports/f1/?p=504 extra info

Oh man I can't wait for Friday to start! I still hear that people in Malaysia are worried for the race and there are some people that don't want the roar in Singapore what, who doesn't love the sound?

Edited September 23, 2008 by Nick F40

[Len Colombo]

CAL,

I would like to find out where you read that remark from Wonderboy stating that he is "the best in the world".I have been on my F1 websites and i have not found that.The sheer arrogance and gall.McLaren's appeal was ruled inadmissable because according to the rules there was nothing McLaren could lodge an appeal against.Ron Dennis and his antics are becoming rather tiresome.

[CAL]

CAL,

I would like to find out where you read that remark from Wonderboy stating that he is "the best in the world".I have been on my F1 websites and i have not found that.The sheer arrogance and gall.McLaren's appeal was ruled inadmissable because according to the rules there was nothing McLaren could lodge an appeal against.Ron Dennis and his antics are becoming rather tiresome.

I found it on several sites, including the BBC, Telegraph UK, Planet F1, F1Network, I think it may have been on the officail F1 site.

[58 Impala]

Hamilton can say what ever he wants, Massa, Vettel, and Kubica have proved they can out drive him. As for the best in the world, I have two words for him-SCHUMACHER,SENNA. I know most F1 drivers are primadonas, but he's just an arrogant little SOB. Just my 2 cents.

[CAL]

Hamilton can say what ever he wants, Massa, Vettel, and Kubica have proved they can out drive him. As for the best in the world, I have two words for him-SCHUMACHER,SENNA. I know most F1 drivers are primadonas, but he's just an arrogant little SOB. Just my 2 cents.

He is just an arrogant little SOB.

I was willing to give him a chance last year, but he has proven time and again he is a spoiled child who has alienated me. I wonder how many others he has alienated? Seems to ge a growing number though.

I don't think he is that good either.

I think he has a good car that flatters him and he has no fear - which is dangerous in itself, but is willing to take those risks.

But we have seen major mistakes, not one or two, but several, we have also seen him use up a car in 30-40 laps. The best in the world doesn't use up a car or tires in 30 laps of a 70 lap race, the best in the world doesn't rear-end three drivers in one season, the best in the world doens't drive several other drivers off the track, the best in the world doesn't need to cut corners to pass the raigning WDC, and the best in the world doesn't need to tell the world he's the best in the world.

[Nick F40]

Hamilton can say what ever he wants, Massa, Vettel, and Kubica have proved they can out drive him. As for the best in the world, I have two words for him-SCHUMACHER,SENNA. I know most F1 drivers are primadonas, but he's just an arrogant little SOB. Just my 2 cents.

He is just an arrogant little SOB.

I was willing to give him a chance last year, but he has proven time and again he is a spoiled child who has alienated me. I wonder how many others he has alienated? Seems to ge a growing number though.

I don't think he is that good either.

I think he has a good car that flatters him and he has no fear - which is dangerous in itself, but is willing to take those risks.

But we have seen major mistakes, not one or two, but several, we have also seen him use up a car in 30-40 laps. The best in the world doesn't use up a car or tires in 30 laps of a 70 lap race, the best in the world doesn't rear-end three drivers in one season, the best in the world doens't drive several other drivers off the track, the best in the world doesn't need to cut corners to pass the raigning WDC, and the best in the world doesn't need to tell the world he's the best in the world.

man, I do not want to watch the race with you guys!

ok, MAYBE you Chris...

[CAL]

Furthermore, how many WDC does he have? 0 NONE ZERO ZIP NADA so he has no room to talk.

I am done now.

[935k3]

What would a year in F1 be without the drama. The ruling that drive thru penalties are not appealable seems like one of those rules they make up as they go along. I am rooting for Massa himself not really for Ferrari. Whether you like Ferrari or not everbody knows they are the heart and soul of F1. No other car name in the world is so recognizable as something special. Porsche is pretty special too though, I love them both.

[CAL]

What would a year in F1 be without the drama. The ruling that drive thru penalties are not appealable seems like one of those rules they make up as they go along. I am rooting for Massa himself not really for Ferrari. Whether you like Ferrari or not everbody knows they are the heart and soul of F1. No other car name in the world is so recognizable as something special. Porsche is pretty special too though, I love them both.

No, it is written in the sporting regs. There isn't really any gray area.

