scratch detailing. any pointers?

[noname]

I'm always scratchbuilding and trying to add extra detail to my builds. However; I find it very difficult to work with such tiny pieces. Nuts made out of hex styrene that are less than a mm in size (really hard to glue), scratch building throttle linkage, seat belt buckles made from stryene or pop cans. It drives me nuts and I'm wondering how some of you do it or are most of you just opting for aftermarket parts now. Any advice/ comments?

Edited April 23, 2009 by noname

[E St. Kruiser50]

  noname said:

I'm always scratchbuilding and trying to add extra detail to my builds. However; I find it very difficult to work with such tiny pieces. Nuts made out of hex styrene that are less than a mm in size (really hard to glue), scratch building throttle linkage, seat belt buckles made from stryene or pop cans. It drives me nuts and I'm wondering how some of you do it or are most of you just opting for aftermarket parts now. Any advice/ comments?

Hey Mathew

Each didcipline has a learing curve, not just in the building , but in out mindset's and how we think, especially when we meet a new challange and it makes our stomach's churn' or our heads hurt.

Most of us have a natural resistance when we meet something new and overwhelming.

I've learned over time not to let these feelings influence me to not move forward. I think we all feel those "sorta walls", that we run up against, but have to push through them and practice 'til we get it right, as MR> OBSESSIVE would say - PRACTICE PRACTICE AND MORE PRACTICE is great advise, and each thing you try and go through, they will always get better and easier, by my experience.

Scratch-building to me is by far the most dificult of discipline's, but by far for me the most rewarding.

There is no timeline for me when I build.

Perfection in my own mind is the goal, and being that's a "relative term", is always different in each different person's mind.

Sometime's it takes me 5 or 10 years to build a car, but so what - It get's done eventually - and that's MY goal.

[noname]

Thanks for the reply Treehugger Dave. I'm not even thinking about giving up. In fact I'm planning a couple of curbsides just for ease and fun. But the little tiny things is what gets me. Putting fuel lines on a fuel injection with little throttle linkages, adding details that involve a nut that is less than a mm insize etc.. These sorts of things I find difficult to do. I was wondering if anybody has found any tools etc. that might make working on such itsy bitsy things more easy?

When I first got back into the hobby about a couple of years ago I saw all these people using aftermarket parts. I thought it was expensive for one but also I thought it to be more skillful to scratch build everything. Now I can see me buying more aftermarket parts just to make my builds go a little smoother. You know, like seat belts buckles , headers flanges ,maybe some pE nuts. But... I won't buy everthing aftermarket because it would be very expensive and too easy.

I like to hear some tricks people have found to make the tiny details more managable. I'd also like to hear other people's thoughts on aftermarket vs scratchbuilding. Or should this whole thread be in the "General" section?

[Foxer]

I'm probably near the same point and of the same mind as you. I find it extremely difficult to build anything without jumping on the details.. adding all this stuff that isn't there. I keep saying I'll just do a strictly kit build for fun, but keep finding my fun is always with the scratch built added details.

I've been going nutso recently on an old Plymouth 6 engine build. Been fabing a lot of the components. I've been finding my best friend is the pieces of wire I've been using as handles and, in the end, as connecting pins. I first glue them in at a long enough length that it becomes a handle. The carpet monster has been on a diet since I started this. The parts also feel like that they went up a scale as far as handling goes.

This is a pretty simple thing, but it's my trick to handle these parts. The long wires also mane nic epaint stands as can be seen below. eheh

Now I have to figure how I'm gonna glue this jar of .02 and .03 hex rod sliced bolts..

Edited April 24, 2009 by Foxer

[Guest Davkin]

For applying small pieces such as the hex rod slices you are talking about I usually use a product called "Pic-n-stic" I purchased from Micromark;

http://www.micromark.com/PIC-N-STICK,7467.html

It's basically just plastic sticks with a sticky wax-like substance on the end. However I don't use them as is because they are really too large. I transfer a small amount of the wax-like substance to the end of a toothpick and use that to grab hold of whatever tiny piece I need to glue to the model. That method has been a lifesaver for installing Grand Line hex bolt castings. I just touch the tool to the head of the hold, dip the end of the bolt in a small pool of thick CA then stick the bolt into the pre-drilled hole, touch a small drop of accelerator to the area then remove the tool.

As for the other stuff, well the question is just too general, makes it hard to answer. Every problem usually requires it's own technique.

David

[noname]

Those are both great tips guys, thanks.

[Steven Zimmerman]

You know,scratchbuilding is GREAT,and anyone who knows me also knows I do a lot of it.....BUT.....why make tiny bolt heads out of plastic when a photo etched set is cheap(what,200 or so bolt heads and washers for about 8 bucks?) and the photo etch looks so much more real than any you can make,unless you are going to paint or weather them. I feel the same way about seat belt buckles,you can get a photo etch fret of those for under ten smackers,and they have maybe 20 sets on them? Remember the old adage,Nothing looks like metal-like metal? I make my own dash gage trim from aluminium tubing,but again those 'wizard of O's photo etch stuff is cheap and easy to work with. Did you ever try to make 8 injector stacks with flared bell ends from aluminium tubing,and get them all exactly alike?(shut up, Dudek...GRIN)....Without a lathe,its pretty near impossible,or you're a better man than I am......I guess I'm startin to ramble,so I'll shut up...........the'Z'man........

