Alclad Fail

[Ben]

I have never sprayed Alclad before but I have done a lot of research on it. Well, the time came for me to try it out and I failed! My boss wanted me to paint a plastic cover on the top of the tongue jack of his show car trailer that was about 4" X 4" X 2" tall. The painter at the shop sprayed the piece with gloss black (I think it was enamel, i'm not sure?) and then sprayed it with clear coat. After it was dry, I used my airbrush (Badger 150) and sprayed the Alclad Chrome on in VERY light coats. Air was set at about 15psi.

Even with a super light coat, it just looked like silver dots on the surface? I tried another light coat and it just started getting worse to where it just looked like silver paint? It never had the "chrome" look to it at all. Needless to say, I was pretty embarrassed after bragging how good it would look and all the guys watching me paint it.

Now I have some model parts that I need to spray with the Alclad but i'm scared they will turn out the same way.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Pete1980]

Ive not sprayed this either but im curious, you said he sprayed it with gloss black then clear.I think the trick would to use there base coat which happens to be gloss black.Try there color and no clear I belive the two colors react to each other.

[Bruno]

I use black automotive basecoat et then urethane clearcoat, let it dry and then spray alclad with very good results. I don't think the clearcoat the painter sprayed is the problem (what type of clear did he use?)

If it looks like silver dots, I would say not enough air pressure or a bad alclad (too thick, maybe the cap wasn't closed correctly and the paint got too thick?) Alclad should be as liquid as water. Take a look at this tutorial maybe it will help;

[Modelmartin]

Almost sounds like a nozzle problem - clogging? Perhaps your air pressure is too low. I go with 15 lbs when the trigger is pressed down so I get an actual 15 flowing. In my experience any glossy black paint is fine. I have used lacquer and enamel. If you use a blue basecoat it lokks a little more chromey. Try again on scrap pieces. It is heavily dependent on developing technique.

[Karmodeler2]

Ben,

As you will see, there are as many techniques to apply this stuff as there are modelers on this forum. However, this paint is a MODEL paint and will not stand up to the harsh elements or have the UV stabilizers in it to contend with the element of weather. I got the feeling you were using this on a 1:1 trailer hitch. Also, I use a different technique and I disagree with the 15 psi. I use 4 to 5 psi and mist it on. I have written about this and you can find it under tips and techniques on this forum on the link below.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26234

Good Luck.

David

[Ben]

Ben,

As you will see, there are as many techniques to apply this stuff as there are modelers on this forum. However, this paint is a MODEL paint and will not stand up to the harsh elements or have the UV stabilizers in it to contend with the element of weather. I got the feeling you were using this on a 1:1 trailer hitch. Also, I use a different technique and I disagree with the 15 psi. I use 4 to 5 psi and mist it on. I have written about this and you can find it under tips and techniques on this forum on the link below.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26234

Good Luck.

David

Hey David, yes it was being applied to a 1:1 trailer jack piece. I didn't have any idea if it would hold up to outdoor use or not. We were just going to try it and see what happened.

I was also getting spitting and splatering (a small amount) from my airbrush so I was leary of reducing the pressure. I was using the medium needle with a brand new medium crown tip.

[Ben]

Another thing I would like to add is that this Alclad is several years old but it has not evaporated any in the bottle and I did shake it very well before using. I did not use any thinner to reduce it. I sprayed it directly from the bottle.

[Karmodeler2]

Hey David, yes it was being applied to a 1:1 trailer jack piece. I didn't have any idea if it would hold up to outdoor use or not. We were just going to try it and see what happened.

I was also getting spitting and splatering (a small amount) from my airbrush so I was leary of reducing the pressure. I was using the medium needle with a brand new medium crown tip.

Ben,

I'm not sure how comfortable you are with your airbrush and how far apart you are willing to take it, but I break my gun down ALL the way, clean it, (pipe cleaners, q-tips, and lacquer thinner) and put it back together almost every time I use it. Especially for Alclad chrome. And they do make a clear for it to keep it from rubbing off, but I have never used it. I make sure the parts are the last thing to go one and I handle them with gloves. You might be better off using the largest tip/cone combo for your gun instead of the smallest or medium range one. The chrome itself is so thin, it should be like water and therefore go through the gun pretty easy.

