Key moments in auto history

[Junkman]

1957 Forward Look cars from Chrysler- these things sent GM back to the drawing boards.

1961 Lincoln Continental. Proof that a downsized luxury car could be a winning proposition.

1965 Mustang. 'Nuff said.

1958 Edsel. On the perils of consumer research.

1936 Cord 810. FWD, V-8, unit construction, retractable headlights and enough pizazz to make Buck Rogers envious.

1932 Ford V-8. Power to the people.

1908 Model T. The world gets a set of wheels.

1953 Studebaker Starliner/ Starlight. One of the greatest designs ever.

1951 Kaiser Manhattan. Darrin's masterpiece.

1962 GT Hawk. Brooks Stevens changed everything, yet changed nothing, on a shoestring budget.

1962 Avanti. Studebaker's last performance gasp.

1957- '59 Skyliner. A technological sideshow from the age of excess.

1983 Thunderbird. Proof that smaller cars does not mean unattractive cars.

1984 Continental Mk. VII. see above.

1993 Probe. Pure Design, along with its sister car, the Mazda 6.

1989 GM 'W' cars (Grand Prix, Regal and Cutlass). Same basic platform, each with a distinct look and personality.

Wow. I knew one can disagree with somebody's opinion, but I haven't yet realized how much one can disagree. On all accounts.

[Harry P.]

But'cha gotta admit, the Model T changed the automotive landscape, that's highly significant.

Yeah, the Model T was an automotive landmark. I think it's on just about everyone's list of milestone cars.

The question originally asked, though, was which cars were automotive milestones. Making cars affordable for the working man wasn't a milestone in automotive development; it was a milestone in business/marketing. Henry Ford had figured out how to build cars economically enough that he could sell cars at a price the average worker could afford... but the Model T itself had nothing to do with that, it was Ford business practices and manufacturing efficiencies that made that possible. Ford's methods would have worked regardless of the car they were building, the Model T just happened to be the car they were building then.

[Harry P.]

I guess we're arguing semantics here.

Yes, the Model T was a significant car, for all the reasons you mentioned. If it had sold for three times the price it would still have been a significant landmark automobile. And in fact in the beginning it did sell for about three times what it ultimately went for.

But bringing that price down... selling the cars at a price that the average family could afford, was in some ways related to the Model T itself, the Model T being a relatively simple car, with few parts and easy to assemble quickly and cheaply. But my point is that Ford's business practices would have worked regardless of whether the car they were building at the time was the T, the Model A, or any other car.

So I see the affordability of the T as a separate accomplishment, a business landmark; as opposed to the T itself, an automotive landmark.

Like I said, it depends on your definition of "cars would you say were instrumental in developing the automobile into what it is today"... as the post asks.

Ok, enough pontificating from me.

[Harry P.]

Ok, at this point I've forgotten the question...

The post asked which cars were significant in the development of the automobile. Everyone agrees the Model T belongs on the list. That was never in question.

Then someone said that pricing the T so that everyone could afford one should be on the "landmark" list... to which I answered, no... we're talking about landmark cars, not landmark business accomplishments.

To which someone said, but gee, dontcha have to admit the Model T was a significant car?

To which I said, yeah, we all already have agreed on that, but Ford figuring out how to sell cars cheaply is not an item that belongs on a list of landmark automobiles.

Well, that's about as clear as I can be without resorting to flip charts or other visual aids.

Your turn...

[Harry P.]

Personally I couldn't agree more, though I don't necessarily think the Model A, if brought out in 1909 at the same price point as the T, would have been quite industrial/agricultural enough to equal the T's success in the less-civilized parts of the country.

I guess that's a debate for another post...

[Harry P.]

I guess I'll just have to find a concours-restored A-bone and go find some dirt horse cart paths to drive down

I don't think you'd drive a concours-restored T down that dirt horsecart path either...

[Harry P.]

Wow! I hope you got out ok!

[Modelmartin]

The Yugo was a ripoff at $3990, don't forget, and even if you gave most people a new Lamborghini for free it wouldn't be suited for their needs. Price is a big factor, but not the only one.

I seem to remember in an old Car & Driver someone commenting on an issue where there were separate road tests of a Lambo and a Yugo. The optional wing on the Countach cost $4000. which was the same price as a Yugo. I think they suggested possibly mounting the Yugo on the back instead of the wing.

[Art Anderson]

OK, some specific cars, and the milestone they represent:

1903 and later Cadillac--the concept of completely interchangeable parts--as acknowledged when Cadillac won the prestigious Dewar Trophy for that very feature.

