ismaelg Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hello, I thought I was on the ballpark, but I suspected I was using the wrong setup. After all, it's an SMT electronics setup. So I played around with the temp, tip, solder composition etc and I think I'm now on the right track. Still a bit heavy but each solder joint is getting better than the previous one. I'll retouch the first ones, but overall, I like it. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart-Resins Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 What scale is that??I take it you are a novice on brass.Not too bad for a try.I take it you are using a electric soldering system??Good for something with a lot of joints.If you are doing something with few joint, might want to consider a torch with a silver solder(better with brass) without flux in it and use a liquid flux.Will draw right into the seem.Heat sinks are essential here though!!When I first tried I beet myself up on the amount of solder though.Learned its not as much how it first comes out as it is after clean up!!You do need to make sure the solder is done right for a good solid joint that wont brake if dropped.But it is cleanup of the solder.Throw a wire brush in your dremel and go to town.Just be carful in where the broken of bristled go.Make sure you wear shoes in that room for a while as those bristles hurt like a son of a gun if you get one up under the skin in your foot!!!HAHAHA I would like to see more.I love brass!!!Once you do it, you will keep wanting to do it!!!!Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismaelg Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hi Jody, Thanks for the feedback. This is 1/25. I have experience with electronics SMT soldering, but this is my first attempt at soldering brass. A while ago I tried to solder brass tubing without success. The key here is that the equipment I have available is designed for SMT electronics. Small pointy tip on a Weller temp controlled soldering station. The solder and the flux are also more suited for BGA components than brass roll bars in scale. I thought about the torch, but at this time, this is more of a curiosity than anything else. After seeing the work of people like yourself, Stingray69 and others, I had to try it! So this is in part your fault I'll keep practicing and will start looking around for a suitable torch. If I can add this skill to my modeling "toolbox", I think it will actually be helpful in my helicopter models as well as in cars. After these pics were taken, I used some solder wick and cleaned some of the excess solder. This solder is also easy to file down. After a good cleanup, I guess primer and paint will be the final judges.... Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart-Resins Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I will admit that from the sounds of things what you have is great for lower temp soldering.How high of a temp does that machine go to??This is good for multiple joints.Use your heat sinks and make sure when using a solder, that it is best no matter what solder you use that it is a fluxless solder and that you use seperate solder.Heck, if you saw my bike frame, I got totaly fed up trying to use a torch and switched to a pen and plumbers solder.I had some clumps like on your roll cage, so thus why I stated that good joints and clean up is essential!!I think once you clean it up and paint you should be satisfied.It was on my surfn T frame I used a torch.I also doubled up on the tubes using two different sizes on that to make sure it was a sturdy frame.It passed the test of all three of my children.I then threw it onto the floor.(I held my heart for saftey reasons)Never once broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismaelg Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Jody, Funny you mention that. I accidentally dropped it to the floor while test fitting it. My heart stopped for a second or two, but it passed the non-intentional drop test with flying colors. The equipment can go up to 850 degrees, but interestingly, I found the best joints were done between 750 and 800. (Sounds like a credit score commercial ) Going up to 850, the flux was consumed too fast and did not do its job. At the new setting the solder flows very nicely. I have since then cleaned it, retouch the joints and lightly sanded it, and it is ready for primer. I like it so much it is almost a shame to paint it Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart-Resins Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Wow, now I have a question for you oh master!!What is the technical name for that machine again.I like soldering with the torch, but would like more control.The recomemned temp for soldering with the silver solder is around 750 deg. That should do you just fine.Esp. since you have the "wick" to go with it ect.You should be in good shape with your set up I would assume.I know what you mean about painting the brass.Basiacally everyone I know who works in brass has to fight that battle at least once.Like with my one frame, I want to chrome it to make it better.Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismaelg Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 The machine is a Weller Ungar 921ZX. I have no idea how much it costs because I borrowed it from my work. Here is a picture of it. Do you need some wick? I can probably send you some. By the way, here's the roll bar after cleanup. Ready for primer. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Ismael, What your doing looks great! Really! However, I think this will help you... with three things that will give you cleaner and stronger joints: #1 Buy and use Acid solder flux. Use it sparingly and clean up with hot water and Comet or Ajax cleanser and an old toothbrush #2 Buy and use only Silver Solder. The addition of silver makes it stronger but requires a slight bit more heat. The iron your using will be perfect! The joints will be way stronger allowing you to use a lot less solder making the joints more realistic. #3 Clean the area to be soldered with steel wool or 400 grit sand paper. Here are a couple of pictures of my recent soldering for an example. (please excuse the fact that they are of a slot car chassis) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart-Resins Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Thats looks really good Jairus!! Ismaelg That is looking good too.Now Im gonna want to try to find a soldering iron like that and give it a try.Would be much better for my uses I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray69 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Izzy that looks pretty good especially after your clean up work. You've gotten some good tips so far but just let me add my thoughts... For starters the tubing your using looks a little large for 1/25. I stick with 1/16" when it comes to roll cages. This is the process I use when soldering brass. By no means is this the only way, works for me so I stuck with. I use an $8 40 watt iron I found at my LHS. I prefer the iron to a torch because it allows me to get into tight spots with out loosening other joints. If you can get your hands on silver solder, get it. If not I use rosin core. Not as strong but still takes a major beating! -Add flux to the joint being soldered, not too much or it gets messy. Melt the flux and heat the brass using a mini torch or a soldering iron. A small butane torch is handy. -Add more flux a few seconds later but don't do anymore melting or heating -Add a little bit of solder to the tip of your iron. The amount will really depend on the tubing size, but its much easier to add more solder then it is to remove it :wink: -Apply the tip of the iron to the joint and allow the solder to flow for a few seconds. If you got plenty of flux on the joint, the solder should have welded it all up. If needed add a just a tad of flux and then add more solder. If you did this right there should little to no clean up needed. These are just pics of one the frames I've done in the past... chances are you've seen them but just in case No clean up was needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart-Resins Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Stingray that is quite a amazing frame considering the size.Wow!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismaelg Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Jairus: Thanks for the tips and the feedback. I'll be on the lookout for those things. BTW, that chassis looks great. The solder work is top notch. Tommy: You are the first to blame for me to try this . That frame is inspiring me ever since I saw it for the first time. The process I follow is very similar to what you use, so I'm in the ballpark there. Now, I have a question: Rod vs tubing: is there any advantage of one over the other? Rod bends easier, tubing needs something inside. other than that, any other difference? I'm happy with my first try, but I have a lot of catch up to do behind you guys! Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Oh Nice Ismael, now you got it!....Ismael Iron Works! Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zebm1 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 All of these tips are Kool Izzy, but remember this above all.....solder flows toward Heat and tha cleaner is tha joint yu hope to weld, tha better will be tha joint. I use a pencil iron, with a variable voltage transformer. Welding iz a hard skill to learn and become a master of Izz. :wink: :twisted: Zeb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Naw, what's hard is to remember is NOT to breath in when the flux vaporizes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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