Harbor Freight Mill

[CAL]

Need to find another machine. I am so done with those guys.

[Chas SCR]

Jet has a good small mill. When buying stuff like this remember its what you pay for!

[Lownslow]

check your warranty, i got a free grinder after the old one died

[CAL]

Jet has a good small mill. When buying stuff like this remember its what you pay for!

I have long and hard. I also read up on as much as I could. The conclusion was the HF mill was pretty good with a little work for the money. The tool isn't the problem HF is.

I found another, looks just like the Jet machine, less money, but much more than the HF machine. Apperently the same machine is sold under a dozen different names.

The HF machine just doen't exsist and it took two weeks to get a honest answer out of them.

Edited February 20, 2010 by CAL

[jbwelda]

thats why its often referred to as harbor fraud. typically youre lucky if what you buy there lasts for one iteration of the job you bought it for. on the other hand some of their stuff works. its kinda a crapshoot.

edit: oh so you never got the mill, just promises?

maybe count yourself lucky. dont try to save a few bucks, get a good piece but yeah youre right, often stuff is sold under different names for different prices. for instance i bought a compressor for inflating tires after deflating them for off road travel. if you bought this compressor at a 4wd store it was like 250$. then someone told me there was an identical one at pep boys for under 60. i was skeptical but yep it was exactly alike with same accessories except it didnt have a pan to set under it to keep dirt off it on the trail. i bought one and have been using it successfully for years. in this case it did pay to look for cheap.

Edited February 20, 2010 by jbwelda

[CAL]

thats why its often referred to as harbor fraud. typically youre lucky if what you buy there lasts for one iteration of the job you bought it for. on the other hand some of their stuff works. its kinda a crapshoot.

I agree, but I kind check anything out pretty well before buy their stuff so far the stuff I had bought has been fine.

Again it wasn't the machine it was HF that was the problem.

[Modelmartin]

We have a Harbor Freight retail store in Minneapolis so I can go look at the stuff first. Once when I was looking at a power washer, one of the employess warned me off of it!!! I said I only needed to use it a few times and the purchase price was almost the cost of a rental. He said it probably wouldn't even work once or twice!! I do get a few hand tools there that are a bargain and work pretty good - files, clamps, tape measures, etc. I would never buy their stuff sight unseen.

[Karmodeler2]

Now you might be one of the ones that will finally listen when I say Sherline is WORTH what you pay, they are here in the states, they can fix problems either with their machines or with how you bought it (from them) and they make accessories that fit their first machine from 1974.

But, you're right.

Harbor Freight is the way to go!!!

Yes, there is just a little sarcasm if you look close enough.

David

[CAL]

thats why its often referred to as harbor fraud. typically youre lucky if what you buy there lasts for one iteration of the job you bought it for. on the other hand some of their stuff works. its kinda a crapshoot.

edit: oh so you never got the mill, just promises?

maybe count yourself lucky. dont try to save a few bucks, get a good piece but yeah youre right, often stuff is sold under different names for different prices. for instance i bought a compressor for inflating tires after deflating them for off road travel. if you bought this compressor at a 4wd store it was like 250$. then someone told me there was an identical one at pep boys for under 60. i was skeptical but yep it was exactly alike with same accessories except it didnt have a pan to set under it to keep dirt off it on the trail. i bought one and have been using it successfully for years. in this case it did pay to look for cheap.

Yes, I got line and another and another and another.

That is kind what I have been trying to convience myself of: there was some reason it all went down like this. But It looks like I will get the same machine but it's going to cost a lot more. or a differnet machine that is also a lot more.

I am not doing anything heavy duty, most just plastic so I don't need an top of the line expensive machine.

Oh well, I am mad about how they handled to whole situation.

[CAL]

We have a Harbor Freight retail store in Minneapolis so I can go look at the stuff first. Once when I was looking at a power washer, one of the employess warned me off of it!!! I said I only needed to use it a few times and the purchase price was almost the cost of a rental. He said it probably wouldn't even work once or twice!! I do get a few hand tools there that are a bargain and work pretty good - files, clamps, tape measures, etc. I would never buy their stuff sight unseen.

I wouldn't either, we have local too, and I have checked out both their mill and lathe and it seems like are good enough for anything I would ever need to do.

Some minature machine guys have done a review on it and they really didn't have anything bad to say about. A few minor problems that were easily overcome or fixed. The bottom line it was a hard machine to beat for the money.