Hope this helps.

David

[Ben]

Hey David, I disassemble my gun as far as possible and clean everything with lacquer thinner just like you said. I just bought that medium crown regulator as I had been told that the medium setup was the one that is used the most for overall coverage. I'd have to buy the large setup to try it.

The Alclad appears to be the consistancy of milk which is what i've always heard is what your wanting when spraying through an airbrush?

I'm going to take another shot at it tomorrow and try all the suggestions you guys have given. I really appreciate the help!

[Ben]

I just disassembled the gun and all the parts (other than the main body with air valve and the small teflon "o" ring) are soaking in lacquer thinner. Where do you get pipe cleaners small enough to slide through the tiny holes in the gun?

[Gregg]

Alclad has to be shot over the black, NO CLEAR!!!!

I am doing a review on a new spray can chrome, from Spaz Stix, found at my local R/C hobby shop.

I think you can spray this over a cleared black.

I will let you know.

Tests still in progress.

[Ben]

I had the painter shoot the clear onto the part because I had read somewhere that some were shooting clear over the black base coat to make it as glossy as possible?

I was thinking that the black itself could still be seen so the chrome "effect" would still show through. Does the Alclad actually have to have a surface reaction to the black base coat?

The wheels i'm going to try next were stripped, primed and the painted with Tamiya spray black and that's it, no clear of any type.

[Fuel Coupe]

Couple of things may have caused it to speck on you. Being too far away from your subject and an odd one I found when building my Pisano car.

I was getting inconsistent finishes and could not figure out what was happening. The air nozzle had a small flap of dried paint that I missed (external mix) that wiggled when air was introduced but without air it laid flat being almost impossible to see. once I figured it out and removed it I started getting good finishes with alclad again...

[Bruno]

I had the painter shoot the clear onto the part because I had read somewhere that some were shooting clear over the black base coat to make it as glossy as possible?

Yes you want the black to be as glossy as possible to get the best chrome effect with alclad. The parts can be cleared before applying alclad, I do it all the time.

Does the Alclad actually have to have a surface reaction to the black base coat?

No.

[Bruno]

The wheels i'm going to try next were stripped, primed and the painted with Tamiya spray black and that's it, no clear of any type.

If the black is nice and glossy, then you can go ahead and spray alclad right over it.

[Ben]

Couple of things may have caused it to speck on you. Being too far away from your subject and an odd one I found when building my Pisano car.

I was getting inconsistent finishes and could not figure out what was happening. The air nozzle had a small flap of dried paint that I missed (external mix) that wiggled when air was introduced but without air it laid flat being almost impossible to see. once I figured it out and removed it I started getting good finishes with alclad again...

Hey Shane, I was thinking there may be a tiny bit of dried paint in the gun so I disasesembled it and the pieces have been soaking in lacquer thinner since last night.

I ran a small piece of wire through all the holes as well to make sure all was clear. I'm going to try it again today when it warms up outside.

[E St. Kruiser50]

For all of you out there new to Alclad products, this is not a product that is unique to the modeling industry, but a product used for commercial purposes years before it was introduced as Alclad II.

There are several manufacturing companies who have been marketing this same product in the auto paint industry for years.

Also, Alclad is not a lacquer-based product, but a alcohol/acetone-based product, and that's why it can be sprayed over lacquers, enamels, and auto urethanes - AND IT CAN BE SPRAYED OVER CLEAR.

I've been using it since it came out, but have also used other manufacturers identical products, with identical results.

All of them are very good products, and work great for our modeling needs when used properly.

For optimum results they have to be sprayed under the right conditions, with the right equipment, with the right settings. There are several here who get great results, even though we all do it a bit differently.

I'll post the thread I did on Alclad II some time ago.

Here's some pic's of two cars that have won major awards up and down the west coast, Calif. Oregon, Wash., and 1st at SALT LAKE, and been in many mags a few years back, not mentioned to brag, but to validate the quality of the product and when used properly can give very high quality results in competition.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[Ben]

For all of you out there new to Alclad products, this is not a product that is unique to the modeling industry, but a product used for commercial purposes years before it was introduced as Alclad II.