Packard in the horselss carriage era: The H-pattern gear shift, and popularizing, for all time in the US, left hand drive.

Duesenberg: The introduction in production from the start in 1921, 4-wheel hydraulic brakes. Making the modern DOHC engine a production reality in 1928-29 (the Model J). Popularizing the use of centrifugal supercharging, first at Indianapolis in 1924, then on production street cars in 1932 (the Model SJ). First car to use low pressure balloon tires, at Indianapolis in 1925.

Cadillac: The hydraulic valve tappet, on their superlative V16 in 1930, along with synchromesh. For introducing the driving public to independent "Short-Long Arm" front suspension in 1933 (they beat Mercedes Benz to this, doing their's independently of what Daimler Benz was working on, and simultaneously). The all steel turret top for closed cars, starting in 1935.

Dodge, in the late 'teens, for their development of the all steel body--using wood only for attachment of upholstery.

Buick, beginning with the first one, in 1903, for featuring only OHV layout--Buick never built a flathead.

GM in general, for introducing the first reliable mechanical fuel pump in 1928, just in time to feature them on 1929 cars--replacing the fire-prone vacuum fuel systems which required a half gallon or more gasoline in a tank right above the engine, on the firewall, and of course, making Ford's dependence on gravity fuel feed obsolete forever.

Oldsmobile, in 1939, for introducing the famed Hydramatic automatic transmission--leading to a nation of "shiftless" driving.

Ford, for their introduction of laminated safety glass in a low priced car, the 1928 Model A. Prior to this, so-called safety glass was glass with a wire grid inside it, just like the safety glass used regularly in fire doors in the stairwells of thousands of buildings.

Ford, for their introduction of dual action (Houdaille) shock absorbers in the 1928 Model A.

Ford, for their introduction of the complete use of ball and/or roller bearings in the entire driveline behind the engine, including the newly developed cushioned roller bearings from Timken in their rear axle hubs, on the 1928 Model A.

Stutz, in 1927, for their "double drop" frame, which lowered the center of gravity of the upright cars of the 20's, the so-called "Safety Stutz".

Auburn Automobile Company, for the 1929 L-29 Cord, which introduced the world to front wheel drive.

Cornelian, for being the first to have a fabricated sheet aluminum monocoque chassis/body, AND 4 wheel independent suspension, in 1915, the body and suspension of the Cornelian entry at that year's Indianapolis 500 Mile Race having been designed by Louis Chevrolet (ever hear of him?). The double leaf spring independent suspension system was later used by Fiat in their postwar 500, and had it's finest hour in the sports cars from AC, including the legendary 289 Shelby Cobra's!

Cadillac, for offering not only electric lighting, but the generator/storage battery system to support it, along with the first reliable electric self starter in the industry, in 1912.

Cadillac, for popularizing the V8 engine, beginning in 1915, and in 1924, creating the first 90-degree crankshaft for mass production, making the V8 as vibration-free as any inline engine.

Crosley (yeah, the lowly tiny Crosley!) for introducing the aircraft-style disc brake to automobiles.

Chrysler, for their introduction of "fingertip" power steering in 1951, on the Imperial.

Ford, for making the V8 engine available to the masses, and doing that with the first mass-produced en-bloc V8, in 1932.

Plymouth, for introducing "Floating Power", the first successful flexible engine mounting system, in 1932 on the PB series. No longer would drivers and passengers have the fillings in their teeth jarred by the power impulses of inline 4's or 6's!

Chrysler, for offering, from day one, in 1924, 4-wheel hydraulic brakes in cars meant for the ordinary car buyer.

Mercedes Benz, for offering the first all wheel independent suspension circa 1933, designed by the legendary Ferdinand Porsche.

British Motors Corporation, for their Austin 850 Mini, which put transverse front drive engine and driveline on the map in 1959 (OK, so this layout was first offered by Walter Christie, but save for a handful of racing cars, and dozens of fire apparatus drive units --mostly for converting horse-drawn fire equipment to motor driven, the Christie system found it's greatest proponent in the Soviet's Red Army, notably the legendary T-34 tanks of the Second World War.

Subaru, for their development of the first reliable, hands-off AWD.

Art

[samdiego]

Yeah,I also overlooked the initial mention of the T here, but geez, Harry, bold italics? ouch

[Harry P.]

Yeah,I also overlooked the initial mention of the T here, but geez, Harry, bold italics? ouch

Take the fact that I'm paying attention to you as a compliment...