i need diagrams

[powerpooper]

hi guys, I love pro stock racing and I want to pro stock a 65 chevy pickup but I cant find any plumbing or wiring diagrams, and I would also like to know what size the oil, cooling, and fuel lines are on the 1.1 car are so I know what I need to get...iv seen charts on here showing the sizes in diff scales but that does not help me because I don't know what sizes they use for all the different applications on the 1.1 car such as fuel cell to carbs and dry sump to oil pan etc etc if anyone can give me some info or send a link I would really appreciate it

[Ace-Garageguy]

The actual sizes on full scale (real) cars have been covered in depth on several threads on the forum. A search should pull up exactly what you need as far as sizes go.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Mooneyzs]

Take a look at the chart I created here. I show what the 1:1 size is and what they equivalent is is each scale. Not sure if it will help but thought it was worth a try.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70954&page=1

[turbo nova]

hard to answer that as that combo has never and never will be legal in PS or the short lived PST. throw out what you want to build and the location of things such as fuel tanks, oil tank if going dry sump, induction type, trans,etc. You can make it very simple or very complex depending on the details you want man.

[Force]

Do a search, this subject has came up several times before...but here is a start http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85768&hl=

For the sizes of wires and hoses I eyeball what looks to be fairly close and convincing.

But for a 65 Pro Stock Truck...well anything like that will not be allowed as James said, the Pro Stock Truck class wasn't invented 1965 as it came 1998 and lasted through the 2001 season and was for compact pickup trucks like the Chevy S10 with maximum 358 cui engines, and pickups are not allowed in Pro Stock...Pro Stock car on the other hand has 500 cui engines in NHRA and larger engines are allowed in IHRA, but a Pro Stock body style can't be any older than 5 years either...so it falls on every aspect.

But you can for sure build your 65 pickup truck like a Pro Stocker and it can compete in other classes like Pro Modified, Competition Eliminator, Super Gas and lots of other classes.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Force

[comp1839]

here is a typical line setup for what you are asking.

fuel system

-12 from tank to pump/ -10 frpom pump to regulator/ -6 from regulator to carbs.

dry sump

-12 from tank to pump/ -10 from pump to filter/ -10 from filter to engine block/

-12 from pan to pump/ -10 from pump to tank if individual lines are used. -16 or -20 if a manifolded system is used.

if you have more questions, just ask. glad to help.

[powerpooper]

im actually not building it far any competition its just something im building for fun, the info you guys gave me did help me out a lot though thank you

[southpier]

comp - are those numbers decimals, millimeters, number wire? or did I miss something?

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 9/11/2014 at 10:02 PM, southpier said:

comp - are those numbers decimals, millimeters, number wire? or did I miss something?

They're AN line sizes, in 1/16ths of an inch, nominal ID.

For example, AN -10 (read AN dash ten) means a hose with an inside diameter of 10/16 of an inch, same as 5/8.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE:

"Dash sizes, or AN sizes, were first used in military applications, on aircraft, ships, etc., for hydraulic, fuel and coolant plumbing. The tough, braided/reinforced hose, coupled with threaded connections that were reliable in combat conditions, led early racers to buy military surplus hose, hose ends and fittings in the years following WWII and the Korean War. The racing community quickly made this type of plumbing popular, resulting in common use in today’s performance and racing markets. The term AN (a common abbreviation for Army/Navy specification) sticks with us to this day. That’s why the reinforced hose/hose end assemblies we see today are referred to as AN assemblies.

So, we refer to these hoses, hose ends and fittings sizes with the word (or symbol) dash, or by the term AN, or by the term -AN. It all means the same thing. For example, “I’m plumbing my fuel system with dash 6 hose” or “I used dash 8 AN hose for my carburetor feed.” When in written form, the dash symbol (-) or the word dash might be used.

-AN (ARMY/NAVY) hose sizing is based on single and double-digit identification numbers. Common sizes for performance automotive applications include -3, -4, -6, -8, -10, -12, -16 and -20 (the larger the number, the larger the hose diameter).

-3 and -4 sizes are typically used for brake line applications, small oil lines, some small fuel line applications, pressure gauges and vacuum lines.

-6 size is typically applicable for fuel and oil plumbing

-8 size is typically used for fuel, coolant and oil plumbing

-10 size is typically used for oil, fuel or heater hose plumbing

-12 size is typically used for coolant, large fuel delivery or dry-sump oil

-16 size is typically used for coolant, dry-sump oil or large fuel delivery

-20 size is typically used for coolant (radiator hose)

What do these AN dash numbers really represent? Actually, there is a logical reason for these numbers, which otherwise might seem like made-up codes. The dash number refers to the hose inside diameter, in denominations of 1/16″ of an inch. For example, a -10 size translates to 10/16″, or 5/8″ inside diameter. This is an easy way to understand dash sizes. Just think in terms of 1/16″ increments. A -6 means that the inside diameter is 6/16″ (or 3/8″). A -8 size is 8/16″ (or 1/2″) inside diameter. Just remember that the format is based on 1/16″.

Not to make things confusing, but those 1/16″ increments are “nominal” numbers that indicate the O.D. of the hose end’s internal metal tube (this tube slips into the hose). In reality, most AN hose makers actually make their hoses a bit on the tight-tolerance side, to the tune of about 1/32″ smaller than the theoretical nominal diameter size, which aids in hose sealing onto the hose end’s tube. So, a -6 hose, which theoretically should have an inside diameter of 6/16″ (3/8″ or 12/32″), actually has an inside diameter of 11/32″. Nevertheless, using the 1/16″ theory as your guide will help you to easily visualize what the inside diameter will be. For example, a -6 hose will provide about a 3/8″ I.D. and a -8 hose will provide about a 1/2″ I.D. If you’ve decided that your fuel line should feature a 1/2″ inside diameter, you know that a -8 AN size will be the correct choice.

