You DO NOT need high tech equipment or deep pockets to build highly detailed models

[crazyjim]

Come on winter. Can't wait for the tutorials.

[shucky]

Jeff thanks for posting this so far. I do feel though that even with high tech equipment and deep pockets, one can build a low quality model. Yep I said it. You need to know what to do with those detailing parts whether you scratch build them or buy them. For me, doing research and using reference photos is of the utmost importance for any build I take on. Using reference photos for scratch building parts is key and arming yourself with a little knowledge of how those parts work or where they're installed will help you build a more accurate and believable model. You can have the most beautiful parts (made yourself or paid for), but install those parts backwards on a model and now what do you have?

Further, while every bit of information helps, scratch building takes much time and dedication. You have to "want" to improve and have to accept you'll make many many mistakes along the way. Most importantly, you have to "want" to build like that for yourself and have fun doing it. If you have no desire to scratch build parts for yourself but only to impress a modeling forum, then you'll have a miserable time doing so. Its been said many times before, but this is a hobby, and your hobby should be fun. If it ain't fun, well ... it ain't a hobby then.

Look forward to seeing some of Jeff's tips. He is someone who sure has put in the time and effort to get to the point where he is today. Hopefully no fights break out in his thread Just kidding!

Edited August 31, 2010 by shucky

[Greg Cullinan]

My next build I am going to add more detail. I am going to put more effort into research and planning and setting up the build materials before I start.

[southpier]

this stuff is 1/8 scale, right?

[Gray Smith]

Jeff I look forward to seeing more on this..I'm one of those guys who doesn't have the money to waste on big name aftermarket parts(though sometimes I do)..

Thanks

Gray

[comp1839]

in an effort to try and clear up any confusion about hi tech machinery or expensive parts i figured i'd voice an opinion. in 1/25 scale you guys are very lucky to have it so good. there are tons of aftermarket parts available at reasonbly low cost. there are is virtually an endless supply of kits that are offered. between the the two offerings, i can see where you could say it doesn't take a ton of money to build a highly detailed car making your statement true. unfortunately this is not a true statement in the 1/8 world. there is almost no aftermarket and very limited selection of kits. if you want to build a highly detailed car in 1/8 scale well, let's just say you don't have many choices. so you if you want to build something out of the ordinary like, a AA/FA in 1/25 no problem. tons of offerings. 1/8 there's nothing. so what do you do. i opted to make all my own stuff. by the way my equipment is not high tech by any stretch of the imagination. my 2 vertical mills are older than me and i'm over 50. ain't nothing high tech here dude. lot's of time and effort. j. sauber i see you have some pretty nice wheels on the front of your pro mod. where'd you get them? i'm pretty sure they don't make 'em in my size. here are some of my (maybe not so highly detailed) builds.

for the record 98% of what you see is totally scratch built. what surprises me is, i never hear any one say anything about the approximate 2000hrs. i have in each one of these builds. i never hear that somebody even knows the blower pulley ratios are correct, or the wheel base is correct or that the injector's square inches of opening is corrector that any of the thousands of other details i've tried to accomplish are correct. you see, that to me is a detailed model. what i seem to hear is " you have high tech machines that i don't have".

i'll agree with you a hundred percent on it's the talent of the builder not the machines he has but, i don't think you can build these with a dremel tool and a hand file.

i guess i don't think your opinion is a fair one in the world of 1/8 scale car modeling.

Edited August 31, 2010 by comp1839

[DRG]

I am one that has all the tools you mentioned. I guess I never really thought about the concept of using those tools to scratch build my own parts. When I do sit and think about it I see where I could make rims out of aluminum or nylon. I also see where it is concieveable to make linkage and so forth using small threaded rod and aluminum sheets. I am almost ready to try making my own Headers and so forth.

One problem I do have however is after making some of those small, miniscule parts, how in the _ _ _ _ do you attach them. I have tried and have difficulty to see things clearly under a magnifier and then theres the distortion I see. It just seems that sometimes my fat hands are in the way.

As far as the quality of your builds they are fantastic, I respect you as I do many many others on this forum.

[David Thibodeau]

in an effort to try and clear up any confusion about hi tech machinery or expensive parts i figured i'd voice an opinion. in 1/25 scale you guys are very lucky to have it so good. there are tons of aftermarket parts available at reasonbly low cost. there are is virtually an endless supply of kits that are offered. between the the two offerings, i can see where you could say it doesn't take a ton of money to build a highly detailed car making your statement true. unfortunately this is not a true statement in the 1/8 world. there is almost no aftermarket and very limited selection of kits. if you want to build a highly detailed car in 1/8 scale well, let's just say you don't have many choices. so you if you want to build something out of the ordinary like, a AA/FA in 1/25 no problem. tons of offerings. 1/8 there's nothing. so what do you do. i opted to make all my own stuff. by the way my equipment is not high tech by any stretch of the imagination. my 2 vertical mills are older than me and i'm over 50. ain't nothing high tech here dude. lot's of time and effort. j. sauber i see you have some pretty nice wheels on the front of your pro mod. where'd you get them? i'm pretty sure they don't make 'em in my size. here are some of my (maybe not so highly detailed) builds.

