Hybrid goes racing.

[fumi]

Americans are lazy, period. We want it all, cheap, and don't want to work for it.

That is not necessarily a bad thing. Laziness drives innovations, and that is what put the US in the forefront of the technical field.

We have let ourselves go from #1 in manufacturing to #1 in service-driven marketing. We rely on everyone else to make our own goods, and until THAT changes, the import/export exchange will stay right where it is. When WE no longer need the rest of the world is when it will become 'fair' again.

Not having to manufacture your own goods freed up a lot of resources for R&D, which puts you ahead of the world in terms of innovations and technological advances.

The down side, though, is that it also put a lot of people out of work.

[fumi]

A little piggy back here, Americans live by excess. Not very many other country's will buy a $50l Dzl pickup to tow the trailer they bought for camping three times each year and then let it set or put it around the rest of the time. ( now I'm not saying that the rule for all truck owners) but i see a lot of this in my day to day job. Trucks, cars, you name it. Heck, I have a boat in my garage I spent 100 bucks on every month last year and only had it out 4 times.......those were four very expensive weekend if you added it up...I don't like to think about it lol

If it makes you feel any better, to get the same boat it would cost me $150,000 just to get a membership in a yacht club to park it, plus $3000 per month to hire someone to tend for the boat and pay for the miscellaneous fees.

One thing going for you guys is that land is relatively cheap in the US, which makes it affordable to live large.

[moparmagiclives]

If it makes you feel any better, to get the same boat it would cost me $150,000 just to get a membership in a yacht club to park it, plus $3000 per month to hire someone to tend for the boat and pay for the miscellaneous fees.

One thing going for you guys is that land is relatively cheap in the US, which makes it affordable to live large.

That's a serious boat man !!! 18 feet of inboard fun is enough for me.

Land can come cheap around here, but the taxes can bite you real quick. A good friend of mine owns 20 acres out in the middle of no where's ville. Has been assessed forever at about 4k, last year someone found some yuppy from the coast to pay BIG money for a plot. They just got the county assessment papers last week. 59 THOUSAND DOLLARS !!! Now they get to pay taxes on that assessment because of what it could be worth ...

[001slick001]

Thanks Bradley I'm still new to the form and didn't know Andy was only 13.Tom did Honda,Toyota,Nissan,Mitsubishi,Hyundai ask the government for a bail out? No that's right they build car people want to buy.You see all of those company's have plants in America.Paying UNION WORKERS to build these cars.People want to work at these factory's,they like having job security.Not the same as Chrysler.Before they closed down the Heselwood Mo plant, they had to recall the Dodge Ram trucks they just built because the Mexican pistons didn't work with the Canadian engine blocks.Did the worker care? No. See if they left before the pant closed they wouldn't get there severance package.By the way that 300M you like so much it was designed and built by Mercedes,back when they were DimlierChrysler.You know Mercedes that GERMAN company.O BY THE WAY THEY ALSO GOT BAILED OUT TWICE!!!!!!!!Andy wasn't ever born the first time.

[001slick001]

now that's cool!

[Scale-Master]

Nothing like torque for drag racing. What a great launch!

[Junkman]

Nothing like torque for drag racing. What a great launch!

Nothing like torque for racing, period.

Torque is for racing, horsepower is for bench racing.

[moparmagiclives]

Thats just gota be wierd behind the wheel, I would have to use some of that juice to pump some open header vibes through a sub woofer or something. I've heard that electric trials bike racing is getting hot, because they can do it almost anywhere due to the slow speed and there is no noise pollution. problems. Times are a changin friends !

[BKcustoms]

While I would not personally drive a Prius by choice (sorry, I dont like the look of them) I am interested to see how competitive it is once it goes racing. And I am curious how many more hybrids we will see go racing in the near future. Also, I would imagine they won't be making very many pit stops for fuel compared to some of the other cars, which could end up being a big time saver.

Edited January 22, 2012 by BKcustoms

[001slick001]

You got that right Shane.There was a episode of Finding Bigfoot on Animal Planet were they used those bikes.They looked really cool.

[sports850]

While I would not personally drive a Prius by choice (sorry, I dont like the look of them) I am interested to see how competitive it is once it goes racing. And I am curious how many more hybrids we will see go racing in the near future. Also, I would imagine they won't be making very many pit stops for fuel compared to some of the other cars, which could end up being a big time saver.