(NOTE: The above sizes are based on Russell hose. Outside diameters may vary among hose manufacturers and among hose materials. Operating pressure ratings will vary depending on the specific type of hose construction).

- See more at: http://www.precisionenginetech.com/tech-explained/2009/05/20/an-hose-and-an-hardware-part-1/#sthash.5fzWG7oF.dpuf

Edited September 11, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[comp1839]

you may want to check your reference there "ace". your both incorrect. the number equates to the O.D. of the corresponding tube size. the inside diameter of say a -10 is equal to the inside diameter of a 5/8 o.d. hard line. just so you know.... the i.d. of a -10 hose is 9/16".

not that it really matters in the model world.

Edited September 11, 2014 by comp1839

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 9/11/2014 at 11:42 PM, comp1839 said:

you may want to check your reference there "ace". your both incorrect. the number equates to the O.D. of the corresponding tube size. the inside diameter of say a -10 is equal to the inside diameter of a 5/8 o.d. hard line.

not that it really matters in the model world.

Ummm...as an A&P mechanic, I go by the specific FAA definition for fittings. It reads: "the dash number following the AN number indicates the size of tubing or hose for which the fitting is made, in 1/16ths of an inch. This size measures the OD of tubing and the ID of hose "(which is what I said). I provided the quote to give a general overview to modelers who may not be aware of the AN hose and fitting story, not as an attempt to provide real-world technical data, as I believe it's unlikely anyone will plumb their real aircraft, starship or top-fuel car from information they got from a model car forum.

I carelessly neglected to specifically state that it refers to the OD of hard tubing.

Because, like you say, it doesn't really matter in the model world. That's why I used the term "nominal", which means "about" or "kinda", and is plenty close enough for this forum. A dash 10 hard line will be about .025" in 1/25 scale. A dash 10 hose will be a little larger, (assuming a nominal real-hose wall-thickness of about 1/8 inch...depending on the specific hose construction) or about .035", just barely noticeable to most people.

But thank you for pointing out my most egregious oversight and lack of absolute technical clarity.

A further clarification, and why I didn't really think it was necessary to go into all of this for a model, but here it is anyway...From Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies. QUOTE:

Background

The idea behind AN hoses and fittings was to provide a flexible alternative to rigid tubing in plumbing aircraft and military vehicles. Sizes for rigid tubes were standardized, with sizes called out by tubing OD (3/16", 1/2", etc). AN hose sizes were designed to match the ID sizes of these rigid tubes. Can you see the confusion starting? Tubing is known by OD, but the hoses are sized according to the tubing ID -- not the hose OD or even the hose ID.

AN hose sizes are based on the nominal OD of the tubing with a matching ID. It sounds convoluted, but it really is a simple idea and a logical goal. If hoses were called out using the hose OD (the same system used for tubing), the ID of a 3/8" hose would be much smaller than the ID of a 3/8" tube. Add to that the fact that different hoses have different wall thicknesses, and it would be impossible to predict the hose size required for any application.

Specifics

The AN numbers refer to the tubing OD in sixteenths of an inch. For example, 8AN hose has the same ID as a 1/2" nominal tube. 3AN hose has the same ID as a 3/16" tube. This means that 6AN hose will not introduce any appreciable flow restriction in a fuel system designed around 3/8" OD rigid tubing.

Note that this does not match AN Bolt Nomenclature. AN bolt sizes translate directly to bolt OD. To help differentiate between the two systems, convention has put the "AN" before the bolt size but after the plumbing size (e.g., AN4 bolts / 6AN hose).

The Bad News

When racers adopted AN plumbing, it soon became apparent that engineers in different industries did not work together much. Automotive designers had their own standards and accepted sizes, and very few of those were found in aircraft systems. One glaring mismatch is the popularity of 5/16" (8mm) fuel hose on automobiles. While a specification exists for 5AN hose and fittings, it is exceedingly rare. Even manufacturers specializing in AN-style fittings strictly for motorsports tend to skip over the 5AN size for the most part.

The Good News

You can always identify AN fittings based on the male thread size (outside diameter). These sizes are constant regardless of brand, hose type, or fitting configuration. If your fitting has a convex 37 degree flare at the end, the threads will tell you the AN size (and vice-versa).

Male Thread Size AN Size* Equivalent Tube Size

(Nominal OD) Hose ID** 3/8-24 3AN 3/16" 0.13" ** 7/16-20 4AN 1/4" 0.22" 9/16-18 6AN 3/8" 0.34" 3/4-16 8AN 1/2" 0.44" 7/8-14 10AN 5/8" 0.56" 1 1/16-12 12AN 3/4" 0.69" 1 5/16-12 16AN 1" 0.88"

Edited September 12, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[comp1839]

you're just silly!!!!

[Ace-Garageguy]

[southpier]

I get it ...

thanks

[jwrass]

Ace,

Great history lesson & information!!! I'm printing this laminating it and putting it in the race trailer. I have known the definition of AN for as long as I can remember but I'm sure it will open some eyes When they see the nomenclature of AN, Army Navy. Always love reading your posts as they always contain well thought out contributions. jimmy "RASS"

[ferrarijoe]

When it comes to the wiring you can go to manufacture website and pull up instructions. For example if you want MSD just go to their site and download instructions for any part. Some are also available on Summit racing. I don't know if jegs has them.

[Mooneyzs]

I just wanted to show the hose sizes that I have in the Chart I created and where I got them from:

Here is a screen shot from the Earl's :