[CAL]

Now you might be one of the ones that will finally listen when I say Sherline is WORTH what you pay, they are here in the states, they can fix problems either with their machines or with how you bought it (from them) and they make accessories that fit their first machine from 1974.

But, you're right.

Harbor Freight is the way to go!!!

Yes, there is just a little sarcasm if you look close enough.

David

Yeah, well I am considering it, since I am now looking at machines that are coming within a hundred bucks or so of a Sherline. It looks so fragile and spindly though... I guess I need more time to figure it out.

I am looking at Shop Fox and Paxton as well.

[Chas SCR]

Jet and Shop Fox are the same just under two names but one main company. Also Blue Ridge Machinery out of WV, carries every thing you need for the mini Lathe and Mills. they also beat the price what every one els wants for there accessories. Also you can hook up a Grizzly C-N-C mother board to them and use there stuff or just buy out right a C-N-C with computer and Mill or Lathe combo.

[CAL]

Jet and Shop Fox are the same just under two names but one main company. Also Blue Ridge Machinery out of WV, carries every thing you need for the mini Lathe and Mills. they also beat the price what every one els wants for there accessories. Also you can hook up a Grizzly C-N-C mother board to them and use there stuff or just buy out right a C-N-C with computer and Mill or Lathe combo.

Okay here is where I am at. All three machines are the same, same spec, I am sure made at the same place, just a different name and color.

The HF was $219 non-existant They told me to pound sand basically after two weeks.

The Rutland Tool I can get shipped to my door for $369

The Jet machine is $500 + shipping

these are all MT2 spindles 9x5x6 work area I can't imagine going much smaller.

The little Shop Fox and Paxton are also $500 they are different than the above machine. Much smaller table and spindle. MT1

The Sherline is smaller yet, MT1 but table is smaller for $600 + shipping and would need to have some adds to make it practical. Many people have seemed to out grow this machine and needed to upgrade to bigger equipment.

I am thinking I might just go with the Ruland one. The only thing I don't like about it is the speed starts at 100 and not 0.

It got decent reviews at miniture machine shop.

[RyanSilva]

What happened to yours?

Time to turn it into a cnc machine ... few nema 23 stepper motors, hobbycnc controller..your pc, and a 36v powersupply..

I just bought a TAIG lathe.. and will be building my own CNC gantry setup too for milling plastic.

TAIG mills are great too, buy it from cartertools.com

[CAL]

What happened to yours?

Time to turn it into a cnc machine ... few nema 23 stepper motors, hobbycnc controller..your pc, and a 36v powersupply..

I just bought a TAIG lathe.. and will be building my own CNC gantry setup too for milling plastic.

TAIG mills are great too, buy it from cartertools.com

I ordered it paid for it never got it. Got the run-around for two weeks befor being finally told I will never get it, and I didn't get a sorry, ofter to try and get me into an alternate machine, nothing. I got a card TODAY, after I was told yesterday on the phone my order was canceled several days ago because the item was discontinued, that it was BO and be back in stock shortly.

A week passed and it had not shipped so I was getting a little concerned. And then Sunday night I noticed it was removed on the the website and marked as backoredered. A little while later it was removed altogether. I emailed them and was tolded the item was out of stock and would be back in later, but they could not say when.

I called yesterday and really had to press them for some answers and after the third person I talked to I finally got the truth that my order was canceled 4 days ago but nobody bothered to tell me even after inquiring about it's status. That's what pissed me off.

I will be buying a lathe too.

I looked at TAIG stuff same class mill is $800.

Edited February 20, 2010 by CAL

[RyanSilva]

Ah gotcha, I was thinking you had one and it burned up.

I paid 335 bucks for my lathe shipped, with everything but a motor. The money I saved with the motor I got the cross slide table.

If you look into the taig lathe, dont bother with their marathon 1/4 hp motor..its over priced.

Does the same work a sherline will for almost half the price.

Cartertools gives you 10% off the listed price of lathes and mills.

Edited February 20, 2010 by RyanSilva

[Chas SCR]

Cal here is the trouble when I was getting ready to buy a new one also. The accessories for any thing doing with the MT1 tail stock and such is a lot more pricey, more like double the price for what MT2. Also doing a part by part on a C-N-C will cause more trouble as I did this using the Unimate and there program was not very nice to the mother boards with the new computers as I burn up two of them in 8 months of having it. I sold what was left of the stuff and just gone out and pay'ed just under $2k for every thing. This is the Lathe and program and Computer all in one and it was also with fraight to my door step and setup for me from them. I'm very happy with what I have from Shop Fox!