I don't know , everything I've read so far on hybrids being pushed hard (and with decent tyres , they are fitted with narrow , low rolling resistance tyres from standard) puts them as being less economical than conventional cars , they are economical when driven in the city environment but flat out the extra weight of the batteries and electric motor robs economy . Whether the combination of electric and petrol engines helps in power delivery (electric drive might give an edge when the petrol motor is below optimum revs perhaps ???) I don't know but it would be interesting to see all the figures from one racing instead of just publicity figures

[moparmagiclives]

OH NO! not more of those Hybrid racecars looks like Toyota is pretty serious about bringing Hybrid technology to the racetrack

Toyota builds slot cars now? Are they 1/24 or 1/32 scale ? Hahaaa

[Swifster]

Thanks Bradley I'm still new to the form and didn't know Andy was only 13.Tom did Honda,Toyota,Nissan,Mitsubishi,Hyundai ask the government for a bail out? No that's right they build car people want to buy.You see all of those company's have plants in America.Paying UNION WORKERS to build these cars.People want to work at these factory's,they like having job security.Not the same as Chrysler.Before they closed down the Heselwood Mo plant, they had to recall the Dodge Ram trucks they just built because the Mexican pistons didn't work with the Canadian engine blocks.Did the worker care? No. See if they left before the pant closed they wouldn't get there severance package.By the way that 300M you like so much it was designed and built by Mercedes,back when they were DimlierChrysler.You know Mercedes that GERMAN company.O BY THE WAY THEY ALSO GOT BAILED OUT TWICE!!!!!!!!Andy wasn't ever born the first time.

Augie, what foreign car plant in this country is unionized? None!

Mercedes buried Chrysler. They stole Chryslers $9B rainy day fund and put out uncompetitive c r a p like the Caliber. Chrysler's quality went down hill under Daimler as well. Shortly after the merger, it was Chrysler keeping Mercedes afloat because THEIR quality was c r a p. The 2nd Chrysler bail out was due to Daimler and Cerberus. You need to spend money to make money. Fiat, as a partner, has at least made the investment and it shows in the products over the last two years.

As for the foreign c r a p you mentioned, why would the US bail out Asian companies. Our government sold the manufacturing segments in the US down the river. And that includes the auto industry. Unrealistic and unnecessary CAFE regulations only played to foreign car companies who were building high MPG cars for Asia and Europe. American car companies had to build cars Americans didn't want to meet regulations while Japan Inc just sent off the shelf cars here. "Well they bought Toyotas, Hondas, etc.". Doubt this? When the government basically outlawed large cars, everyone bought trucks and SUV's. They traded their Country Squires and Caprices for Expeditions and Tahoes. There is profit in trucks and non in Focus or Cobalt sales.

Ever notice how Toyota and Nissan have tried over the last 10-15 years to sell competitive trucks made in Texas against the Big 3, including Dodge? Notice how they are still uncompetitive? I guess the Big 3 still make a great truck, while Nissan and Toyota engines (not to mention that girlie Ridgeline Honda tries to sell) sludge up and fail and make their customers beg for some warranty help. Nope, you wouldn't notice because you've been blinded by the 'rising sun' while drinking sour Kool-Ade.

The bail outs were the fault of our own government. This 56MPG c r a p car to make the Sierra Club happy is just more of the same. Pelosi and her tree huggers push Electric and Hybrid c r a p while they work to keep clean diesel engines out of the country (what do you mean poor Toyota, Honda and Nissan don't have diesels...).

And last, our government touts free trade. What garbage. If GM sends a Cruze to Japan, they'll tax the hell out of it. It's hard to sell a $50K Cruze to anyone. Treat the Japanese the way they treat us and you won't see anyone buying a $50K Corolla, Civic or Sentra. Let's do fair trade and see how the Big 3 do.

And Augie, if you got up and took a ride in a current Big 3 car, you'll see the quality is there. I'll take anything the Big 3 puts out against any Jap c r a p.

Oh, one last thing about the bail out. Had McCain become President and let GM and Chrysler fail, as he said he would have done, this country would be in a depression. Ford would have been sucked down with the other two. Those non-unionized foreign car plants you spoke of would have closed. No way? Where would they have gotten their parts from? The supplier network would have colapsed with them. No parts means no cars. There would have been another 3 to 4 million jobless people collecting unemployment. Even Bush was smart enough not to let GM & Chrysler die. Oh, and Chrysler already paid the government back.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Swifster

[moparmagiclives]

Augie, what foreign car plant in this country is unionized? None!

