1/12th Trumpeter GT40

[Pete J.]

Now this is 1047 which was driven by Gurney and Grant, DNF'd and was a Shelby car. (I think Carroll is third on the left in the foreground) Maybe we're both right-H-M did the rear tank (I have not seen any race evidence of that) and Shel did the front one.

It only points out how hard it is to find data as the cars were changed so much THEN (to race at Daytona, Sebring, Neurbergring etc) and changed years later in restorations.

[Cato]

Most of the cars I've seen do not have those. These cars were run and modified on the fly so there is no "right" configuration for the season, only a "per race" configuration and sometimes that changed during a race. Makes it very difficult to do a "correct" model.

This is the absolute true statement about GT's for any modelers. Perfectly said.

[Cato]

Syd,

Since you're leaving it unpainted, did you forget to sand off the mold seams on the nose, cockpit sides and rear clip? There are also some sink marks inside the front hood and cockpit roof.

[LR3]

Syd,

Since you're leaving it unpainted, did you forget to sand off the mold seams on the nose, cockpit sides and rear clip? There are also some sink marks inside the front hood and cockpit roof.

Nobody's perfect.

By the way Cato I used to listen to the Green Hornet on radio in the late 30's - you can't be that old.

Ah - ran into a little problem trying to place the reflective mylar on the hood. Hard to get it to stay flat as you insert it into the back end. When it touches the plastic that is all she wrote. Missed position by about an 1/8th. If you haven't installed it yet you also need to make a template of the front curves in that area. As usual I assumed it was cut to fit already like everything else in this model - mistake. Had to try to cut around the curves as the mylar was already sticking. Arrgh.

Edited July 15, 2010 by LR3

[Cato]

You got me by a decade pal. Uncle Miltie and Hoppie was my time.

The rear clip is complex and not pretty. I mocked-up the parts and saw that mylar was a no-no. Making a template would surely work better. You can remove the sticky with isopropyl and start again. I think that Trump just randomly added some 'tinsel' to jazz the model up.

My plan is to ignore it (it burned to a crisp in no time on the cars that had it anyway) and do the whole underside german gray.

I will make a tin-can sheet cover with ribs for the carb area under the backlight.

Here's an unrestored clip off 1016 showing black on the raw 'glass. You can also see how flimsy the whole clip is for lightness:

[LR3]

I did not have a feeling for the actual size of the GT40 until I placed it beside my Porsche 935. I thought it was a boat until then. Be interesting to hear some relative 935 to GT40 specs and discussion. There must be 30 years difference between the technology.

[Cato]

I did not have a feeling for the actual size of the GT40 until I placed it beside my Porsche 935. I thought it was a boat until then. Be interesting to hear some relative 935 to GT40 specs and discussion. There must be 30 years difference between the technology.

Actually there's only 10 years difference-1966 to '76. The important thing to remember is the GT was a Prototype and the 935 was a production based class. The Ford raced with about 490HP and the 935 made just under 700 at full boost. The GT was very ahead of it's time.

I might post a snap of my 935 because I built it in the '80's but in the same style I'm doing the GT-'as-raced' condition. I referenced the Dijon France winner of '76. It looks like a truck compared to the GT but remember, it's production based. This was before Porsche built the Prototype 908's, 910's and 917's.

[Pete J.]

Actually there's only 10 years difference-1966 to '76. The important thing to remember is the GT was a Prototype and the 935 was a production based class. The Ford raced with about 490HP and the 935 made just under 700 at full boost. The GT was very ahead of it's time.

I might post a snap of my 935 because I built it in the '80's but in the same style I'm doing the GT-'as-raced' condition. I referenced the Dijon France winner of '76. It looks like a truck compared to the GT but remember, it's production based. This was before Porsche built the Prototype 908's, 910's and 917's.

Interestingly, if you could get past tech inspection, the GT 40 would be competitive at todays Le Mans race. If you look at the speeds and the times, It would be in the top 10 finishers. Quite an accomplishment for a 45 year old car. Of course it would never make it past the inspectors but it is fun to think about. In fact the Mark IV at 5200 miles would have beat all the cars until this years race.

[LR3]

Interestingly, if you could get past tech inspection, the GT 40 would be competitive at todays Le Mans race. If you look at the speeds and the times, It would be in the top 10 finishers. Quite an accomplishment for a 45 year old car. Of course it would never make it past the inspectors but it is fun to think about. In fact the Mark IV at 5200 miles would have beat all the cars until this years race.

Not bad for a 40 year old car with the same wheel base as a porsche.