You put the Jet in the same being made by the same people as Harber Fraight? NO Nothing from Jet will work with HF... Jet and Shop Fox will work together and for the money and getting stuff the only thing I can say I did wrong is with the lathe I did not pay extra $300 and gone with the next biggest one that takes the MT3 stuff as there is a lot more of it to work with and it cost a lot less then the MT2 stuff.

[CAL]

Cal here is the trouble when I was getting ready to buy a new one also. The accessories for any thing doing with the MT1 tail stock and such is a lot more pricey, more like double the price for what MT2. Also doing a part by part on a C-N-C will cause more trouble as I did this using the Unimate and there program was not very nice to the mother boards with the new computers as I burn up two of them in 8 months of having it. I sold what was left of the stuff and just gone out and pay'ed just under $2k for every thing. This is the Lathe and program and Computer all in one and it was also with fraight to my door step and setup for me from them. I'm very happy with what I have from Shop Fox!

You put the Jet in the same being made by the same people as Harber Fraight? NO Nothing from Jet will work with HF... Jet and Shop Fox will work together and for the money and getting stuff the only thing I can say I did wrong is with the lathe I did not pay extra $300 and gone with the next biggest one that takes the MT3 stuff as there is a lot more of it to work with and it cost a lot less then the MT2 stuff.

I have seen two Jet machines now.

one is exactly like the Shop Fox and the Paxton with the key pad front the other is exactly like the HF, Rutland machine.

Thanks for the input, this is helping me decide.

[CAL]

Well this is the machine I leaning towards.

https://www.shoprutlandtool.com/catalog/prestige-value-110v-1_5-hp-motor-1-180-_2mt-spindle-travel-taper-0-390-drill_mill-cap-9-45-x/26660700.html

I have seen it up close and person and it looks okay. It's had pretty good reviews if you do some basic stuff to it mainly cleaning it up. The only complaint was the the table slides are brittle and break, but they say if you just make up some new brass ones it's better than before.

It's a MT2 spindle and has a bigger table travel than most of the others micro mills.

The Paxxon is a collet type. The micro Shop Fox is a MT1 and only goes down to 5000 rpm.

The Sherline is nice but much smaller table travle and a MT1 It is very expensive after the adds to make it a practical machine and people out grow it, so it seems.

The TAIG looks really nice, like a bigger version of the Sherline, but comes with a much bigger price tag.

I am entertianing other recommendations, though.

I just need somewhere to start, figure things out, and upgrade to a nice machine later.

I don't mind spending a $1000 after I have some experience I know exaclty what I want in a machine then I will look for whatever that machine is.

But for now it looks like this might be the best bang for the buck until it wears out or can't do something I want it to do, but since I don't know what that might be yet. I don't what to lay down a ton of money on a nice machine that might not do what I want it too.

Plus as long as it doesn't completely self distruct resale on any of these machines is very strong. I haven't found any smoking deals even on used equipment.

BTW what size lathe did you get? I am looking at a 7X12

Edited February 20, 2010 by CAL

[Modelmartin]

Cal,

The prob with the mill/drill machines is that it will get frustrating controlling the Z axis after a while. I would go with the Sherline because it has a z feed with a leadscrew rather than a drill press handle. I hear you on the table size but I think the advantages of the Sherline outweigh the table size until you can get a Bridgeort EZ-Trak! Ya, right! those are $25,000+ new. I run a Cincinnatti CNC 20 x 40 at work and am supposed to finally get a CAM system this year. Oh Boy! There may be a few model car parts leaving the building in my lunchbox!

[CAL]

Cal,

The prob with the mill/drill machines is that it will get frustrating controlling the Z axis after a while. I would go with the Sherline because it has a z feed with a leadscrew rather than a drill press handle. I hear you on the table size but I think the advantages of the Sherline outweigh the table size until you can get a Bridgeort EZ-Trak! Ya, right! those are $25,000+ new. I run a Cincinnatti CNC 20 x 40 at work and am supposed to finally get a CAM system this year. Oh Boy! There may be a few model car parts leaving the building in my lunchbox!

Good call, this one does have a x lead screw you can just see the hand sticking up above.