for the record 98% of what you see is totally scratch built. what surprises me is, i never hear any one say anything about the approximate 2000hrs. i have in each one of these builds. i never hear that somebody even knows the blower pulley ratios are correct, or the wheel base is correct or that the injector's square inches of opening is corrector that any of the thousands of other details i've tried to accomplish are correct. you see, that to me is a detailed model. what i seem to hear is " you have high tech machines that i don't have".

i'll agree with you a hundred percent on it's the talent of the builder not the machines he has but, i don't think you can build these with a dremel tool and a hand file.

i guess i don't think your opinion is a fair one in the world of 1/8 scale car modeling.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD DAVE........... Thanks for your input here... it was needed...

[Jeff Sauber]

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD DAVE........... Thanks for your input here... it was needed...

Hi Dave, welcome back.....Missed me did ya?....

[Jeff Sauber]

in an effort to try and clear up any confusion about hi tech machinery or expensive parts i figured i'd voice an opinion. in 1/25 scale you guys are very lucky to have it so good. there are tons of aftermarket parts available at reasonbly low cost. there are is virtually an endless supply of kits that are offered. between the the two offerings, i can see where you could say it doesn't take a ton of money to build a highly detailed car making your statement true. unfortunately this is not a true statement in the 1/8 world. there is almost no aftermarket and very limited selection of kits. if you want to build a highly detailed car in 1/8 scale well, let's just say you don't have many choices. so you if you want to build something out of the ordinary like, a AA/FA in 1/25 no problem. tons of offerings. 1/8 there's nothing. so what do you do. i opted to make all my own stuff. by the way my equipment is not high tech by any stretch of the imagination. my 2 vertical mills are older than me and i'm over 50. ain't nothing high tech here dude. lot's of time and effort. j. sauber i see you have some pretty nice wheels on the front of your pro mod. where'd you get them? i'm pretty sure they don't make 'em in my size. here are some of my (maybe not so highly detailed) builds.

for the record 98% of what you see is totally scratch built. what surprises me is, i never hear any one say anything about the approximate 2000hrs. i have in each one of these builds. i never hear that somebody even knows the blower pulley ratios are correct, or the wheel base is correct or that the injector's square inches of opening is corrector that any of the thousands of other details i've tried to accomplish are correct. you see, that to me is a detailed model. what i seem to hear is " you have high tech machines that i don't have".

i'll agree with you a hundred percent on it's the talent of the builder not the machines he has but, i don't think you can build these with a dremel tool and a hand file.

i guess i don't think your opinion is a fair one in the world of 1/8 scale car modeling.

Beautiful work!!.....Yeah, when you get into the huge scale stuff, parts fabrication can be a whole different ball game in some regards.

My thread isn't a slam at the big scale guys or a hidden challenge of the "hand tool guys" vs the "Milling and lathe machine guys".....

My thread was to offer another option to those who were misconstrued into thinking that without lots of money and high-end equipment, building nicely detailed replicas was something that was out of reach.

If this thread turns into a pissing match of that sort of thing, I'll have nothing to do with it.

Anyone who wants to flame out on this thread is on their own..

I'm just the messenger.

Edited September 1, 2010 by J. Sauber

[Art Anderson]

Jeff,

You make some very good points, but as with so many things, issues in either this hobby or in life itself, it's not always that a "one size fits all, broad paintbrush approach" truly fits.

Without a doubt, there are all manner of goodies around the house, from Mom's (or your significant other's) sewing basket and the gadget drawer--I think I've been down just about every path in that woods (after 58 years of modelbuilding, I would hope so!).

The use of superdetailing aftermarket parts, even those details created by one's own hands ought never be used to intimidate others, but rather to make one's builds speak for themselves. It's one thing to take a model to a show, and be justifiably proud to the point of wanting others to see it, but the line between that and purely boasting can be pretty thin, and only faintly gray. It's the latter that can turn others off, others who have yet to reach that high level of skills and artistic achievement.

As for megabucks workbenches, I suspect mine qualifies (with a Sherline lathe and their vertical mill, a couple of airbrushes and numerous Dremels, and more hand tools than I care to count) but that is an accumulation of stuff gathered since the early 1960's.

But, in the bottom line, I tend to show off my handiwork primarily to friends I know well, be they at a show I am attending, or online in places such as this. And yeah, with a project as involved as the Knox I am working on, I do wonder sometimes if my frequent in-progress pics don't turn some people off, so I tend to be pretty careful when I do let out pics, or put it on the primer table.