[Junkman]

Interestingly, if you could get past tech inspection, the GT 40 would be competitive at todays Le Mans race. If you look at the speeds and the times, It would be in the top 10 finishers. Quite an accomplishment for a 45 year old car. Of course it would never make it past the inspectors but it is fun to think about. In fact the Mark IV at 5200 miles would have beat all the cars until this years race.

Interestingly, this confirms what I keep saying: Where is the progress in the past 40 years of automotive engineering?

[Cato]

Interestingly, this confirms what I keep saying: Where is the progress in the past 40 years of automotive engineering?

Christian,

That's 'glass-half-empty' mentality.

You should be proud! Englishman Eric Broadley's brainchild became a benchmark that-in some ways- hasn't been surpassed in 40 years!

[Pete J.]

Actually my comment about tech inspection really nails the engineering issue. After looking at the real car, you had to be a bit nuts to drive it. The fuel system makes it a rolling Molotov cocktail. There is so little driver protection from accident that it almost assures driver injury or fatality. The brakes were absolute ######. The rotors were changed multiple times per race and would fail at the most inopportune times, like the end of the Mulsanne straight. If you crashed the engine was quite likely to try and join you in the cockpit. There was so little head room that in a rollover head injury was quite likely and on and on.

It was an extraordinary car for it's day and todays cars can generally trace their linage back to the engineering that went into it, but engineering has not stood still. Todays cars are entirely different even though they run in a similar contest. Engineering has indeed progressed but not in obvious ways.

[LR3]

Keep up the racing dialog - I am enjoying it. The last sports car races I attended were at Riverside CA watching Porsche Speedsters chase Corvettes (which is why I thought the GT40 would be bigger than the 935.)

Cato - if you haven't tried to wire up the rear deck be sure to round off the attachment post. I have a way of breaking just about every delicate part and in trying to hook the ring over the post I broke it. Also you have to file down the bulkhead thickness where it goes over the frame attachment pig. That is a very thin peg and the bulkhead is too thick to slip between the frame and peg end. I also broke one of these before I discovered the problem.

[Jim Gibbons]

Actually my comment about tech inspection really nails the engineering issue. After looking at the real car, you had to be a bit nuts to drive it. The fuel system makes it a rolling Molotov cocktail. There is so little driver protection from accident that it almost assures driver injury or fatality. The brakes were absolute ######. The rotors were changed multiple times per race and would fail at the most inopportune times, like the end of the Mulsanne straight. If you crashed the engine was quite likely to try and join you in the cockpit. There was so little head room that in a rollover head injury was quite likely and on and on.

It was an extraordinary car for it's day and todays cars can generally trace their linage back to the engineering that went into it, but engineering has not stood still. Todays cars are entirely different even though they run in a similar contest. Engineering has indeed progressed but not in obvious ways.

Syd, despite the difficulties you've had, the GT40's progressing beautifully. I'm going to miss this thread when you and Cato are done! Fascinating amount of racing and car history here.

I've seen a GT40 race at Lime Rock Vintage (I've worked timing and scoring for that event) and they are surprisingly small. I have no idea what chassis #, but it's a darkish red with the #68 if you follow vintage racing. It's incredible how much safer the sports racers are today. I agree; crashing a GT40 at speed would likely have been fatal, as with a 917, etc. I'll never forget hearing on the radio that my childhood hero, Jim Clark, had died at Hockenheim. Back then, it seemed that every racing season issue of Road & Track I'd read listed at least one racing fatality. To drive those cars back then required the kind of fearlessness that one sees in extreme sports events today. WW1 pilots had the same mentality; how could you fly what was essentially a wood and fabric motorized kite, and have any real faith in it? (Guess that's why Eddie Rickenbacker was also a hero; he raced AND flew those things!) I think I'll pop my tape of the movie "Le Mans," or "In Car 956" in now!

[GrandpaMcGurk]

Syd......are you havin' fun yet? We go back a ways and I've watched your skills grow at an alarming rate, how are we supposed to keep up? Nice work bud.

[Cato]

Cato - if you haven't tried to wire up the rear deck be sure to round off the attachment post. I have a way of breaking just about every delicate part and in trying to hook the ring over the post I broke it. Also you have to file down the bulkhead thickness where it goes over the frame attachment pig. That is a very thin peg and the bulkhead is too thick to slip between the frame and peg end. I also broke one of these before I discovered the problem.

Syd old Kid,

Many thanks for sharing these 'heads-up' tips. I am woefully behind your progress and will know to look for them when I begin again. I have been making 1:1 noise and terrorizing the highways.