Micro adjustable spindle downfeed

It is exactly like this Jet Machine.

http://www.amazon.com/JET-JHM-610-Hobby-Mill-Drill/dp/B001U0O56E/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_2_1

Edited February 21, 2010 by CAL

[BKIN10SECS]

Please, please do yourself a favor......go Sherline.

[CAL]

Please, please do yourself a favor......go Sherline.

Why? I used to think that, but it's way more expensive by time you get the machine upgrade and get enough accessories to use it you're well over $1000.

for example a rotory table for a sherline is $250 an standard 4" is $70.

You end up with a much smaller work space. I could get a Sherline but I have trouble finding value in it.

So please explain.

Edited February 21, 2010 by CAL

[Karmodeler2]

The HF machine just doen't exsist and it took two weeks to get a honest answer out of them.

I ordered it paid for it never got it. Got the run-around for two weeks befor being finally told I will never get it, and I didn't get a sorry, ofter to try and get me into an alternate machine, nothing. I got a card TODAY, after I was told yesterday on the phone my order was canceled several days ago because the item was discontinued, that it was BO and be back in stock shortly.

A week passed and it had not shipped so I was getting a little concerned. And then Sunday night I noticed it was removed on the the website and marked as backoredered. A little while later it was removed altogether. I emailed them and was tolded the item was out of stock and would be back in later, but they could not say when.

I called yesterday and really had to press them for some answers and after the third person I talked to I finally got the truth that my order was canceled 4 days ago but nobody bothered to tell me even after inquiring about it's status. That's what pissed me off.

Really? And you continue to ask "Why Sherline?"

You must be out of your mind. You would NEVER be treated like this by Craig or Joe at Sherline.

No, I'm not a spokesman for them, but I have their equipment and I just want to ask you a few questions, that when you think about the answer, may guide you in your choice of machine.

Do you think that something you bought in 1980, that was made in China, from a tool store that might still be around, would be able to get you accessories for your 1980 POS and they would still work or even fit your machine? Do you think you could call Customer Service (toll free) in China to get some help or tech support?

Do you want to have to buy a new machine in 10 -15 years because you can't get stuff to fit your particular set up from China?

Do you plan on machining planetary gears for real cars to race on a track?

Do you plan on machining parts for real cars at all?

Do you plan on doing model stuff only?

Miniature Machines are just that: miniature.

EVERY machine has it's limits. You will learn these as you learn your machine. If you are buying miniature lathes/mills to do full size stuff, then you are breaking the first rule of any job and that is: use the right tool for the right job.

Buying the machine does not make you a machinist. No tool out there will do that. It's time and experience as you well know.

BUT, if you want to get into it, and just machine stuff for fun, then buy the one that you think is the cheapest. If you are wanting to be a machinist and have the desire to become a great one, then I would not waste money on crappy equipment, only to realize that your equipment will limit your abilities. Regardless of what others say, the crappy equipment will not produce great results. (that is "great results" from a machinist standpoint, not a "non" machinist standpoint....there is a difference) IF you could buy crappy tools and have great results, you would see NASCAR teams using tools from K-mart and winning the race. Use common sense......that is not so common sometimes.

David

[CAL]

Hey look.

I know what a Sherline is and I know it’s great machine, but I have a hard time justifying spending twice the money or more on one.

I am not mass-producing anything, I just want to make a part every once and a while. I can appreciate good CS, but that is not work twice the money either.

The China machine is using all pretty standard stuff. MT2 spindle.

I need a starting place and if I need a $1000, $1500 or more expensive machine later down the road then I get it, but I have no reason to get a full blown $15,000.00 Sherline CNC because it’s the best thing to get.

I am not making any real car parts. I would never even consider making a real car part on a miniature machine.

It is strictly for hobby, model stuff, perhaps a RC helicopter part or two. Something to play around with, I have a pile of unfinished projects because really to finish the right the need a milled or turned part.

I have already been a machinist on full size Bridgeport and Kent equipment. So I understand quality differences on a machine.

If we were talking a modest price difference I could justify it, but double, and then double or more on every attatchment and accessory? That is where I am having trouble seeing value in a machine that's going to be idle more often than used.

It would be $2000 to get a 5100 deluxe and the 10" table and base or under $400 for similar Chinese machine. I would love to have a Sherline, but I can't justify spending $2000 on a hobby mill. Notwithstanding I need a lathe also, what's that anothing $2000. $4000 and no attachments no tooling, no measuring tools. It will be $10,000.00 real quick.

See my delima?

Edited February 21, 2010 by CAL