Perhaps the worst thing a modeler can do, IMHO, is to assume that he/she can never achieve the level of so-called "supermodelers", so they don't even try. This hobby can be as much about pushing one's personal envelope in either great leaps forward, or tiny steps across the floor. But I do suspect that most builders who read pages like this one, do try to outdo their last project with each subsequent effort.

Art

[comp1839]

donald, out of respect for the originator of this thread, i think we should move our conversation onto a different thread. i will tell you i suffer from fat finger syndrome myself. perhaps my top alcohol dragster posting?

[Jeff Sauber]

donald, out of respect for the originator of this thread, i think we should move our conversation onto a different thread. i will tell you i suffer from fat finger syndrome myself. perhaps my top alcohol dragster posting?

My thread is your thread....If you want to post your machined 1/8 scale stuff here, that's fine. No offense taken..I'm open to hijacks....[just as long as the're cool hijacks..]..

This is the internet. All threads are fair game. Do with it what you will.

I just started this thread to let a few folks know there was other ways to build a few things....[primarilly in 1/25th, since that's the scale I tend to build in.]

I'll be moving onto the Tips & tricks section to add the tutorials later in the year, so this thread is all yours........Enjoy....Regards, Jeff

[Karmodeler2]

Jeff thanks for posting this so far. I do feel though that even with high tech equipment and deep pockets, one can build a low quality model. Yep I said it. You need to know what to do with those detailing parts whether you scratch build them or buy them. For me, doing research and using reference photos is of the utmost importance for any build I take on. Using reference photos for scratch building parts is key and arming yourself with a little knowledge of how those parts work or where they're installed will help you build a more accurate and believable model. You can have the most beautiful parts (made yourself or paid for), but install those parts backwards on a model and now what do you have?

Further, while every bit of information helps, scratch building takes much time and dedication. You have to "want" to improve and have to accept you'll make many many mistakes along the way. Most importantly, you have to "want" to build like that for yourself and have fun doing it. If you have no desire to scratch build parts for yourself but only to impress a modeling forum, then you'll have a miserable time doing so. Its been said many times before, but this is a hobby, and your hobby should be fun. If it ain't fun, well ... it ain't a hobby then.

Look forward to seeing some of Jeff's tips. He is someone who sure has put in the time and effort to get to the point where he is today. Hopefully no fights break out in his thread Just kidding!

for the record 98% of what you see is totally scratch built. what surprises me is, i never hear any one say anything about the approximate 2000hrs. i have in each one of these builds. i never hear that somebody even knows the blower pulley ratios are correct, or the wheel base is correct or that the injector's square inches of opening is corrector that any of the thousands of other details i've tried to accomplish are correct. you see, that to me is a detailed model. what i seem to hear is " you have high tech machines that i don't have".

I think these two gentlemen have mentioned something that I hope will not be lost by anyone. Buying tools/aftermarket stuff will NOT improve your building skills or make you a better modeler. Just look how many hours David took to ENSURE (not just accept, but ensure) that his model was correct. He says he's over 50 and I'm sure he did not just start building a year ago. You are looking at talent, which can't be bought, but was finely honed, and still is being honed, to what you see here. The excuse that he, or I have expensive machines is a moot point. You can buy a race car, but you would be no Jeff Gordon (or Earnhart for you "3" fans). David chose to spend the time honing the skills needed to build incredible models. It was a choice on his part.

I see a lot of models, with tons of detail, but the basics are missing. Therefore, you have a model, that is not that well done, with $100+ of photo etch, and it's still a model that is not that well done. For the gentleman who asked if he should hone his basics or try a really high detailed build......hone your basics, or you will be wasting your time and your finished product will be something you (probably) would not be proud of.

A model sitting on 4 wheels, a body that sits parallel to the ground, an engine not canted to one side (unless it's suppose to be), and panel fit and finish are just a few of the areas I work on all the time and these are very basic. The more you hone your basics, the better your work will continue to be. Look at Dirk Joseph's work. He spends countless hours on engineering, fabricating, and mocking up that most do not realize it when they see his work. They think he just "modified" a few kit pieces and that is all. He does it so well, you think it's just "modified". It is normally scratch-built or engineered so well, that it looks correct and acceptable in the real world.

Nice work from both David and J. You both have talents.

And I'm not trying to highjack your thread J, just wanted to add my 2 cents.

David

[Harry P.]

My "high tech" equipment consists of a Dremel tool, the only power tool I use. The rest are files, sandpaper, X-acto knife... the usual stuff we all have. And despite my lack of a fully equipped machine shop, I think I do ok. Sure, there are things I can't do without a lathe or a milling machine... but that doesn't stop me from building detailed models.