I decided to bring out the big guns and show you the Exoto 1/10 GT 1015-the car that 'won' '66 LeMans but finished second. The model is diecast and China-built but as such it blows away the GMP 1/12's and lesser scales. I'm glad I have it and I think it's OOP now. They're still building 1046 (our Trump kit) and they're asking twice what I paid for 1015.

It truly is a great reference as it compares to material I have on 1015 perfectly. This model shows you what and where we have questions on the Trump car. I regret that this car can't disassemble easily as there are minute changes I would make (mostly finishes and foils) but I do not want to lower it's value. I just built a pair of old fashioned jack stands to better display all the suspension and opening pieces. The seats are real fabric which simulates black nylon weave and the whole interior is 'correct'. I love it. It is also a strong and durable structure-mine is about six years old and I display it open like this all that time. I built this base and a glass case and the interior of the base is 21" long to give an idea of scale. As you can see, I make prop rods from steel wire to hold open the rear and front clips. I just don't trust dinky chains.

With the nose open you can clearly see that aluminum overlap panel in the wheel well and the very well done suspension-it's accurate AND solid-plus it all moves.

If you wanted to see some particular detail, when I've got time I'd shoot some macro close-ups. I just can't disassemble like the Trump kit.

Enjoy.

[LR3]

OH - I CAN ENJOY THAT. Gosh what a beautiful model and the way you have it displayed is perfect.

Hey you guys - keep the sea stories coming.

[Cato]

Here's the cockpit of 1015 as raced today by owner Brian Mimaki. Only differences to the Exoto are shift knob, fuse panel surround, fire extinguisher, door mirror and protective aluminum switch panels. All the rest is near identical.

Here's the car during the race in '66. I'm weathering my model much like the car is here late in the race. The nose is lifted from acceleration:

And here's that fateful split second finish, 1046 ahead of 1015:

[LR3]

I might post a snap of my 935 because I built it in the '80's but in the same style I'm doing the GT-'as-raced' condition.

Waiting - waiting

[Cato]

Waiting - waiting

Man-it's not like it's worth waiting for.

OK. Between tonight and tomorrow. Got to dig stuff out...

[Cato]

Waiting - waiting

OK-as promised. Thank you for inviting me to post in your thread Syd. My bad, I'm posting more than one snap...But I realized I haven't even LOOKED at this model since I moved here 3 years ago, so I unpacked it and it felt good seeing it again. Then I shot these fresh snaps with its new 1/12 'stablemate'.

Built between '87 and '89 and my skills haven't progressed much since then. No PE or fittings in those days so I made fakey-do stuff to suggest things. I had/have excellent reference though so that helped. Did the usual, wired the fuses, plumbed the various systems and added fire system lines. I intentionally deleted the aero covers on the 19" rears-but forgot to 'brake dust' them! Made it snotty like a racecar going 130MPH average through the French forests for 6 hours. Those are bug spatters and chips on the nose and w'shield and a ton of tire snots everywhere. Maybe I overdid it? The photos of the 1:1 show the car was a mess-maybe worse than this. The clear over Testors white yellowed with age and I took a polishing kit to it in the late '90's-still yellowed but I always liked this 'vintage' race look.

You are right-it looks amazing with the GT.

[LR3]

Really a great model. I like the weathering. I may have to rethink my finish. Unless you guys can come up with more sea stories I guess this closes the thread. Been fun talking to you.

[Cato]

Really a great model. I like the weathering. I may have to rethink my finish. Unless you guys can come up with more sea stories I guess this closes the thread. Been fun talking to you.

Syd,

Please post the GT when finished or close to it.

[Jim Gibbons]

Really a great model. I like the weathering. I may have to rethink my finish. Unless you guys can come up with more sea stories I guess this closes the thread. Been fun talking to you.

Syd, we still have to see your finished model, even if it takes some time for you to rethink the appearance. Plus, there's Cato's version to see completed...this thread is way too good to see end!!! (I really like the 935, too!)

[Cato]

Syd,

I found two views that I hope will be of use to you if you haven't completed these areas already.

The first is a clear shot of the windshield surround and the under-side of the rear clip. I know you had trouble with the foil there and the real car is rather sloppy under here. Like the gold part I showed you above. It's just raw glass with a tin panel riveted around the engine area. Also note the taped-on foil-like insulation on the bulkhead. Oh and some guy named Henry is leaning on it-he could because he paid for ALL OF THEM.

This view clearly shows the oil and fuel plumbing and the distributor cover 'shelf' under the rear window. Sorry I didn't find this sooner when you were doing the fuel pumps:

Please show us your latest progress-or are you away on vacation?