Mercedes buried Chrysler. They stole Chryslers $9B rainy day fund and put out uncompetitive c r a p like the Caliber. Chrysler's quality went down hill under Daimler as well. Shortly after the merger, it was Chrysler keeping Mercedes afloat because THEIR quality was c r a p. The 2nd Chrysler bail out was due to Daimler and Cerberus. You need to spend money to make money. Fiat, as a partner, has at least made the investment and it shows in the products over the last two years.

A

The only reason Chrysler had anything holding together on the road in the last 10 years was due to Mercedes technology, the nag1 comes to mind. And as far as Fiat, they have had nothing to do with the products in the last two years, the dart will be the first vehicle that Fiat has been involved with. They have had to much to do on a corp level

[fumi]

American car companies had to build cars Americans didn't want to meet regulations while Japan Inc just sent off the shelf cars here.

...

The bail outs were the fault of our own government. This 56MPG c r a p car to make the Sierra Club happy is just more of the same. Pelosi and her tree huggers push Electric and Hybrid c r a p while they work to keep clean diesel engines out of the country (what do you mean poor Toyota, Honda and Nissan don't have diesels...).

No, American car companies built such garbage like the Pinto and the Vega and expected Americans to swallow them hook, line and sinker just because they are American cars. Many of those who did wouldn't fall for it again when time came for replacing their POS, and bought a Honda or a Toyota instead.

Toyota and Nissan has had diesel in their line up for well over 30 years. They just didn't bother to sell them in the US as your regulations that tilted heavily against diesel cars.

And last, our government touts free trade. What garbage. If GM sends a Cruze to Japan, they'll tax the hell out of it. It's hard to sell a $50K Cruze to anyone. Treat the Japanese the way they treat us and you won't see anyone buying a $50K Corolla, Civic or Sentra. Let's do fair trade and see how the Big 3 do.

I have said it already, there is no tariff or quota for import cars in Japan. If you don't believe it, look it up.

GM had tried to sell a myriad of mainstream American cars in Japan, with dismal results. The Cavalier was sold through Toyota and priced very favourably against the Corolla and the Civic, and was backed by Toyota's factory warranty. Yet it sold so poor Toyota had to sell them to various government agencies at cost to clear stock. GM had had very high hope for Saturn in the mid 90's, they even built a right hand drive version just for Japan. They finally pulled the plug after 3 years amid abysmal sales. The cars are simply not competitive against the homegrown Japanese cars. They are smart enough to not bother with it again.

The only reason American cars don't sell in Japan is because no one wants them. If you have the right car for their market, they will buy it. The 1st gen Taurus wagon, for example, was quite a success. I don't understand why but it just hit it off with the Japanese, and they bought quite a number of them.

And if GM were to try selling the Cruze in Japan, it will be built in Korea and sold through the Suzuki dealership network. It would make zero business sense for GM to ship it from North America when their affiliates right across the ocean from Japan builds the same car. And while they don't feel the Cruze has a business case in Japan, they are already doing that for the Sonic.

Edited January 26, 2012 by fumi

[fumi]

Oh, one last thing about the bail out. Had McCain become President and let GM and Chrysler fail, as he said he would have done, this country would be in a depression. Ford would have been sucked down with the other two. Those non-unionized foreign car plants you spoke of would have closed. No way? Where would they have gotten their parts from? The supplier network would have colapsed with them. No parts means no cars. There would have been another 3 to 4 million jobless people collecting unemployment. Even Bush was smart enough not to let GM & Chrysler die. Oh, and Chrysler already paid the government back.

Doubt that would happen. My dad up until last summer worked for one of the major part supplers in Canada that make parts for all manufacturers that build cars in North America. Their business took a heavy toll amid the numerous factory shutdowns by the Big 3 in the last couple years; they were practically not buying any parts. The only thing that had kept him employed was the new, expanding businesses from Toyota and Honda that filled the void left by the Big 3.

[SuperStockAndy]

I like that Tom Allen guy, he's got a lot of points...

No, American car companies built such garbage like the Pinto and the Vega and expected Americans to swallow them hook, line and sinker just because they are American cars. Many of those who did wouldn't fall for it again when time came for replacing their POS, and bought a Honda or a Toyota instead.

Those cars aren't garbage, they can be fun if you get rid of the stock engines. They make awesome little drag cars.

And the only reason they were invented is because of the fuel crisis in the '70's. If it wouldn't have been for that, muscle cars might have survived a little bit longer before turning into grandma cars.

Edited January 26, 2012 by SuperStockAndy

[Scale-Master]

Those cars aren't garbage, they can be fun if you get rid of the stock engines. They make awesome little drag cars.

As someone who owned a couple of those cars, (built over a quarter century before you were even born) and drag raced one of them, I can state firsthand they were cheap and poorly built cars. Putting a more powerful engine into them (as I did) results in the weaker parts becoming even more apparent. I don't know why I continue to be astounded by your lack of actual knowledge and ability to illustrate it.

[Casey]

Those cars aren't garbage, they can be fun if you get rid of the stock engines. They make awesome little drag cars.

He's not talking about how you can modify them from stock to make them better- you can do that with any vehicle. The Vega was one of GM's worst vehicles ever produced and turned many people off from buying another GM vehicle. I suspect even many GM loyalists would honestly admit the Vega seriously damaged GM's reputation with the car buying public.

And the only reason they were invented is because of the fuel crisis in the '70's. If it wouldn't have been for that, muscle cars might have survived a little bit longer before turning into grandma cars.

Crises, as in more than one. Yes, the compact Vega/Astre and Pinto/Bobcat were designed to compete with smaller, more efficient vehicles, most of which were coming from Japan, but there were many other factors involved with the demise of inefficient, large American cars besides the cost of oil.

The Pinto's lack of rear fuel tank crash protection (and Ford's decision to pay out possible lawsuits vs. fixing the problem) is what gave the Pinto a poor reputation, and also hurt Ford's rep with the public.

And we haven't even mentioned the Aspen/Volare yet...

[SuperStockAndy]

As someone who owned a couple of those cars, (built over a quarter century before you were even born) and drag raced one of them, I can state firsthand they were cheap and poorly built cars. Putting a more powerful engine into them (as I did) results in the weaker parts becoming even more apparent. I don't know why I continue to be astounded by your lack of actual knowledge and ability to illustrate it.

Don't know why you continue to be astonished by my lack of knowledge, huh?

That's a lack of knowledge, HOW??

[SuperStockAndy]

You know, it sure is funny how, when I AGREE with someone (when I'm not even the one who says it), I'M the one that gets all the BS. Yeah, go figure.

[Scale-Master]

You know, it sure is funny how, when I AGREE with someone (when I'm not even the one who says it), I'M the one that gets all the BS. Yeah, go figure.

What exactly are you agreeing with? This time?

Wouldn't be the first time you agreed with both sides once it was pointed out thet you did not know what you were spouting off about.

Parroting things you heard is far from knowing what the heck you are babbling about. And it does nothing to make you more knowledgeable either, even if you think it does. But then what does a 13 year old who can't even fix his bicycle know about real car mechanicals that all but disappeared long before he was born?

You think you get all the B.S.? Funny, I was under the impression you were providing it with most of your posts. Yeah, go figure... Or just go...

[SuperStockAndy]

Oh, the irony.

Apparently, you should be expecting a PM from me with a picture of the GRENADED part. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, I was agreeing with pretty much everything Tom said.

Look, I don't care if you know more about cars than I do, but that doesn't give you any reason to direct that kind of attitude toward me.

And my "lack of knowledge" would not have allowed to to successfully rebuild a small engine. Now, not to sound like I know it all, but I figured out the cubic inches of it.

Edited January 26, 2012 by SuperStockAndy

[SuperStockAndy]

I fail to see why everyone says I know it all.

If I knew it all, I wouldn't be in this argument right now.

How did this thread get brought up again anyway?

Edited January 26, 2012 by SuperStockAndy

[Scale-Master]

arguing with young Andy is like arguing with this,

the last time i "broke out the brick" was on Nick Winter, another young kid who came to the forums and thought he knew everything and would boast of all sorts of wild things, argue with anyone who tried to correct or help him, etc.

it's like deja vu all over again................

I bet the brick has more knowledge cubed, it looks like it could be older, maybe more mature? But ironically, I'm not sure it is not as dense.