[Guest Johnny]

A square, flat, triangular and round files. Some tiny oval shaped file I found next to the curb. Testors sand paper. Emory boards with some polotitians name on them, clothes pins, metal spring clips for paper out of the trash at school, tweezer, exacto knife box set a dremmel and a cordless drill I found in the road! Lots of assorted rubber bands. Oh and I finally bought a hobby saw blade for my exacto set!

Great thread! Give yourself a big pat on the back Mr Sauber!

[Jeff Sauber]

A square, flat, triangular and round files. Some tiny oval shaped file I found next to the curb. Testors sand paper. Emory boards with some polotitians name on them, clothes pins, metal spring clips for paper out of the trash at school, tweezer, exacto knife box set a dremmel and a cordless drill I found in the road! Lots of assorted rubber bands. Oh and I finally bought a hobby saw blade for my exacto set!

Great thread! Give yourself a big pat on the back Mr Sauber!

None of my threads are ever complete without an appearance and contribution from Johnnymeister...Thanks ole' chap....

This thread is a wrap!!...................

Oh, one last thing... what are "polotitions"?....

Edited September 1, 2010 by J. Sauber

[Guest Johnny]

None of my threads are ever complete without an appearance and contribution from Johnnymeister...Thanks ole' chap....

This thread is a wrap!!...................

Oh, one last thing... what are "polotitions"?....

It was a guy running for City Trustee but I didn't vote for him, didn't trust him to be trustee!

But I did snag a hand full of his emory boards!

Like I said in the other thread! The meds are kicking in!

[Jeff Sauber]

It was a guy running for City Trustee but I didn't vote for him, didn't trust him to be trustee!

But I did snag a hand full of his emory boards!

Like I said in the other thread! The meds are kicking in!

Meds are awesome....It's best to take em by the handful and not by the recommended dosage in order to achieve the maximum effect....

[Guest Johnny]

Meds are awesome....It's best to take em by the handful and not by the recommended dosage in order to achieve the maximum effect....

Seen way too many guys do that! Not for me!

I hate taking meds for anything and avoid it if I can. But alas with age it seems to come with the territory!

I only take 1 pain pill with 1 tylenol at night and in the morning to take the edge off.

After the hip replacement I still have too much pain. They said it could be a metal allergy which I would have to live with or get a ceramic replacement or it may be nerves. They said wait 1 year and then if it is still painful they will test to see if it is nerves and if so do a block!

Life's full of little surprises is it not?!

[Jeff Sauber]

Seen way too many guys do that! Not for me!

I hate taking meds for anything and avoid it if I can. But alas with age it seems to come with the territory!

I only take 1 pain pill with 1 tylenol at night and in the morning to take the edge off.

After the hip replacement I still have too much pain. They said it could be a metal allergy which I would have to live with or get a ceramic replacement or it may be nerves. They said wait 1 year and then if it is still painful they will test to see if it is nerves and if so do a block!

Life's full of little surprises is it not?!

True, you have to be careful with the meds. I usually avoid them as well if I can. I have to be pretty bad off to start downing the pills. I hate some of the side effects and such. Sometimes it's necessary though....Good luck with your hip surgery recovery. I can imagine it must be painful at times..

[Guest Johnny]

Here is my current work area!

[highway]

I think these two gentlemen have mentioned something that I hope will not be lost by anyone. Buying tools/aftermarket stuff will NOT improve your building skills or make you a better modeler.

I see a lot of models, with tons of detail, but the basics are missing. Therefore, you have a model, that is not that well done, with $100+ of photo etch, and it's still a model that is not that well done. For the gentleman who asked if he should hone his basics or try a really high detailed build......hone your basics, or you will be wasting your time and your finished product will be something you (probably) would not be proud of.

David

David, even though I edited your post down some, these are the most important points that everyone needs to understand. The fact of the matter is, and what Jeff was wanting this thread to get across, if any of us buy thousands of dollars of lathes and other machine equipment and everything in Detail Master's and Model Car Garage's catalogs, how does that make a better model? Does all of that fancy high dollar stuff build the model for you? Of course not!

My opinion, and the way I have always judged at contests, is if you DO NOT have the basics covered, i.e. mold seams, glue mars, sink marks, etc., and have not spent the time on those basics, it does not matter to me if you have $100 of photoetch or tons of scratchbuilt do-dads made on your $1000 lathe, I'm passing the model by! My simple thoughts are this, if you put $100 of P.E. on a pile of junk, you have a $100 pile of junk!!

[Karmodeler2]

if you put $100 of P.E. on a pile of junk, you have a $100 pile of junk!!

Thanks for putting it in the best terms I have heard so far!!!

Well Said!!!!! Could not agree with you more.

David

[highway]

Thanks for putting it in the best terms I have heard so far!!!

Well Said!!!!! Could not agree with you more.

David

You're welcome!