115-year-old electric car gets same 40 miles to the charge as Chevy Volt

[Harry P.]

road going vehicles running on propane is not new in the slightest

I know. But I mean expand that into personal vehicles, not just commercial.

[MachinistMark]

thats what i meant harry, there have been propane powered personal vehicles for years

[Art Anderson]

It really is amazing battery science hasn't progressed that much in the last 100 years in terms of actual usable capcity.

Perhaps someday. What I don't understand is, apart from cost, why these electric cars just don't line the roof with a photo-voltaic cell and use that as a quasi-charger, with the plug-in for full charge. I would think that even if it were at reduced power, that would at least get you were you need to go.

Charlie Larkin

For starters, everyone seems to be looking for that "magic bullet", which has not happened, in fact it may never happen. Battery power will always have its limitations. Solar on a car? Not unless one is willing to put up with a very small car, and drive that only in the daytime, and on days when the sun is out. Trouble is, and something nobody seems to realize is, that solar panels deteriorate very quickly as they get dirty, even snowflakes can diminish their effectiveness (I saw that in a paper written by a Purdue research professor and a couple of his grad students just this past week!).

That said, electric cars do have their use, especially in medium size cities like Lafayette, where I live. The commutes are not that long--40 miles on a charge will cover most urban use here--but not if you live in a suburb of say, LA, San Francisco, Chicago, New York City--where the distances can be MUCH greater than the battery range of any electric known to exist even today.

More promising is hydrogen, which can equal the portability of gasoline or diesel, even though the energy cost going in to making hydrogen is a LOT higher, at least this gas has the potential of meeting not only the portability of gasoline, along with zero emissions (the only byproduct of hydrogen combustion is H20, WATER).

But in any event, the infrastructure for delivering whatever alternative fuel source has to be in place before it can find universal acceptance. That means charging stations that are readily available, or at least battery change out stations (they are working with those in Japan now).

Biofuels you say? Frankly, there is not nearly enough farmland available to produce enough feedstock for all the biofuels (soybean oil or ethanol) to fuel all the vehicular needs of this country, and I don't see that changing at all. But that said, even biofuel will have its place.

Of course, nobody ever considers gasoline made from coal, which the US has several hundred years supply of--but it's not at all politically correct to even mention that, so I guess I am politically incorrect.

Art

[Erik Smith]

Biofuels you say? Frankly, there is not nearly enough farmland available to produce enough feedstock for all the biofuels (soybean oil or ethanol) to fuel all the vehicular needs of this country, and I don't see that changing at all. But that said, even biofuel will have its place.

Art

Not to mention massive destruction of Amazon rainforest already taking place to grow soy.

I think it will be a combination of technologies or something we haven't explored yet that will be our replacement for "straight" gas vehicles.

The subject of hydrogen has come up a few times here - what the heck happened to all he hydrogen hype? Maybe we are getting acclimated to higher gas prices?

Edited October 16, 2011 by Coyotehybrids

[Harry P.]

The subject of hydrogen has come up a few times here - what the heck happened to all he hydrogen hype? Maybe we are getting acclimated to higher gas prices?

Yeah, hydrogen powered cars were going to save us all... unlimited fuel supply, zero emissions. Sounds too good to be true, but they were all over the news a while ago. I also wonder what ever happened to that idea.

[Darin Bastedo]

Another point... electricity doesn't come from magic pixie dust. It has to be generated somehow... and these days a lot of our electricity is still produced by coal-burning plants. So driving an electric car is not necessarily some sort of total "green" nirvana. You're still charging up your eco-mobile with electricity that had to be generated somehow.

While this is true, the idea that electric vehicles improve the air quality has to do with the fact that the energy they consume is made off site, meaning that there isn't a coal burning plant in the middle of LA. This allows the poluttion from this energy to be dispersed in an area with less pollution, thus cleaning up the air in LA. is it a perfect solution? no but until we find one, it will help the areas with the worst air quality problems.

[Aaronw]

There has actually been a huge improvement in battery technology, just look at laptop computers and cell phones. I know the rechargable batteries of 20 years ago couldn't come close to the performance of modern NiMH, and Li-Ion batteries.

Personally I just don't think electric is a practical power source for vehicles. It works ok for light rail commuter trains, and street cars, with direct connections to the power grid (3rd rail or overhead cable) but you don't see electric trains replacing the "hybrid" diesel electric locomotives.

Biofuels you say? Frankly, there is not nearly enough farmland available to produce enough feedstock for all the biofuels (soybean oil or ethanol) to fuel all the vehicular needs of this country, and I don't see that changing at all. But that said, even biofuel will have its place.

Of course, nobody ever considers gasoline made from coal, which the US has several hundred years supply of--but it's not at all politically correct to even mention that, so I guess I am politically incorrect.

Art

There is actually alot more of this going on than most people know. I did a paper for school last spring looking at new technologies for disposing of forest waste (brush, logging slash etc). I didn't expect to find much, and thought it would be mostly hypothetical, but there is a fair amount being developed and even used. There is no need to grow crops, biofuels capable of being used as petroleum stocks to make gas and diesel fuels can be made from most organic material, forest and farm waste, animal biproducts / waste, and a lot of garbage currently just going to landfills. This waste material can be burned directly to power electrical plants, gassified (the process also used to make gas from coal) and burned like natural gas, or used with a bioconversion plant to make a petroleum like oil used like a heavy heating oil, or refined into gas or diesel.

I think your last comment is a driving force behind the relative invisibility of these processes. Anything that supports the use of petroleum fuels, even if not drilled, is not as popular as electric power with many even if it is just as clean and ecologically sound.

There was a similar bias in the 90s against CNG and hybrid cars until it was apparent that electric cars just were not going to be economically sound at that time.

[Skydime]

You know, I honestly think it is kind of scary how close Back to the Future was over twenty years ago. Mr Fusion isn't really something that is too far fetched nowadays. Alternative fuels are a great idea. I think I would rather worry about how to get the best performance out of an alternatively fueled vehicle than worry about not getting as far because I turn on the AC or the stereo on an electric.

[my80malibu]

The last time I was in Phoenix, the cab driver said that cabs in the city run on natural gas. If they can run a fleet of cabs that way, why not expand into personal vehicles?

Natural gas is widely popular in Canada. It has been used here in Phoenix mainly on Transit busses, Taxi cabs, and City vehicles. CNG is a high maintenance item the high demands placed on the ignition system causes a need for more frequent Tune ups. The CNG stations themselves have pumps that have to be rebuilt or replaced on average every 3 years not including normal maintenance. it became popular here Partly because we are in a Valley. The pollution from Exhaust and dirt and dust just lingers here causing upper respitory problems and a Brown cloud. Manufacturer's of CNG conversion Kits such as GFI,MOGAS,TECHNOCARB,and EMPCO. can supply conversion kits but have not figured a way to supply Parts.when you get a part the markup is usually very high we have seen as much as 3 times what the original manufacturer sold it for. those cost and maintenance of one of these vehicle's is just to much for the Average person around here can stand to pay. We are just hard working people here the Politicians have all the Money. for s a hort time here early on We had a Politician who proposed tax incentives for people who bought CNG cars and you could have had a Station plumbed in at your house with a compressor and all Slow Fill is what they call it. it would emit gas fumes and you had to have it outdoors. (you cant park one of these in a Garage)! I will say that of all of the systems I have been around definately the GM based Empco system was by far the most trouble free.