Track roadsters

[Guest zebm1]

Whilst perusing my stash tha other day I came across my original Big T and Gold T boxes. Imagine my surprise when I found out that I had also stashed my collection of 1953 Revell airplane desk models! But that not what this posting is about.

I was trying to decide what to do with tha Gold T....and thought hmmmmm why not an Old Timey track roadster....so I cruzed tha web and came across sum history from Jairus' neck of tha woods.

For yall's enjoyment, pics of tha days when Men were men and boys were boys.....check out tha safety equipments.....

check out tha Push Truck...

and two what is it pics..

1) what kinda engine is in this car?

and finally, what kinda car is this? Art?

there were also pics of pickups, cut down beds, etc.

pretty kool project for a Big scale model methinks. Might have to go without eating for awhile tho........

[jbwelda]

>1) what kinda engine is in this car?

im not expert but it looks like a desoto hemi motor to me...

[Harvezter]

Zeb, what is the truck on your avatar? I'd love to see more of it. Looks very unique and cool from what I can tell.

[lordairgtar]

I think the car is a Rolls Royce in the second pic.

[Modelmartin]

Thanks very much for sharing the pics. I love the 2 #22s racing each other. I concur with the answers given, early hemi and a Rolls Royce Phantom likely a II. It is just like the Monogram kit. Now that would be an easy and fun model to build.

[Guest zebm1]

At first I thought that tha engine might be an early Ardun conversion, but this pic of an Allard roadster at a Pebble Beach Concurs shows how wrong I was.....

So I went looking for pics of Desoto hemis and found these from a 1952 brochure....

and

But, there is something mighty peculiar, check out tha header (exhaust ports) on tha racer vs. tha Desoto pics. Something different about tha 3-5 cylinders...in tha brochure pics they look like tha chevy exhaust placements. Early chryslers have tha same exhaust arrangement too.

Rolls Royce eh? Way out in Seattle too, hmmmmm.

found a neat pic of a blown flattie too.....

[Deano]

I know what your pictures show but here are a pair of 331/354 Hemi exhaust manifolds currently on ebay. They look equally spaced.

And here's a pair of Desoto Hemi manifolds. These look similar in shape to the ones in your pictures. Again, equally spaced ports.

[Guest zebm1]

Ahhh, then there must have been a design change, maybe? Tha brochure pics are of a 276 c.i. Desoto Hemi.

[BIGTRUCK]

cool pics Zeb...roll bars? who needs them if you have a stout neck

[62rebel]

street rodder magazine ran an article a coupla years back that covered the chrysler hemis in detail; it showed the differences between the desoto dodge and chrysler versions and explained why parts from one would not fit another. plymouth didn't even rate a hemi in those days; it would be the sixties before they got the rb version! IIRC; dodges were "smallblock" hemis, desoto used both small and big block versions, and chrysler used the biggest ones. slight differences in the manifolds and accessory drives are not noticeable at 1/25 though!

sidenote: the new ala-kart kit was criticized over the seemingly small red ram hemi; it might not be as far out of scale as is thought, since the red ram was engineered to fit where the old 215 straight six had been. chrysler and desoto had much more room to work with having had both big sixes and straight eights.

[Guest zebm1]

I made a mistake about tha Ardun being in an Allard, as this was tha only pic I assumed because of tha motorcycle type fenders it was an Allard. I have some examples of tha car that raced LeMans, a 1951 Allard J2-X.

Yall can see why I thought so....

[jbwelda]

an allard is one bad a$$ vehicle...they came with a variety of powerplants and maybe even ardun converted flatheads. more typical was the cadillac and chrysler hemi powered ones. someone (art?) will probably correct me on that if im incorrect but ive known a couple allard owners; one caddy powered and one flathead powered.

i built up a nice allard 1/32 scale slot car that resembles those photos quite a bit. will post pics in the slot car area later hopefully

[Biscuitbuilder]

an allard is one bad a$$ vehicle...they came with a variety of powerplants and maybe even ardun converted flatheads. more typical was the cadillac and chrysler hemi powered ones. someone (art?) will probably correct me on that if im incorrect but ive known a couple allard owners; one caddy powered and one flathead powered.

i built up a nice allard 1/32 scale slot car that resembles those photos quite a bit. will post pics in the slot car area later hopefully

Allards came with a variety of engines, frankly. The J2 Allard you show here came without engine, you stuffed in whatever your heart desired--in most cases, flathead Fords got the call, but by say, 1950-51, when used Cadillac OHV V8's (Caddy introduced that engine in 1949), a number of them got re-engined.

