Major Issue WIth Testors One Coat Lacquer (Help!)

[Duntov]

HI:

I have not had this problem in about 15 plus years but here I am with it big time. I went out about ten days ago and got the Aoshima AMG roadster……I am impressed……the build is going very well indeed and it is very enjoyable. Started working on the body and related fascia pieces….prepped, cleaned and primed them with Tamiya fine gray surface primer……no issues. The primer dried out for three days and then I decided to try the Testors One Coat Lacquer paint (silver). It went on smoothly and no issues (looks very nice so far)……left it to dry and came back about 20 minutes later to find several sections of the paint crazed much like regular hot lacquer will do to raw plastic. After full dry out the body is like it has silver sand all over it plus the crazing in various spots. There has clearly been a reaction between these two paints. Any ideas here? I previously tested this stuff on scrap with the Tamiya primer and it worked well……Two questions now: 1) anyone have these problems and 2) ideas to strip this junk off the body……I would really like to salvage this.....as you know this kit is not cheap and to this point has been an excellent build. Any help would be greatly appreciated......

Thanks

Bill(Duntov)

[Zoom Zoom]

High-strength 91% or 99% isopropyl rubbing alcohol may do the trick. You might need to scuff the silver. If you get all the paint off, see if the plastic itself was affected. My SL was painted w/all Tamiya lacquers, zero issues w/paint compatibility.

How thick is the coat of paint on there now? If it's still relatively thin, you could sand it smooth and then ditch the Testors paint and use all Tamiya on top of what you have. You might test a bumper or the hood to see if this would work before stripping everything down.

Never heard of any issues like this before between Tamiya and Testors lacquers. I airbrush decanted Testors Model Master lacquers on Tamiya primer without any issue, and Tamiya clear over it with great results. Though I will admit I never use the "one coat" colors because the metallic/pearl pigments are far too large to be even close to "factory" stock. To me they're only good for custom work.

If you get it clean whether through stripping or sanding, use Tamiya TS 17 gloss aluminum for a good, factory-looking Mercedes silver.

[Duntov]

Thanks guys......I usually use the one brand approach but wanted to try the Testor's product (so my fault for mixing)....I agree with Bob though the metal flake is out of whack scale wise.

Regards

Bill (Duntov)

[Zoom Zoom]

My first venture with Model Master auto lacquers was Big Bad Blue. It blew Big Bad junk all over my resin 70 AMX.

I almost gave up.

Had to decant/airbrush. A bad nozzle can ruin your day.

First metallic I shot was the GM Artesian Turquoise. Looked like a silly bass boat. I decanted it and tried again. Bass boat city. No good.

In the meantime, the non-metallic colors have been good to me, and someone mentioned using a black nozzle...it does help. I usually decant & airbrush.

A week or two ago I finally did spoon tests of all the other metallic colors I got at the time I got the Artesian Turquoise. Wouldn't you know...they're all fine. Only the turquoise is bad. Still. To this day. In fact 20 mins. after I shot the spoon, I accidentally brushed the spoon...and it lifted the huge metallic flakes off the spoon, leaving behind a nice solid turquoise base. Weird...something's just flat screwed up w/that particular can. All the other colors were set and seemingly dry by that time.

Live and learn...at least my Nassau Blue, Evening Orchid, Honduras Maroon, Bronze, Dark Cherry, etc. will all be just fine...but I tell you, Testors really tries to keep me from buying their products, considering my first experiences w/the lacquers (bad nozzle on Big Bad Blue and bad paint in the Artesian Turquoise).

So far I've never had a bad can of Tamiya...and I've probably used hundreds of cans so far...

[Zoom Zoom]

Just curious Bob...have you ever shot the TS-17 straight from the can and then cleared over it? I've had disastrous results with both this paint, and the TS-30 Silver Leaf under Tamiya clear. I must admit I haven't used the decant/airbrush method with them.

