Attn: Tim Boyd re: Triumph Motorcycles

[jbwelda]

hi, i was just looking at the photos of your build of the revell parts pack and amt Triumph motorcycles and thought i could interject something for next time: i think you have your spark plugs wired into the side of the electric starter motor! or maybe thats the magneto! i believe on real ones the coils are mounted under the fuel tank and a bit forward of center and so the wires should go upward and basically disappear under the tank.

the photos of your build were very helpful as i am thinking of building the revell triumph after finishing the amt/r&mm one not too long ago.

http://public.fotki.com/funman1712/tim-boyd-on-line-mo/125-scale-triumph-h/

[Casey]

Might have been better had you posted this in that thread.

Which thread?

[tim boyd]

JB and the team - I'll be the first to admit that I don't build 1/1 scale motorcycles. What I did do on these was base the wiring of my models on 1.1 scale Triumphs I saw at the indoor car shows during the year I built the first two models. I do recall it appearing to me that the ignition wires terminated in what appeared to me to be a magneto. They did not go up under the tank, at least in the bikes I looked at, which were all vintage Triumphs.

Anyway, if you are more knowledgeable about this than I am, or have reference materials that suggest your route (and I'm guessing you do), then you should follow in that manner.

Thanks for the feedback.....TIM

[tim boyd]

JB and the team - I should also mentiont that these are both vintage Triumphs that did not have starter motors (at least to my knowledge!) TIM

[tim boyd]

One more comment....I wondered why I had nearly 50 visitors to this particular article in my Fotki file....now I know (that you posted the link). Thanks for that! TIM

[zenrat]

As far as accuracy goes the Parts Pack Triumph is a bit of a mongrel in as much as it doesn't appear to be any model in particular.

However, it's got a rigid frame and is pre-unit construction (separate engine & gearbox) and so could have had a (Joe) Lucas (Prince of Darkness) Magdyno (magneto & dynamo combined) meaning no ignition coils required (just crossed fingers and daylight!) and plug leads going roughly where Tim put them.

Even with coil ignition you could claim that the coils are mounted somewhere behind/under/around the oil tank.

Whatever. It's a nice build. Well done Tim.

Why do brits drink warm beer?

Because Lucas also make fridges...

Edited August 1, 2012 by zenrat

[jbwelda]

my references (plus having 5 Nortons over my life):

this one does seem to have some wiring running down that direction but its hard to tell if they are plug wires:

hmmm i cant seem to locate the motorcycle in this shot:

here is a 71 that you can see the plug wires better on, but this may be too late of model:

so in short i cant find any that go down to the carb area, they all go up and disappear under the tank. but i may not be going back far enough in the archives. and im not sure when triumph introduced the electric starter but i was pretty sure it was early or mid 60s.

anyway i just wanted to bring it up and also let you know i found that stuff very interesting...didnt see a thread here for it, but i liked the contrast between the revell and the (much superior imo) amt attempts.

Edited August 1, 2012 by jbwelda

[jbwelda]

aha...maybe this is the one, it does look like the plug wires go down there in this photo, and then connect on to the front and one to the back of whatever is down there (eg: magneto):

ps: while its good sport and all to make fun of the prince of darkness (Lucas electrics) one will often find out in rebuilding an english electrical system that the components are fine but the wiring harness, especially the vintage cloth wound ones, are most often the problem. i rewired my MGTF with all new (good, eg: not moss motors) wiring harness and all my electricals stopped having the intermittent problems Lucas is (in)famous for. and i have done it more than once on more than one "impossible" car.

why did the british never manufacture computers?

they couldnt figure out how to make them leak oil!

Edited August 1, 2012 by jbwelda

[zenrat]

Great pics JB.

The orange & grey Bonnie (gorgeous) and the last, blue one are closest to what the model is trying to represent enginewise. The rest are all unit construction with the engine & gearbox built as one piece (post 1963).

I speak from experience when it comes to Lucas electrics - I learned to ride on a '51 BSA and have had British bikes ever since. Best way to make a real (ie pre Hinkley) Triumph reliable is to throw away all the original ignition system and replace it with a Boyer electronic ignition (and even then carry a spare black box for when the vibration kills the first one!).

Vibration was also what usually knocked the lights out - so spare globes were a must along with cobbled together rubber mounting.

Lucas equipment in cars probably fared slightly better than that on bikes as it was indoors and so not subject to being bathed in water & oil.

I once had a 250 Triumph single where the designer had placed the electrical box directly beneath the oil filler cap - any spilt oil filled the box before draiing onto the exhaust pipe.

Mind you, oil leaks meant that you knew when to top up the oil (when it stopped dripping) and prevented the frame from rusting out (unlike a Honda I once owned).

Of the bikes pictured, it looks like only the one with the girl on it has any oil in it BTW

[tim boyd]

Guys...really interesting contributions on this topic.

If youi go back to the link to my Fotki file, on the first post in this thread, and go to page three of the Fotki folder, you'll see a bunch of photos of 1.1 scale Triumphs. At least a couple of the photos (close to the end), show the ignition wires running to a component that seems to be replicated on the scale Triumphs, and was the basis for my wiring approach.

Another interesting point, the AMT Triumph appears to me (based on reference data) to be a duplicate of the 1962 Triumph 650 Bonneville motorcycle, and the Revell unit seems relatively similar. This would support my guess that these are pre-starter unit bikes based on the information in the posts above. .

Another interesting followup would be for someone with the Revell 1/8 scale Triumph Custom Motorcycle kit, dating from 1963/4, to scan a copy of the instruction sheet as these kits featured full wiring detail and wiring charts.

Again, thanks all for your interest and comments. TIM

[zenrat]

Engine certainly looks like an early pre-unit Bonneville but they didn't have rigid frames (which the kit does have).

Also, the headlamp was, from the factory, hosed in a nacelle (like the orange & grey bike) although this was commonly removed (like on the blue bike) as a day 2 mod. The kit has no nacelle.

It's a hotch potch really. I think it was probably designed by someone who had Triumphs availible to look at but wasn't really into bikes

This one I built "box" stock. The next one i'll be chopping.

[tim boyd]

Engine certainly looks like an early pre-unit Bonneville but they didn't have rigid frames (which the kit does have).

Also, the headlamp was, from the factory, hosed in a nacelle (like the orange & grey bike) although this was commonly removed (like on the blue bike) as a day 2 mod. The kit has no nacelle.

It's a hotch potch really. I think it was probably designed by someone who had Triumphs availible to look at but wasn't really into bikes

This one I built "box" stock. The next one i'll be chopping.

Very cool!!! TIM

[jbwelda]

Heres the AMT version, without the kool shroud for the racer version:

thanks again for all the info, and tim thats a great archive of a great build!

[zenrat]

Nice build JB