Plastic tires update

[Tabbysdaddy]

There is no need to feign concern for newcomers to the hobby. Young or old, people know the internet is a thing and most use it before doing something new or buying something new. Also, a snap kit is something recommended to newcomers so that could be considered a plus. Revell has sold snap kits for many years without indication on the box, this is not a new thing. One example:

[Justin Porter]

13 hours ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

There is no need to feign concern for newcomers to the hobby. Young or old, people know the internet is a thing and most use it before doing something new or buying something new. Also, a snap kit is something recommended to newcomers so that could be considered a plus. Revell has sold snap kits for many years without indication on the box, this is not a new thing. One example:

False equivalence. The difference here being that some Revell Snap kits, like that Peterbilt 359, their Acura NSX, the final generation Caprice, or the Lamborghini Diablo Roadster, all still hold up relatively well in terms of accuracy, proportion, and detail. In fact, said Diablo Roadster kit is a BETTER Diablo than the glue kits available from Italeri or AMT and is only handily beaten by the considerably more modern Aoshima kits. 

This Camaro isn't in that same weight class and shouldn't be treated as such. 

[Mike 1017]

22 hours ago, Justin Porter said:

I understand Quantum wanting to wring whatever bucks they can out of whatever's in the tooling bank that they couldn't foist off on Atlantis. A clearly labeled "nostalgia reissue" program much like Airfix does for the "Airfix Classics" range would temper the expectations of uninformed or unaware builders. That the reissue of the '55 Bel Air Street Machine has nice friendly "Monogram" labeling on the box lid definitely calls attention that it's older tooling at the least to builders who recognize the Monogram name and associate it with the past. 

They didn't do anything wrong in reissuing this kit. They do deserve the blowback for not giving consumers a clearer concept as to whether or not this kit was worth their dollars on the shelf.

 

[LL3 Model Worx]

14 hours ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

There is no need to feign concern for newcomers to the hobby. Young or old, people know the internet is a thing and most use it before doing something new or buying something new. Also, a snap kit is something recommended to newcomers so that could be considered a plus. Revell has sold snap kits for many years without indication on the box, this is not a new thing. One example:

My concern isn't necessarily for the children or the complete noob looking for a way to spend a rainy day.

I'm talking about the person who is into serious modeling, but isn't necessarily up to snuff on kit history. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I WAS THAT PERSON... not too many years ago. And it took me a long time to find this forum and slowly churn through the information here.

Sure, I do more thorough research now. But I still get duped once in a while, difference being, now I should know better and blame myself.

Before I knew what I know now, it would have been nice to not come across this camaro kit considering I have one in my driveway, I may have been inclined to buy it. And then be met with disappointment because of a lack of communication about what's in the box.

It just a mistake on Revells part... having to resort to forums on the internet to learn what a product is, is a TOTAL failure on the part of Revells marketing team period.

There's no defending that box... the model itself is not the infraction, it's the BOX.

 

[stavanzer]

5 minutes ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

 

It just a mistake on Revells part... having to resort to forums on the internet to learn what a product is, is a TOTAL failure on the part of Revells marketing team period.

There's no defending that box... the model itself is not the infraction, it's the BOX.

 

Amen. Both of your comments about this kit, express my thoughts better than I can.

[Tabbysdaddy]

1 hour ago, Justin Porter said:

False equivalence. The difference here being that some Revell Snap kits, like that Peterbilt 359, their Acura NSX, the final generation Caprice, or the Lamborghini Diablo Roadster, all still hold up relatively well in terms of accuracy, proportion, and detail. In fact, said Diablo Roadster kit is a BETTER Diablo than the glue kits available from Italeri or AMT and is only handily beaten by the considerably more modern Aoshima kits. 

This Camaro isn't in that same weight class and shouldn't be treated as such. 

They are equal in the manner I stated, they are both snap kits that aren't labeled as snap kits. Accuracy, proportion and detail are different arguments. There are tons of glue kits where all chassis detail is molded in, where the incorrect year interior is used, etc. 

[LL3 Model Worx]

I will say the Camaro kit does have a fairly nice dash... 

 

[Tabbysdaddy]

21 minutes ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

My concern isn't necessarily for the children or the complete noob looking for a way to spend a rainy day.

I'm talking about the person who is into serious modeling, but isn't necessarily up to snuff on kit history. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I WAS THAT PERSON... not too many years ago. And it took me a long time to find this forum and slowly churn through the information here.

Sure, I do more thorough research now. But I still get duped once in a while, difference being, now I should know better and blame myself.

Before I knew what I know now, it would have been nice to not come across this camaro kit considering I have one in my driveway, I may have been inclined to buy it. And then be met with disappointment because of a lack of communication about what's in the box.

It just a mistake on Revells part... having to resort to forums on the internet to learn what a product is, is a TOTAL failure on the part of Revells marketing team period.

There's no defending that box... the model itself is not the infraction, it's the BOX.