Both had the same problem...the base coats went on fine, either over bare plastic or over Tamiya primer, but as soon as they were hit with Tamiya clear, dark "water spots" appeared in the paint. As if dried water spots somehow had been left on the body. Multiple strip/repaint cycles followed, and even going so far as doing alcohol wipedowns of the body and using gloves the whole time resulted in the same issues. The spots never once appeared prior to clearing the body, but would show the on the first light mist of clear going on top. I bought multiple cans of each paint, and clear, from different stores thinking something was wrong with one of them. The slivers all looked fine until cleared, and the clear was fine over every other paint.

Switching to TS-75 Mica Silver was the fix. I was told by someone at Tamiya that they were aware of the issue, which led to Mica Silver being formulated.

That's the one and only issue I've ever had with Tamiya paints and primers...at least the TS line. The Mini 4wd paints have some quirks.

Don't even think about decanting Silver Leaf and mixing it with any TS clear. It will clump up terribly. It's a different formula. I did shoot one or two cars w/Mica Silver (no airbrush) and noticed it was a little more forgiving. It's also a different shade of silver. Gloss Aluminum seems a better standard "German" silver.

I did a couple models with out-of-the-can Gloss Aluminum w/clear. I didn't have any terrible problems, but the clear did try to react somewhat w/the silver. Somehow I dusted it just the right way (color and clear) before any wet clearcoats to get it all to settle properly. But since then I've gotten so familiar and comfortable decanting the paint that I prefer that method. Takes longer to apply, but I spend less time at the end since polishing rarely involves much wetsanding before the three compounds (often just minor scuffing w/4000 grit micromesh, I hardly ever touch 6-12K anymore).

These were both shot w/o aid of the airbrush (and I've always shot clear almost immediately over color, even when I was shooting enamels during the 80's and 90's):

Edited July 13, 2010 by Zoom Zoom

[charlzrocks]

I see that you have all your answers to the paint problem......I can at least offer you removal help....I use "Purple Power" from WallMart in the large jug. Just pour the stuff into a PLASTIC container (tupperware type) big enough to fit your painted parts. Put the parts into the purple power and let them sit for a day. Then with RUBBER GLOVES (as the stuff is caustic to skin) remove the parts and using an old toothbrush give the parts a good scrubbing. Rinse well in water. Repeat if necessary. This stuff WILL NOT harm the plastic at all, but will eat the paint off overnight for you!

[Marc @ MPC Motorsports]

I've not experienced anything like you just did. I have painted four bodies with Testors Lacquers, all over Tamiya primer. Two were cleared with Tamiya TS-13 and two with Testors clear. I have not sprayed the One Coat Silver except for a spoon test but did not have any issues.

I hope you can salvage this one.

[vaughn]

For awhile there I thought I was the only one experincing compatible problems with testors. Thought it was the humdity and probably was. But a good drying and wet sanding and some days of low humidity and another spray and polishing and persistence...I got it worked out. Will post a 37 Ford PU painted with Testors Aqua and Metalic Black, probably this weekend. Good luck and stick with it !

[Duntov]

Hi:

Thanks to everyone for making this a very informative and helpful thread. I am going to persist on this car since I like it so much....I think with some of the good inputfromall of you it can be brought around in time. I am in 100% travel mode so I will try to post one or two pictures of the disaster this weekend and then something on the progression of saving this one.

Thanks Again!!!!

Regards

Bill (Duntov)

[charlzrocks]

I don't mean to be negative on your answer, but I don't think that Castrol Super Clean or (chemically similar) Purple Power will work here. CSC and Purple power eat up enamels, but Testors/Tamiya/automotive paint/old AMT lacquers need 91%+ alcohol as Bob Downie suggested. I have 2 "dunk tanks" for stripping built-up models I get on eBay. The most-often used is Castrol, but if the paint is lacquer based it won't touch it. Into the alcohol it goes...and usually it only takes a few hours before the paint is coming off in sheets.

Oh no problem...however, I have had to strip Testors Laquer as well as Krylon and have had no problems with it coming off in the Purple Pond. But I may just be the exception, so it would be a good idea to have your info as well! Cheers!

[camaroman]

Just my two cents...

Some of you may remember my dilemma of a few months ago with the "fake" HOK paints sold by Wally world.

All of that stuff is finally off the 150 body after an extended (months long) swim in the Purple Pond.