Article 152 of the International Sporting Code states that drive-through penalties are “not susceptible to appealâ€.

Here is the full Paragraph.

Penalties of driving through or stopping in pit lanes together with certian penalties specified in FIA Championship regulations were this is expressly stated, are not susceptible to appeal.

Sporting Reg, which were things brought to bare in court. There are other things that could have been included but were not.

16.1

Unless it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.

And for those who thought the penalty was unfair.

16.3

...

However, should either of the penalites under a) and b ) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concered.

It would have been about 35 second for Hamilton to complete a) A drive-through penalty.

30.3

a) During practice and the race, drives may use only the track and must at all times observe the provisions of the Code relating to driving behaviour on circuits.

App L

Chapter 4 Art 2(g) Overtaking

The race track alone shall be used by the drivers during the race.

Technically, if you read the entire sporting reg they could have thrown the book at Hamilton over this season alone, and has made errors and bad driving decisions where he could have been further penalized for failure to maintian his car (and or had his super comp license suspended or revoked), caused a collision, and forced a driver off track.

Again he should consider himself lucky, as there is no real provisions for cutting a corner even if the advantage is given up. That is more gray than anything else. He cut the corner, and not just a little, that in itself is cause for a penalty. Now do the Stewarts nail everybody for everything, no. I think they have been more than fair with Mr Hamilton, and in the interest of keeping the race going and fairness the have to over look, for example Monza where everyone cut the cicane a little. But I didn't see anyone who gained a big advantage from doing so. At Monza it is almost unavoidable even in the dry.

Hamilton kind of condemed himself by saying he had choiced to go right or left or crash. Why not right? Obvious.

Moreover, several drivers said, there is no way even if you take the bus-stop perfectly, under normal conditions, can you overtake in the hair-pin, it is just not possible - at best very unlikely.

Renault's Pat Symonds said, "Hamilton is starting to show signs that he is cracking under the pressure, and we are seeing more chink in his armor."

Yeah, me too, he (Massa) was my start of the season pick.

It sounds like he has allies, too, now.

Alonso said he hope Massa wins the WDC.

Glock is gunning for Hamilton.

Kimi has pretty much, or at least Ferrari, has made clear that Massa is there No.1 for the WDC bid.

I wouldn't want to be Hamilton in the mid or back field trying to get around some of these guys who really have not much to loose at this point.

Those are the two Titans Porsche and Ferrari, and it's always best then they are battling each other, and personally I don't consider Mclaren, particularly in this day and age, to be in the same class as Porsche and Ferrari. In fact, it would be hard to put anyone else in their class.

I think they (the FIA International Court) was being nice to Hamilton and Mclaren buy simply tossing it out. They could have come off a lot worse.

Edited September 24, 2008 by CAL

[Rob Hall]

Ah, I love F1...never boring...

[crispy]

Ah, I love F1...never boring...

LOL, So much so that I look forward more to F1 than watching any other form of racing.

Chris

[CAL]

Ah, I love F1...never boring...

Always some controversy on or off track.

[CAL]

LOL, So much so that I look forward more to F1 than watching any other form of racing.

Chris

Yes. It's about the only thing that will get my up Sunday morning at 5:30 am.

[58 Impala]

I have my opinions about different drivers. But I love a good clean race no matter who wins (well almost). I'm a big racing fan and love F1. The speeds, technology, and driver skill are awesome.

[Guest zebm1]

Now I watched that race, and Hamilton did let Kimi get back into position. Personally I think that FIA didn't like the wheel-bumping incident later on in that Lap.....and just used the Chicne incident to favor the Ferrari. Yall have to remember which Marque has paid most of FIA's Bills over the years... Enzo Ferrari. Controversy around the Ferrari marque "Sells Tickets".

If yall remember the rain was starting to fall and slicking up the track....and this year's Ferrari's are dogs in the wet. They are Dry weather cars.

Now if Hamilton had held his Line in that Chicane as Kimi pushed Hamilton into a decreasing space on the track...both cars would have crashed. Look what happened to Kimi later on....going slow and he still lost it.

My personal opinon: the FIA "penalized" Hamilton to "Gin-up" the closeness of the Points Race to "Sell Tickets". Let's go back a few Seasons, remember when "what's-his-name" blocked Hamilton's Timing Lap at Moraco? Did the Ferrari Driver "Lose Points" for a deliberate action?

Edited September 24, 2008 by zebm1