 

I have a 72 Lemans so I bought the MPC 72 GTO kit, not knowing what was inside. Didn't really care either because it's what is available. That's the model world, some are good some aren't. If one likes the subject they make do, they make it better. I don't think there is a problem with the box, the whole point of sales is to make the product look more appealing than it may or may not be. And according to the email it's a hot seller, so I would guess the majority are fine with it.

[LL3 Model Worx]

Just now, Tabbysdaddy said:

I have a 72 Lemans so I bought the MPC 72 GTO kit, not knowing what was inside. Didn't really care either because it's what is available. That's the model world, some are good some aren't. If one likes the subject they make do, they make it better. I don't think there is a problem with the box, the whole point of sales is to make the product look more appealing than it may or may not be. And according to the email it's a hot seller, so I would guess the majority are fine with it.

Yes, us as experienced modelers make do all the time... thats what the hobby is. And if I wanted that camaro I certainly would buy it and make it better... but you are still missing the point.

 "I don't think there is a problem with the box, the whole point of sales is to make the product look more appealing than it may or may not be"

So, I could put a turd in a box and as long as I showed a person holding it like a candy bar on the boxart that's ok because it looks better than what it is?

Because a fast food burger looks fantastic in a commercial then looks like it got ran over by a steamroller when you get it, that's ok?

Seems I've got some stuff I need to sell you...🤑

Legal and "right" aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Justin Porter]

4 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

They are equal in the manner I stated, they are both snap kits that aren't labeled as snap kits. Accuracy, proportion and detail are different arguments. There are tons of glue kits where all chassis detail is molded in, where the incorrect year interior is used, etc. 

It's no use to attempt to deflect from THIS kit's faults by pointing that other kits also have faults. "Whatabout-isms" only distract from the matter at hand which is that Revell has released an archaic kit with known issues and with packaging that doesn't at all indicate that this is vintage tooling and the customer should not have modern expectations of it. 

The frustration is that Revell HAS in the past used branding, box style, and box art to successfully indicate older tooling reissues that exist primarily for nostalgia. The SSP program successfully re-issued primitive kits like the old Pontiac Club De Mer or Tom Daniels Surf Shark to positive approval without disappointing customers. Even as I stated earlier in this thread, the Monogram '55 Chevy Street Machine is back in a Revell box but with "Monogram" helpfully stamped on the front to indicate this is an old Monogram kit and shouldn't be compared to something like their modern '57 Ford Gasser or Moebius's Chevy II. 

If Revell didn't have a demonstrable history of clearly indicating legacy reissues, it would be much like how the world collectively shrugs its shoulders when yet another 70's vintage Esci tool resurfaces in an Italeri box because no one expects clarity from Italeri.

[Tabbysdaddy]

50 minutes ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

Yes, us as experienced modelers make do all the time... thats what the hobby is. And if I wanted that camaro I certainly would buy it and make it better... but you are still missing the point.

 "I don't think there is a problem with the box, the whole point of sales is to make the product look more appealing than it may or may not be"

So, I could put a turd in a box and as long as I showed a person holding it like a candy bar on the boxart that's ok because it looks better than what it is?

Because a fast food burger looks fantastic in a commercial then looks like it got ran over by a steamroller when you get it, that's ok?

Seems I've got some stuff I need to sell you...🤑

Legal and "right" aren't mutually exclusive.

 

There isn't a turd on the box, there's pictures of what you will find inside the box. The best possible version of what is in the box. If my food was smashed I would return it, which is still an option. 

[Tabbysdaddy]

49 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

It's no use to attempt to deflect from THIS kit's faults by pointing that other kits also have faults. "Whatabout-isms" only distract from the matter at hand which is that Revell has released an archaic kit with known issues and with packaging that doesn't at all indicate that this is vintage tooling and the customer should not have modern expectations of it. 

The frustration is that Revell HAS in the past used branding, box style, and box art to successfully indicate older tooling reissues that exist primarily for nostalgia. The SSP program successfully re-issued primitive kits like the old Pontiac Club De Mer or Tom Daniels Surf Shark to positive approval without disappointing customers. Even as I stated earlier in this thread, the Monogram '55 Chevy Street Machine is back in a Revell box but with "Monogram" helpfully stamped on the front to indicate this is an old Monogram kit and shouldn't be compared to something like their modern '57 Ford Gasser or Moebius's Chevy II. 

If Revell didn't have a demonstrable history of clearly indicating legacy reissues, it would be much like how the world collectively shrugs its shoulders when yet another 70's vintage Esci tool resurfaces in an Italeri box because no one expects clarity from Italeri.

The only deflection I see is coming from you. It isn't unreasonable to put more appealing box art on an old kit, it's done all the time. As I said above, it can be returned if you're not happy with it. A little research on the part of the buyer goes a long way. Buyer beware.

[Justin Porter]

5 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

The only deflection I see is coming from you. It isn't unreasonable to put more appealing box art on an old kit, it's done all the time. As I said above, it can be returned if you're not happy with it. A little research on the part of the buyer goes a long way. Buyer beware.