[Foxer]

  Steven Zimmerman said:

You know,scratchbuilding is GREAT,and anyone who knows me also knows I do a lot of it.....BUT.....why make tiny bolt heads out of plastic when a photo etched set is cheap(what,200 or so bolt heads and washers for about 8 bucks?) and the photo etch looks so much more real than any you can make,unless you are going to paint or weather them. I feel the same way about seat belt buckles,you can get a photo etch fret of those for under ten smackers,and they have maybe 20 sets on them? Remember the old adage,Nothing looks like metal-like metal? I make my own dash gage trim from aluminium tubing,but again those 'wizard of O's photo etch stuff is cheap and easy to work with. Did you ever try to make 8 injector stacks with flared bell ends from aluminium tubing,and get them all exactly alike?(shut up, Dudek...GRIN)....Without a lathe,its pretty near impossible,or you're a better man than I am......I guess I'm startin to ramble,so I'll shut up...........the'Z'man........

I'm taking the bite on the the hex bolts, Steve. I have a project I need to get some representation for engine bolts down. I do have some P-E heads and they do look great in plan. The problem I had is they are way too thin .. a problem that doesn't occur very much in our hobby! A typical P-E fret is around .006 or 1/8" at 1/25 scale. A general rule of thumb with nuts is they are close to the bolt size in thickness. So a 1/2" nut would be 1/2" thick. I'm sure there are instances where these P-E shapes would look good, but they seem just too thin to be a flange bolt or something on an engine.

I did attempt slicing some small plastic hex rod ... .02 and .03 ... the right scale size but was so small the hex shape wasn't even visible. Maybe this is a case where appearance over scale is correct and a larger size is warranted.

[noname]

I've noticed the same thing. PE nuts are way too thin. Cutting hex shaped rod ( which is not easy in itself with such small sizes) is not easily seen by the naked eye. But moving up a size or two can look odd I have noticed on other's builds. It's the same if the wires and hoses are to big. Looks kinda goofy and toy like. I think the PE nuts probably look the best except from an above or side position. The actual miniature nuts and bolts available are very expensive so it seems the PE nuts are a better deal cost wise. Maybe one should get some of each and mix and match?

[E St. Kruiser50]

I enjoy fine detailing when I'm in the right mood.

For bolt heads, I use mini straight pins that I get in a package at JoAnns fabric shop.

Their chrome and so I just use a mini file to do the hex shape. Takes a while, but sure looks real when done.

Chuck up a mini-drill, make a hole, snip the pin to the length you want, and "Slide 'er in" .

[Steven Zimmerman]

For realistic bolt heads and nuts,try the Grandt line(hope I spelled that correctly) plastic injection molded stuff......most of it comes on a 'post' you trim and drop right into your drilled hole..............'Z'

[Foxer]

  Treehugger Dave said:

I enjoy fine detailing when I'm in the right mood.

For bolt heads, I use mini straight pins that I get in a package at JoAnns fabric shop.

Their chrome and so I just use a mini file to do the hex shape. Takes a while, but sure looks real when done.

Chuck up a mini-drill, make a hole, snip the pin to the length you want, and "Slide 'er in" .

Any suggestions on how to go about the filing so all the faces are even? I do do a lot of filing by eye, but wondering if you have any tricks? Well. I suppose your shop has a machine to do this! lets see, 2 swipes with fine file at a perfect 90 degrees to base. Rotate pin 60 degrees and 2 more file swipes, Rotate pin 60 degrees..

I can see where these would look great. Just probing Obie-Ka-Dave-San for any tricks

[E St. Kruiser50]

  Foxer said:

Any suggestions on how to go about the filing so all the faces are even? I do do a lot of filing by eye, but wondering if you have any tricks? Well. I suppose your shop has a machine to do this! lets see, 2 swipes with fine file at a perfect 90 degrees to base. Rotate pin 60 degrees and 2 more file swipes, Rotate pin 60 degrees..

I can see where these would look great. Just probing Obie-Ka-Dave-San for any tricks

WELL, YOU COULD USE CALIPER'S TO MEASURE EACH....... NOT !!

I do like you do - I JUST EYEBALL IT ( Shhhhh - don't tell anybody - VEWY SEEKWATIVE STUFF )

Edited April 25, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[Foxer]

  Steven Zimmerman said:

For realistic bolt heads and nuts,try the Grandt line(hope I spelled that correctly) plastic injection molded stuff......most of it comes on a 'post' you trim and drop right into your drilled hole..............'Z'

I been looking at Grandt line hex bolts and looks like ones they list as .026" might be right. Not sure how the measure them, across flats or at the points. This would be close to a nut for a 3/8" bolt.. Guess I'll have to find some.