As for the Chrysler Hemi's, the exhaust ports themselves were more or less evenly spaced down the side of the heads, but Chrysler designers used various different manifolds in production, the "siamesed" manifold being used probably for cost reasons. The same would have been true for the DeSoto Firedome and the Dodge Red Ram.

Also, the large roadster in your pic there is a Rolls, Phantom II to be exact, and probably one built by Rolls Royce of America Ltd., which had their factory in Springfield MA from the early 20's to about 1933. That indicates that the body is probably one built by Brewster, which coachbuilder had been bought up by Rolls to provide body shells. It's not the Henley roadster of Monogram kit fame though--different lines of the rear of the body show me that.

Biscuitbuilder

[Modelmartin]

I hesitate to correct Art Anderson :roll: but the Allard J2 and J2X were not quite as DIY as implied. Nearly all had factory installed Flatheads, Chrysler hemis, and later -Cadillac OHV. Odd fact is that they replaced the hemi with the Cadillac motor as they felt that it was superior for their needs. Some may have been re-engined later but I don't recall seeing anything but the 3 different motors in J2 and J2X. I believe the factory team Lemans cars were Cad powered. A few cars may have been sent to the US without motors but they were an exception. Allard made thousands of cars in the short time he was a manufacturer (he was a Ford dealer in England) but only a small number were the J2 series which we in the US think of when we think Allard. He made sedans, coupes, converts, even a few estate cars(wagons) and three-wheelers. he later helped establish Drag Racing in England! It is a fascinating story.

Also, no Phantom IIs were assembled at Springfield. Only Ghosts and Phantom Is were assembled there. There were so few visible changes between I and II that it is easier to ID them by coachwork. There were not many visible differences between late Ghost and PI either. I think they dropped the ride height down a bit by dropping the frame ends. It is always fun and challenging to figure out old RR. The car in the pic is more than likely a Springfield built Phantom I. Art is right that the Monogram Henley isn't the same but I think to a lot of people it would be close enough for a fun model project. Not everyone is as particular as Art and myself.

[Biscuitbuilder]

I hesitate to correct Art Anderson :roll: but the Allard J2 and J2X were not quite as DIY as implied. Nearly all had factory installed Flatheads, Chrysler hemis, and later -Cadillac OHV. Odd fact is that they replaced the hemi with the Cadillac motor as they felt that it was superior for their needs. Some may have been re-engined later but I don't recall seeing anything but the 3 different motors in J2 and J2X. I believe the factory team Lemans cars were Cad powered. A few cars may have been sent to the US without motors but they were an exception. Allard made thousands of cars in the short time he was a manufacturer (he was a Ford dealer in England) but only a small number were the J2 series which we in the US think of when we think Allard. He made sedans, coupes, converts, even a few estate cars(wagons) and three-wheelers. he later helped establish Drag Racing in England! It is a fascinating story.

Also, no Phantom IIs were assembled at Springfield. Only Ghosts and Phantom Is were assembled there. There were so few visible changes between I and II that it is easier to ID them by coachwork. There were not many visible differences between late Ghost and PI either. I think they dropped the ride height down a bit by dropping the frame ends. It is always fun and challenging to figure out old RR. The car in the pic is more than likely a Springfield built Phantom I. Art is right that the Monogram Henley isn't the same but I think to a lot of people it would be close enough for a fun model project. Not everyone is as particular as Art and myself.

Andy, you are probably right--I was working off the "top of my head" on the Allard--as for the Springfield Rolls, you are correct, my typing is bad--should have proofread it, because I also knew that the only Phantoms to come out of Springfield were Phantom I's!

Now thinking of breaking the offending fingers!

Biscuitbuilder

[bob paeth]

Art, So far as I know there is only one finger that is considered as offending

bob :shock: