Die Cast Opinions

[sjordan2]

I should have mentioned that I'm referring specifically to my 1:18 (closer to 1:15) Bburago Bugatti T59 kit. Larger kit, larger issues, as you guys have noted.

Edited February 2, 2012 by sjordan2

[Scale-Master]

Makes sense that normal styrene painting techniques would follow once you've gotten to primer, but I'm concerned about the prior steps. I've heard of different types of paint strippers, such as aircraft stripper, to remove the baked-on factory paint (which I would prefer to do so detail holds up, instead of just painting over the paint). I'm told the primer should be self-etching -- any best choices?

What tools would you recommend to remove things like high-relief rivets and other exterior parts that are cast as part of the body, or to drill holes? What about chopping a top? These are considerations where I don't think an X-Acto knife or regular sandpaper would work. Is a rotary tool a good choice? If so, can you recommend the proper grinding wheels, drills or saws?

I like the old Berryman carburetor cleaner for stripping, but you can't get it in Calfornia any more. Jasco stripper works well, the gel is my choice.

I have used self etching primer, but have had no problems using regular Krylon primer either. I like the way it sands.

Files and emery cloth are the first round abrasives, and occasionally the Dremel, ( I prefer hand tols over the Dremel, but sometimes it is the best option). I also like my small hacksaw, it is my choice for cutting off parts.

[sjordan2]

I like the old Berryman carburetor cleaner for stripping, but you can't get it in Calfornia any more. Jasco stripper works well, the gel is my choice.

I have used self etching primer, but have had no problems using regular Krylon primer either. I like the way it sands.

Files and emery cloth are the first round abrasives, and occasionally the Dremel, ( I prefer hand tols over the Dremel, but sometimes it is the best option). I also like my small hacksaw, it is my choice for cutting off parts.

There is so much online misinformation on this subject. Everything you've mentioned is excellent material for a photo tutorial in the magazine. I nominate Mark to write it!

I might add that I don't see a need for a separate forum subject on building diecasts, which can be handled with existing topics like Workbench and Under Glass, but it wouldn't hurt to have reviews of new diecasts on the forum as in the magazine.

Edited February 2, 2012 by sjordan2

[eviltwincustoms]

Makes sense that normal styrene painting techniques would follow once you've gotten to primer, but I'm concerned about the prior steps. I've heard of different types of paint strippers, such as aircraft stripper, to remove the baked-on factory paint (which I would prefer to do so detail holds up, instead of just painting over the paint). I'm told the primer should be self-etching -- any best choices?

What tools would you recommend to remove things like high-relief rivets and other exterior parts that are cast as part of the body, or to drill holes? What about chopping a top? These are considerations where I don't think an X-Acto knife or regular sandpaper would work. Is a rotary tool a good choice? If so, can you recommend the proper grinding wheels, drills or saws?

Thanks for clearing that up.... Let me see if I can answer some of your questions.. No keep in mind these are my ways of doing things, and others my do something different.

Just like anything... You don't bring a Pocket Knife to a Gun fight... lol so you are correct to cut a diecast the #11 xacto knife wont work. Same as with working on a 1:1 car same principles apply. Some sort of Rotary tool "Air or Electric", so depending on what you have access to. Most here if you don't work on 1:1's for body work, then you are more than likely going to use a dremel moto tool.

As for Cut off wheels for the dremel, I use the Dremel Cut-Off wheels #409, the container comes with 36 pieces. Dremel makes a thicker cut off wheel but I don't recommend those because they take out a much larger relief when cutting something. Or you can use a Diamond Cut-off wheel. I like the first option, even if they do break more often, due to not needing to continually keep your parts cooled down. Because the Diamond wheel, needs to be cooled or it will wear off the coating fairly quickly.

Question: What tool do you recommend to remove things like high-relief rivets and other exterior parts that are cast as part of the body? My suggestion is to use the Dremel Moto tool and either a sanding drum or Cut-off disc and use it just like a Grinder you would use on a 1:1 car or truck. You would grind it down to almost to the body and use a fine metal file and file down and sand rest of the way down with 120 Grit paper. Then fill with body glaze as needed and primer and paint.

Question: What to Drill Holes with? This depends on the size of the Hole... I will usually use a cordless drill, because my dremel moto tool with a keyless chuck has a really bad run out and makes the hole oblong.

Question: What about chopping a top? Dremel Moto Tool... Not a surgeon, just use the old adage, "Measure twice and cut once".

Question: What about stripping of the baked on paint? I have access to a friend that has a Sandblaster, so I strip all mine the same was as a 1:1. You can also use Laquer Thinner or even a regular automotive paint stripper (or the Aircraft Stripper you mentioned) that you apply with a brush and wipe off. You don't want to paint directly over the original paint, because the factory paint is really thicker than it should be and when you strip the paint off you will see exactly how much detail is lost from the factory.

Question: What about the primer, should I use self-etching?This is really up to you, myself I have never used the self-etching primer. I will either use House of Kolor Base white primer or the Walmart Grey self filling primer in the automotive isle. I have never had any issues with the paint lifting off of the cars that I have done. Really it is about making sure all the oils are off of the metal, so by using a Tack Rag on the body and don't touch it after that during paint. you will be fine.

I hope this helps.

[Scale-Master]

There are times I will paint over the existing factory paint. As Bart mentioned, the factory paint is usually quite thick, but it also hides a lot of imperfections. If the amount of detail lost from it is not an issue, I often sand the factory paint smooth, using it as a sealer/primer coat. A thin coat of primer depending on the color, or if I went through to metal, and then paint.

[eviltwincustoms]

Mark is right, you will find a lot of imperfections and even major mold lines on the Ertl and Maisto stuff. So for me I like to strip them all the way down, fix the concerns and shoot them with my base. Then use the Clear to build back up to what would have been the factory thickness, because your cars with opening doors I find leaving the paint on and shooting over it, your door lines will be very close together. Which could cause you to pop the paint off if they two hit due to not enough clearance.

[Hippie]

I know this has kinda turned away from the first post but i just found this,

i think die cast are fantatic, they offer so much more then models, hopefuly you remeber my drag bike, that started life as a die cast, it wasn't that it was too hard to scrach build, i could of done the chassie, scrachbuild a engine and so on but the die cast gave me the raw meateral to work on. then you treat it like you do to a kit your trieing to detail, just modify and still scarach build but not as much.

in all reality the help lazy modelers (me) finsh stuff faster.

[sjordan2]

I'm copying all of this over to a document for reference. More reasons to have a magazine article on the subject.

[Darren B]

nice site, what i noticed is there resin parts are pretty reasonable price wise. Havent checked the aluminum yet but cool site thanks for sharing.

[deja-view]

I like the old Berryman carburetor cleaner for stripping, but you can't get it in Calfornia any more. Jasco stripper works well, the gel is my choice.

I have used self etching primer, but have had no problems using regular Krylon primer either. I like the way it sands.

Files and emery cloth are the first round abrasives, and occasionally the Dremel, ( I prefer hand tols over the Dremel, but sometimes it is the best option). I also like my small hacksaw, it is my choice for cutting off parts.

You didn't have a problem with the paint/primer chipping off without using the self-etching? That's been a sour issue for me...and the careful handling required if the primer doesn't bond to the metal.

[eviltwincustoms]

You didn't have a problem with the paint/primer chipping off without using the self-etching? That's been a sour issue for me...and the careful handling required if the primer doesn't bond to the metal.

More than likely this has to do with the Oils in your hands and touching the bare metal before it has any sort of protection from contaminants for a good adhesion, if you clean the metal body well enough chipping wont be an issue.

[Scale-Master]

I'll second Bart on that. Also I handle them like models, not production die-casts. I have chipped a few, but from banging into something, or moving parts. I don't really care about the moving parts, except the hood.

[FASTBACK340]

Nice to see 5 pages of civil conversation on a polarizing topic. I agree die cast has it's place amongst our modeling world here. I just spent the better part of the day yesterday corresponding with Brian at Corrupted Diecast. I had inquired about the availability of 1/18th Centerlines for my car. He wrote back saying he finished the masters and included a set in my order. I spent a total of about $35 for:

Complete set of resin Centerlines w/ front tires

Pair of M-T Drag Radials

MSD 6AL Ignition box

Optima Battery

Electric Fuel Pump w/ Filters

Flowmaster Mufflers

I should have the parts by the middle of the week. I'm anxious to see if his quality is comparable to his service, which has been great. So far, so encouraging....

[FASTBACK340]

BTW: I found some of my car's Surf Turquoise metallic from MCW hiding in my stash. This project is looking more encouraging

Edited February 4, 2012 by FASTBACK340

[FASTBACK340]

Thanks for the help Bart. Not that I'm ready to start cutting up metal, I will take your advice with me. Thanks!

[corrupteddiecasts]

Thanks John. I try my best to keep my parts reasonable for everyone to be able to build their diecasts. I'm glad you were looking for those wheels because it pushed me to get them finished. I saw the picture of your car and realised it needed the correct centerlines to look right. That's why I got them back out and worked on them until I got them finished. I've been wanting them for my own builds for a long time, but just kept putting them off.

eviltwincustoms.. That's some nice work there. Do you have a website. I'd like to check out some more.

Harry, I will have to get me a copy of the magazine, and start reading it. My model car club members all read it, but I am more of a diecast builder than plastic so I just check it out when they have a copy out. What would I need to do to send in an article? Thanks.

I do hope there can be a diecast category on the forum. Not to sepparate the 2, but just so it's easier to find amongst all the other threads. That way "diecast" wouldn't have to be in the title all the time. I just updated my site with more goodies, and have more to add later.

[FASTBACK340]

Thanks Brian! I really appreciate the compliment on my car and I'm glad it inspired you!

As soon as I get all the bit's-n-pieces I must finish my car ASAP!

[Harry P.]

Harry, I will have to get me a copy of the magazine, and start reading it. My model car club members all read it, but I am more of a diecast builder than plastic so I just check it out when they have a copy out. What would I need to do to send in an article? Thanks.

Send me a PM and I'll fill you in.

[sjordan2]

I see everyone here, including myself, defending the fact that diecasts are models, and when taken apart, repainted, and modified to your own desires are pretty much the same as plastic in terms of respectability as model kit builds, regardless of material. But no one has stepped up here to say they disagree, and that diecasts aren't worthy of the respect of plastic/resin model kits, which has been a defensive claim on the part of plastic kit builders. Is there anyone here who thinks that reworked diecasts aren't worthy of the same response as plastic/resin kits? If so, step up and make your case.

[FASTBACK340]

I can remember one of those OTHER modeling magazines featuring a die cast Chevelle on the cover. The hood to grill gap was huge, the panel crispness was soft, and the general appearance was of something you'd give a child to grind into the pavement. But these days we have very inexpensive replica's being offered that rival plastic kits as far as detail and panel fit & crispness.

Yeah, die cast can be cool. I'm dying to detail something this big!

This is what I have so far from a previous attempt at building it... This is the original kit in white. All the trim is photo-etched or separate chromed plastic bits.

If I remember right, I just went after it with a bench grinder/wire wheel to remove the paint. I started with a new wheel to prevent any oil/grease from being smeared on the metal.

At one time I had it painted the correct L1 Surf Turquoise metallic, but I used some crappy primer/preparation and have to start over....

This should be fun....

[corrupteddiecasts]

Looks like the HWY61 car. You'll have fun building it for sure. You should have your parts by Wednsday. Good luck with the build, and if you need anything else just let me know I'll get it out to you.

[FASTBACK340]

Yes it is the Highway 61 piece. It's nicely done. I had someone send me a small block 6 Bbl. from an AAR so I'm on my way...

The only downside is on Friday I was installing a valve body in a transmission and it slipped out of my hand and the filter (which has a stamped oil feed opening...) opened up the side of my left hand. I didn't get stitches and now it's still bleeding slightly 3 days later. I'm off to the Doctor in 2 hours to get yelled at, then I get to tell the Boss I might be home a few more days.

Too bad the bandage make it hard to build... Let you know when the goodies get here.

[Dr. Cranky]

I'm jumping into this very interesting conversation very late, but I have to say I tend to agree with Chuck most and a few others of you. I think modified diecast redone with new details, new paint, new graphics is a built model made out of metal instead of plastic.

The other thing I will say is that I love to rob wheels and tires, and a few other parts from diecasts, and I never feel guilty about it.

[FASTBACK340]

A set of 1/18th. wheels from a Die-Cast Porsche look just fine on the Lindberg Chrysler Atlantic.

I'm pretty amped on doing the Barracuda.....

[Junkman]

Question: What about stripping of the baked on paint? I have access to a friend that has a Sandblaster, so I strip all mine the same was as a 1:1. You can also use Laquer Thinner or even a regular automotive paint stripper (or the Aircraft Stripper you mentioned) that you apply with a brush and wipe off. You don't want to paint directly over the original paint, because the factory paint is really thicker than it should be and when you strip the paint off you will see exactly how much detail is lost from the factory.

The easiest way to get paint off diecast parts is simply boiling it off. Stick the parts in a pot, fill with water until covered and boil them for half an hour.

Goes very well with BBQ steak, but then again, what doesn't?