358 or 429 or ? planning my 79 stang project

[Jeremy Jon]

I've been planning a build for my personal collection - not always easy to do - but in a nutshell, a modified '79 pace car, lowered, flared fenders, deep dish TRX style wheels, modified graphics, seriously hot driveline, but not a modern engine, something that "could" have been in 1979

It's got to be a Ford driveline, but unique, I thought maybe a NASCAR derived engine, since that would be suited to pacing Indy cars

1979 was the transition time period it seems, from the 429 to the 358 Cleveland family engine, the 429 is more distinctive looking, but the older tech & heavy choice, heck there was the DFV F1 derived engine even in that time period?!

...I even considered making an over the top 4 cylinder with big turbo & carb hat type system

Ugh, just can't decide!?!

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jeremy Jon

[my80malibu]

If you are talking Engine Choice I say go Big or go Home.

[Jeremy Jon]

The 4 cylinder - pinto engine - with carb'd turbo came in that year of car, along with the 4.9L V8, however the SVO version didn't come along until later, and was mostly EFI and NVH development changes, a great little engine, but to modern to be used in this build

I like the visual of the big 429 but it was by that time outdated, a heavy lump really, and this being a "what if" build, would they have used that or something newer?

The 358 Cleveland family engine used in NASCAR where in use by then, is another potential choice, not huge visually, but significant that it was lighter and more up-to-date of an engine in that sense, and certainly lighter & more compact than the 429

I definitely want it to be unique, and also what they could have & "might have" built, in 1979, as a 'ultimate' version of the pace car ...hmmmm??

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jeremy Jon

[Jeremy Jon]

That's an interesting find Paul, here's a couple of pics found, looks similar but different shaped valve covers

Technically interesting, seems like a mechanical direct injection, similar to that used on the M-Benz gullwing

[tooltas]

find your self a f150 kit by amt and use the 351w.........or nascar's 351/358 too

[o-man]

I vote for lighter engine. That may be from my autocross/hpde background and I like cars that handle besides being fast in a straight line.. 358 makes good power and doesn't weigh a ton. Now you could say either one has aluminum block so they will be light. Would a 429 fit between the shock towers on real Mustang without a bunch of surgery?

[johnbuzzed]

I'd go with the NASCAR motor.

[Greg Myers]

Nothing says tradition like a flat head V8 with three two's !

[om617]

What about an Cosworth BDA from the Revell Escort MK2 kit`s. Those engines made close to 300hp N/A tuned in real life. I dont see how they could not make 500+ hp with turbocharging.

Edited August 14, 2013 by om617

[fumi]

In 1979 Ford would have probably wanted to push the 5.0 and turbo as the way forward, so how about a turbocharged 5.0 Clevor? The Cleveland heads seemed to be a popular upgrade for Windsors until aftermarket aluminium heads became readily available, and it would make for a contemporary (for 1979, anyway) Boss Mustang.

The engine with turbo on carb and big valve heads is going to be temperamental, but I bet it would make a ton of power.

[Jeremy Jon]

Lots of cool ideas guys!

The Cossi engines are cool, but sadly didn't come along until later

The only reason I am leaning away from a Windsor, or turbo Windsor, is because that's expected to be seen when lifting a Fox body hood

Flat head is kinda cool LOL a bit back dated for this build though

Not sure I've ever seen the 429 under an early fox body hood, they did in the later SN95 chassis Boss project car, what a beast!

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jeremy Jon

[om617]

The BDA came along in the mid 70s in think. Also there is the Zakspeed 4cyl twin turbo from the Ford Capri.

[Jeremy Jon]

Oh yes, you're right Tommy, I like most people think of the 1980's era, but the twin cams came along before then even, those & the Kent head engines were pretty rare stuff this side of the pond in those years, very cool engines

I am leaning toward a turbo 4 cylinder engine for this build though!

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jeremy Jon

[Jeremy Jon]

Anyone recognize this oddity? I came across in my researching this topic, and it's looking interesting!

[Maindrian Pace]

That direct injection experimental engine is nuts, the injection pump running off of the timing gear, the twin plug setup, one through the top, one in the conventional location, the saw tooth valve covers that resemble the old Mopar poly family, it would be an involved scratch building project but very unique.

-MJS

[Jeremy Jon]

Very true Mike, it definitely is intriguing!

Check out the pic I posted in last post ^^ look at the valve cover

[Jeremy Jon]

Another pic of that engine found, any guesses?

[Maindrian Pace]

Half-a-Boss 429?! That may be a little too weird, unless it's a turbocharged, intercooled half-a-Boss 429 (Boss 214.5?)

-MJS

[Jeremy Jon]

Crazy right!? It's definitely a 429 boss head on that thing, but an I4 ....that would be a 3.5L four banger! + turbo = nuts!

Here's a pic of the block, with a typical 4 cylinder head gasket sitting on top for comparison!

PS - I already know what the engine is, yes was a production item actually, but curious if someone else will guess it?

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jeremy Jon

[1930fordpickup]

Is this a Marine engine? That would be very cool .

Ohio George ran a turbo 4 cylinder Pinto in Prostock back in the day. Early seventies .

[Jeremy Jon]

There was a marine engine version, true Andy

There was a 3.7L version made also, and was even printed in the Ford motorsports catalog in the early 1980's, both Roush and Ed Pink played around with their own variations too!

Ohio George indeed ran a 4 cylinder turbo, this pic of his Pinto showing is a OHC 2.3L engine, I'm unsure but it may be possible he ran one of these 3.5L engines later on?

Edited August 15, 2013 by Jeremy Jon

[Jeremy Jon]

No guesses? Okay, here's the give away!

[Blown03SVT]

OMG! 180hp naturally aspirated 4 banger in 1986 would have been a game changer if installed in a passenger vehicle. If Ford have done multiport fuel injection and a turbo on that the 5.0 might had some competition on the sales floor. That would have been a killer SVO motor. Now that would be a great choice for you pace car IMO. Preserve the balance and handling of the car, and be late 70's, early 80's high tech kitsch to boot.

[Maindrian Pace]

4cyl engines have an imbalance problem, and much over 2.3 liters vibrates like a paint shaker. I can only imagine how that must have felt with no balance shaft. There is a reason you haven't seen many, if any, in cars.

-MJS

[Jeremy Jon]

Yes Mike it would be, even the 3.0L Porsche I4 engine needed twin balance shafts to help it, this engine was limited for use in race & marine applications, so in this imaginary use probably good enough for running out in front of the open wheelers!

It is uber cool for this project Eric!

I think the OHC engine would still have been superior in the production role, lighter weight, and this 3.7L - especially with the 429 head used - sure wouldn't be economy or emissions champ LOL

A big plus is that the 3.7L block -half of a 460! - is all aluminum, so some weigh savings there, and even though the 429 head is steel it helps with detonation and heat with increased boost, the magnesium valve cover probably helps a little with weight, certainly that head would weight nearly as much as the bare block possibly?

Okay, so now to figure out the rest of the drivetrain!?

Edited August 17, 2013 by Jeremy Jon