Fall of the Automobile, Rise of the Appliance

[Harry P.]

Theoretically, sure, but tell dumb Ol Me how to make hydrogen without buying it or some expensive equipment to make it, that needs power to make it, and likely will need servicing and repair. If hydrogen does become the fuel of choice you KNOW that someone will make a pile of dough off of it. I'm just saying.

I have no problem with anyone making a pile of dough off hydrogen. In fact, I applaud it. That's how capitalism and the free market are supposed to work.

But the fundamental difference between an oil-based transportation industry and a hydrogen-based one is this: In an oil-based system, the supply is limited. It only exists in certain areas, only exists in certain finite quantities, and is under the direct control of a relative handful of big companies and OPEC, who basically decide how much oil will ultimately be available on the open market. The vast majority of people are under the control of a small but powerful minority who have the "keys" to the system.

With hydrogen, the supply is limitless and available to anyone with the know-how and the financing to market it. The fact that hydrogen can't be controlled by any one group means that competition will be in play. There won't just be a handful of "Big Hydrogen" companies, there could not be a hydrogen OPEC... no cartel that "owns" the hydrogen supplies, because the supply is limitless and available to all. That's the real beauty of hydrogen power.

[old-hermit]

tell dumb Ol Me how to make hydrogen

Heres a start ...

http://www.thehydrogencompany.com/products...tegory-106.html

http://www.geocities.com/aardduck/fc_companies.html

[Ramcharger]

I find it interesting that the conversation has shifted from styling and why American cars don't sell to why American cars are really better. GM could make the best car in the world, but if it doesn't sell, it doesn't matter. Why don't American cars sell? Simple, they are not making what the public wants and they haven't for years. Poor management has caused a loss of faith in them, and let's face it, we are no longer a car culture. Cars are just a way to get places for most people. You can argue how great the new Mustang, Challenger and Camaro are, but unless you buy one the car companies don't care. Notice I said YOU, not how well they are selling nationwide. Without laying down some green, you "ain't got a dog in this fight." BTW, I drive my cars till they are junk, so car companies really don't care what I think. All of the discussion about alt fuels and quality mean nothing unless you're buying. You can also argue all you want about styling, but American cars are bland and ugly and don't sell. If that weren't true we wouldn't be bailing them out with our tax dollars. Just my .02!

[MrObsessive]

You can also argue all you want about styling, but American cars are bland and ugly and don't sell. If that weren't true we wouldn't be bailing them out with our tax dollars. Just my .02!

Thank you Ron!

That was thrust of my original intent as to why I started the thread. One simple change such as perhaps wheelbase placement MIGHT make the American front drivers more appealing, and not the same 'ol, same 'ol we've been fed for nearly 30 years now.

American cars USED to stand out because of their styling...........now why should anyone care if they're just following along and not leading?

[FujimiLover]

The older I get, the more I appreciate the classic's. Wether it be classic rock'n'roll music, or classic hot-rods.

Yet, I do appreciate technology and I am very fond of our hybrids.

Yes we like what we like, but we should also appreciate what we need.

Speaking of which, whatever happend to the round futuristic egg-shaped concept cars we thought we would've had by now?

Everything these day's seem to be more boxy, and/or pointy. Not so round, elegant, and "CARS OF THE FUTURE" look!

Love my Insight!

Edited September 8, 2009 by FujimiLover

[old-hermit]

Speaking of which, whatever happend to the round futuristic egg-shaped concept cars we thought we would've had by now?

The original Egg Shaped Car

[Art Anderson]

Theoretically, sure, but tell dumb Ol Me how to make hydrogen without buying it or some expensive equipment to make it, that needs power to make it, and likely will need servicing and repair. If hydrogen does become the fuel of choice you KNOW that someone will make a pile of dough off of it. I'm just saying.

Andy,

Producing the hydrogen isn't the issue, rather it's the infrastructure for producing and delivering it. Already in testing is a method of producing hydrogen by wetting aluminum "foil" that is made with an alloy of aluminum and a very common metal (can't remember which one), which makes the aluminum very corrodable in water. The result of aluminum reacting with water are three things, hydrogen and aluminum oxide (which can be re-smelted back into aluminum again) and the small amount of the metal used to contaminate the aluminum to begin with. Aluminum is the most plentiful metal on the surface of this planet, from my read of the articles talking about this process. It appears that this concept has a lot of promise. As aluminum smelting is done with electric furnaces, air pollution can be controlled at the power source as well, hydroelectric, even nuclear.

This process is under development at that Big Ten University right across town from me.

Art

[Art Anderson]

I have no problem with anyone making a pile of dough off hydrogen. In fact, I applaud it. That's how capitalism and the free market are supposed to work.

But the fundamental difference between an oil-based transportation industry and a hydrogen-based one is this: In an oil-based system, the supply is limited. It only exists in certain areas, only exists in certain finite quantities, and is under the direct control of a relative handful of big companies and OPEC, who basically decide how much oil will ultimately be available on the open market. The vast majority of people are under the control of a small but powerful minority who have the "keys" to the system.

With hydrogen, the supply is limitless and available to anyone with the know-how and the financing to market it. The fact that hydrogen can't be controlled by any one group means that competition will be in play. There won't just be a handful of "Big Hydrogen" companies, there could not be a hydrogen OPEC... no cartel that "owns" the hydrogen supplies, because the supply is limitless and available to all. That's the real beauty of hydrogen power.

Lost in all the discussion of oil production seems to be, the sheer cost involved in finding new sources for petroleum, and developing fields that are found. BP just announced a new find in the Gulf of Mexico, and they spent nearly a billion dollars to find that, given that it's under roughly 4000 feet of water, and about 250 miles from the US Gulf Coast.

Face it, the days are over when a J Paul Getty or an HL Hunt could go prospecting for crude oil on what was literally a shoestring, the cheap oil has pretty much been found.

Art

[Harold]

What about all the stupid triangular tail lights framing the deckilid. Case in point- the new Impala. They had a nice, distinctive 'poor man's Skyline' look about it (especially with the body colored panel). Now, it's another 'me too' design with the same, stupid triangular tail lights. And what's with these horrid head and tail light assemblies that encroach halfway up the fender line. And for really great braille- inspired design, how about those stupid backwards wheel openings on the Colorado pickup? As I've said before, postmodernism and automobiles don't mix.