It even removed all of the Tamiya gray primer with a little help from an old toothbrush in the door and trunk lines.

The plastic does not seem to be affected by the Super Clean.

I tend to believe the Super Clean is worth the difference in price over the knock offs. Just an observation made in over thirty years of use in the clean up of One Ones...

FWIW

[charlzrocks]

I've found the only way Testors/Tamiya/automotive/old AMT lacquers are going anywhere in Castrol/Purple Power is if the primer underneath can be removed by it. There are several brands of primers that are... Tamiya's lacquer primers (gray or white) which is what I use won't budge in CSC.

Wow! Really good observation! I never thought of that at all. I always have a gray primer under my lacquer. I use the cheap WalMart brand. That could explain everything!

[TurboKitty]

I know this is from a couple weeks ago, but I wanted to add something that nobody has mentioned regarding the Testors One Coat Lacquer paints. The paint itself is meant to be sprayed over a thoroughly sanded, and unprimed plastic body. You don't need to prime it before painting, just sand it well and clean it before painting. I've used these paints on a few cars in my Under Glass thread, and I haven't used primer. Simply wetsand lightly between coats (don't do it too rough or you can sort of scuff the metallic flakes in the paint), and finish with the "Wet Look Clear" from the same series, it works very well.

Edited July 28, 2010 by MB_ChargerChick

[TurboKitty]

While one can certainly apply paint over bare plastic with relative success, to say it's meant to be sprayed over an unprimered body isn't valid or helpful info. If that were true, then Testors would not make & sell a lacquer primer, (in gray & in white).

As someone that spent eleven years painting 1/1 trucks, has a diploma in auto body repair & paint & has been building models, (this time), for twenty years, I can say without hesitation that paint adheres better to a primered surface, no ifs, no ands, & no buts. Primer provides a better "tooth" for the paint to adhere to, as well as increasing the opacity of the plastic, making for a more realistic finish.

This is proven & verified fact, not conjecture or speculation. BTW Michelle, I'm not picking on you in any way, I'm just correcting the misinformation that I so often read regarding using primer on model cars. You're not the first to be lead down that path & you certainly won't be the last.

It's true that if you chose to you don't have to use primer on a model, it's not true to say that certain paints are meant to be applied only over unprimered plastic.

Hun, I see where you are coming from. But I did not state that *all* Testors paints are meant to be sprayed without primer. The "One Coat Lacquer" system, however, is. I looked into it before buying my first can. With other paints, including Testors' regular lines, I do use primer (as you are supposed to). The One Coat series was formulated to be easy to use, and provide an even coat. No primer or clear is needed, BUT they do offer a clear for that particular series. Here, if you still insist that I'm wrong, please read Testors' own description and specs for the One Coat Lacquer series:

http://www.testors.com/category/137170/One_Coat_Lacquers

A direct quote from the Testors website:

"A new line of aerosol lacquers offer trend-forward colors and convenience, all in one classy package:

Innovation one coat formula meets today’s need for speed.

No prime coat or clear coat needed.

Fast dries in 20 minutes for less.

A well-rounded palette of today’s hottest metallic colors. "

Also, this review does not say anything about primer being required **for this Testors line**:

http://www.ipmsusa2.org/reviews/Products/testors_1coat-spray/testors_1coat-spray.htm

I don't know if using Testors Lacquer Primer will have any affects on the One Coat paints. Personally, I took a chance and used the paint without primer on several models and have had absolutely no problems. Some paints and primers from different brands are sometimes just not compatible. You are free to agree or disagree, but if I am wrong, then maybe you should email Testors and tell them, since my information comes directly from their site...

Edited July 28, 2010 by MB_ChargerChick

[TurboKitty]

right, that is a good point. I didn't include that if there were any alterations to the body, then primer is a no brainer. In my builds I haven't done that, so I forgot to add that point lol.

Another thing, if one wanted to primer the body, paint a base color (gold, silver, white, whatever), the One Coat series works well over that, as long as it's all the same (enamel, acrylic, lacquer). The base will help in covering the bodywork if no primer is used, but in that case primer is obviously a good thing lol.

Edited July 28, 2010 by MB_ChargerChick