The question isn't at all as to whether or not older kits shouldn't be given appealing box art that presents the contents in a favorable light. Appealing advertising AND truth in advertising can and should cohabitate. Revell's SSP program and Round 2's current "Craftsman Plus" box callouts are perfect examples of this. 

[Tabbysdaddy]

21 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

The question isn't at all as to whether or not older kits shouldn't be given appealing box art that presents the contents in a favorable light. Appealing advertising AND truth in advertising can and should cohabitate. Revell's SSP program and Round 2's current "Craftsman Plus" box callouts are perfect examples of this. 

How much more truth in advertising do you need when there's actual photos of the model on the box? I hated boxes with drawings instead of pictures, you can't see what you're getting. Can't please everyone.

[LL3 Model Worx]

1 minute ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

How much more truth in advertising do you need when there's actual photos of the model on the box? I hated boxes with drawings instead of pictures, you can't see what you're getting. Can't please everyone.

Let me give you some visuals.

This camaro is in the same style box as this NEW TOOLED Porsche 911... BOTH sporting the SKILL LEVEL 4!  

The Z28 has less than 40 parts I think its 37 to be exact...

The porsche has 109!

but there were no mistakes made, and despite these boxes giving the most flattering optics, there is no discrepancy here when it comes to what's actually in the box.

So, are you supposed to open the Z28 and be happy, and then be completely mind blown and overjoyed to open the porsche kit?

Sure we could get into the fine print and find a bit more truth, but who actually does that?

Or are you gonna open the Z28, feel like you have been ripped off, and then open the porsche kit to find what you already expected and feel normal?

Something doesn't jive 😵‍💫

Defending this practice is just plain bad.

 

 

[Tabbysdaddy]

10 minutes ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

Let me give you some visuals.

This camaro is in the same style box as this NEW TOOLED Porsche 911... BOTH sporting the SKILL LEVEL 4!  

The Z28 has less than 40 parts I think its 37 to be exact...

The porsche has 109!

but there were no mistakes made, and despite these boxes giving the most flattering optics, there is no discrepancy here when it comes to what's actually in the box.

So, are you supposed to open the Z28 and be happy, and then be completely mind blown and overjoyed to open the porsche kit?

Sure we could get into the fine print and find a bit more truth, but who actually does that?

Or are you gonna open the Z28, feel like you have been ripped off, and then open the porsche kit to find what you already expected and feel normal?

Something doesn't jive 😵‍💫

Defending this practice is just plain bad.

 

 

You should probably show all sides of the box before making that argument. Both have the parts count clearly listed. The skill level? I always thought that was a joke. Nothing ever added up with that.

[LL3 Model Worx]

6 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

You should probably show all sides of the box before making that argument. Both have the parts count clearly listed. The skill level? I always thought that was a joke. Nothing ever added up with that.

Well I'm glad YOU made the determination to dismiss the skill level...

And as I stated in my previous post. Yes, both list the parts count on the side of the box in fine print... there'd nothing on the front of the box, ya know the part that everyone sees on the shelf, that makes a distinction between the type of kit.

If it had a little blurb in the corner that said Snap tite or Snapper or EZ build or literally anything that would get that point across it would be totally fine!

But they didn't do that... and thats where I'll leave it.

If you don't understand by now, we just have to agree to disagree.

[Tabbysdaddy]

22 minutes ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

Well I'm glad YOU made the determination to dismiss the skill level...

And as I stated in my previous post. Yes, both list the parts count on the side of the box in fine print... there'd nothing on the front of the box, ya know the part that everyone sees on the shelf, that makes a distinction between the type of kit.

If it had a little blurb in the corner that said Snap tite or Snapper or EZ build or literally anything that would get that point across it would be totally fine!

But they didn't do that... and thats where I'll leave it.

If you don't understand by now, we just have to agree to disagree.

Yes, I always dismiss the skill level when I read all six sides of the box to get an idea of what's inside the box.

[Dpate]

Yeah there are a lot of folks that will buy kits just based off the box art let alone read the side or back of the box.  Basing a kit off it box art is like basing mc Donald's burger off there commercials - like yeah def not gonna look like that lol.  But here is the same truck kit someone else posted just a different box art, and i bought this kit when i first got into the hobby.  Doesn't say snap tight or snap kit any where on the box and with a level 4.  Level 4 and 5 are high parts count and that's what i assume of the kit when i see those numbers without look at the side of the box. But they did make up for it with the level 5 version they released shown in the 2nd picture.  Revell did a bait & switch and false advertising because they know there will be more folks that will accept it as is compared to the number of folks who will catch the bait & switch and talk about it. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

Bottom line the information is on the box side.  Shouldn't be that hard to read it.

In this age of information there is no reason to assume. If you are buying online items have reviews of the items purchased.

Finally if you aren't happy with an item then return it.