There are several manufacturing companies who have been marketing this same product in the auto paint industry for years.

Also, Alclad is not a lacquer-based product, but a alcohol/acetone-based product, and that's why it can be sprayed over lacquers, enamels, and auto urethanes - AND IT CAN BE SPRAYED OVER CLEAR.

I've been using it since it came out, but have also used other manufacturers identical products, with identical results.

All of them are very good products, and work great for our modeling needs when used properly.

For optimum results they have to be sprayed under the right conditions, with the right equipment, with the right settings. There are several here who get great results, even though we all do it a bit differently.

I'll post the thread I did on Alclad II some time ago.

Here's some pic's of two cars that have won major awards up and down the west coast, Calif. Oregon, Wash., and 1st at SALT LAKE, and been in many mags a few years back, not mentioned to brag, but to validate the quality of the product and when used properly can give very high quality results in competition.

Wow! Those are stunning!!!!!!!!!!! What parts have the Alclad on them?

[E St. Kruiser50]

All the major pieces Ben. Trans., suspension, exhaust, and other smaller parts. Probably close to a 100 pieces Alcladed in the two models.

These two models have a combined 3000+ hours of building, and over 3000 pieces, that's why I used a good quality product like Alclac II.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[Ben]

All the major pieces Ben. Trans., suspension, exhaust, and other smaller parts. Probably close to a 100 pieces Alcladed in the two models.

These two models have a combined 3000+ hours of building, and over 3000 pieces, that's why I used a good quality product like Alclac II.

Really beautiful work!

[Ben]

I just noticed something when I reassembled my airbrush. I tried to blow air through it where the hose connects (with my mouth) while pressing the trigger down and nothing came out no matter how hard I tried! I took the crown regulator off and the air flows freely? I put the crown regulator bac in and trid moving the needle further back, made no difference? I then compared the center hole with the regulator that came with the gun and the crown hole is smaller? It appears that this crown regulator is for the small or "fine" set up?

I know on the needles there are ribs on the back end that tell if its small medium or large but how do you know on the regulator, head and tip?

[Ben]

Ok, I just painted a couple wheels using the regulator tip that came with the airbrush and got much better results!!!! They actually look chrome!

I'm still getting some spitting from my airbrush but I have a feeling it's my air supply. The air regulator i'm using is a cheapy and I have to bleed off the excess air pressure with the gun before I point it at the part and pull the trigger back for paint to flow.

I'm going to look into a better air regulator.

[Gregg]

Dave, from my conversations with Alan who "reinvented" Alclad back in 2001 or so, Alclad 2 is a lacquer-based paint.

That is how the effect of chrome is created.

It's the reaction of the lacquer "chrome" with the base gloss black that creates the chrome finish.

Usually an enamel worked best before, but with the "new" Tamiya aerosal paints that came out, they worked quite well also.

You can also create your own Alclad.

This comes from dear friend, Mark Guerrero.

Just use Testor's Silver Chrome, thin it with lacquer thinner (hardware store kind), and spray over gloss enamel.

This is what he uses, and you'd swear it was chrome or even Alclad.

Tony has a web site: http://www.alclad2.com

[MikeMc]

Alclad has to be shot over the black, NO CLEAR!!!!

I am doing a review on a new spray can chrome, from Spaz Stix, found at my local R/C hobby shop.

I think you can spray this over a cleared black.

I will let you know.

Tests still in progress.

Bob Downie did this test a while back ..on spoons

http://public.fotki.com/grdeyed/model_cars-1/chrome-test/

curious if the spray is better or??

[mountaindewd]

The Alclad appears to be the consistancy of milk

Ben,

This doesn't sound right to me. This may be the reason you are experiencing the spattering, your Alclad is too thick. A higher psi may eliminate this problem. The Alclad I have is the consistency of water or closer to, like Dave said, alcohol. It is very thin. Also, I have read where others have said they set their airbrush in the 10psi+- range. I don't know the psi of my brush, but have always gotten good results from the first time I used Alclad(chrome and polished aluminum). You may consider purchasing a new bottle to compare.

Edited January 1, 2010 by mountaindewd