Twin Herb Adams '71 SCCA Trans Am '64 Tempest Gray Ghost projects

[HQuackenboss]

Richard, i you posted a picture of car #26, with a red and white color scheme. That is a 1968 Firebird. It has, as you notes, crude fairings around the number illumination lights.  When I suggested doing a Google search, I meant to search for pictures of production 1969 Trans Am models, not Titus race cars. Sorry about not being clearer.

The production 1969 Trans Am model had two vertically stacked fairings behind the front wheel well openings. Note also all 1969 Firebirds (even, i think, Canadian Firebirds) had recessed fake vents. For the Trans Am, fairings were added. As a historical footnote, the first prototypes of the Trans Am body add-ons were designed by a collaboration of Gene Winfield and designer Harry Bradly, and were fabricated by Winfield and installed and painted on a car by Winfield at GM in Michigan. As a hunch, I suspect that Winfield got connected to DeLorean as a byproduct of Winfield consulting for AMT (AMT and MPC/founded by AMT vice president, George Toteff were located less than 10 miles from the GM Tech Center), and was occasionally in Detroit.

The Titus cars as raced in 1969 in the pictures you posted of the #18 and #13, and #27 don't have scoops. But they  are not Firebird Trans Am models either. They are a Dr. Frankenstein creation  combining 1968 and 1969 body parts with 1969 fenders, and a fake wider, likely fiberglass, 1968-style front bumper.

As you guys probably know, all this chicanery about the Titus Firebirds in 1968 and 1969 is the rules in those years specified homologated 5 Liter motors, and Pontiac didn't have one, but they successfully sold the SCCA a fib about the Camaro Z28 motor being available in Canadian Firebirds.  In 1970 the rules were changed to allow destroked production motors.

At some point between the races of the pictures you posted, and the intro of the 2nd generation 1970 1/2 Firebird Trans Am, 1969 bodied Firebirds were raced with proper 1969 front bumpers, and fenders with the aforementioned side fairings. here is a picture of Craig Fisher racing one from, the source says, in the 1070 Trans-Am series.

[swede70]

Just an update in brief concerning my '69 Daytona 24HR class-winning Jerry Titus/Jon Ward Firebird project based on the ACME tribute release.  Fill in markings were negotiated out as custom work undertaken by 3 Amigos Decals.

 

...the Prestolite contingency/accessory decal has since been replaced, although most everything else is good.  Done by 3 Amigos, the driver's i.d., the Sylvania Electric logo, the 'Paint by Mike Shields' lettering, as well as the odd motif seen atop the rear wheel arch opening represent new additions.  Other decals are a touch tiny given they are repurposed 1:25th scale waterslides pressed into service here.  Lamps to illuminate the door roundels stand to be fabricated and added soon.

.

...while this would be a good view of the artwork added atop the rear wheel arch opening on either side of the model.  Easily missed for reviewing period photos, I was very impressed for the effort made and the results achieved here by 3 Amigos.  The chromed wheel arch trim worked up by Lane/Exact Detail has been cut out of this example, while notice too that I've tried to disguise the thickness of the panel work around the arch openings to suggest thin panel work stampings versus a clumsy and too heavy to be believed body casting.  

Mike K./Swede70

Edited August 5, 2021 by swede70

[mark 23]

11 hours ago, swede70 said:

Just some updates in brief concerning both the '69 Daytona 24HR class-winning Jerry Titus/Jon Ward Firebird project based on the ACME tribute release as well as my '70 T/G Racing Jerry Titus racer.  Fill in markings were negotiated out as custom work undertaken by 3 Amigos Decals for the former project and impress, whereas the second project now in primer will likely be subject to another contract given the previous custom work done by the late Kenny Terry seems obsolete now.  

 

...the Prestolite contingency/accessory decal has since been replaced, although most everything else is good.  Done by 3 Amigos, the driver's i.d., the Sylvania Electric logo, the 'Paint by Mike Shields' lettering, as well as the odd motif seen atop the rear wheel arch opening represent new additions.  Other decals are a touch tiny given they are repurposed 1:25th scale waterslides pressed into service here.  Lamps to illuminate the door roundels stand to be fabricated and added soon enough.

.

...while this would be a good view of the artwork added atop the rear wheel arch opening on either side of the model.  Easily missed for reviewing period photos, I was very impressed for the effort made and the results achieved here by 3 Amigos.  The chromed wheel arch trim worked up by Lane/Exact Detail has been cut out of this example, while notice too that I've tried to disguise the thickness of the panel work around the arch openings to suggest thin panel work stampings versus a clumsy and too heavy to be believed body casting.  

-

...and quickly, seen just below would be the rear flares both carefully bonded and smoothly blended onto each rear quarter panel even as the shell is just a large chunk of Zamac or white metal.  The old Kenny Terry decals worked up before COVID-19 hit can be made out behind the model to the left.  For a time they seemed good, although now other options exist and stand to be pursued.  At least everything else is largely coming together.

The weight at the back of this '70 Firebird is considerable, while horrified I am at the possibility of breaking one of the delicate rocker panels given they are thin. It's a delight to see everything done on the body just look as a piece given the Frankenstein appearance of this other project for all too long, with morale proven again very important as focus is difficult for me to sustain.  Kind thanks for your review of this clutch of projects which despite doubts, nevertheless live...

Mike K./Swede70

Thanks for the pic of the Fisher 69 firebird. I plan on doing  that car using the AMT 69 firebird kit. Also thanks for the pic of the #26 Titus car. I have started building that one from the Revell 68 kit. I found decals for the # 26 from Patto's Place. They are on a sheet with the decals for the Titus 68/69 #13,#18 firebird. I bought most of my transam decals from Patto's The are very good IMHO. Do you think 3 amigo's will do the #26 car in 1/24 1/25 ?

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by mark 23
added to post

[HQuackenboss]

I am enjoying the discussion about the Firebirds, but you'all might think about starting a new thread rather than continue on in the thread about the Gray Ghost.

Also, for anybody planning on being at the Monterey Reunion in two weeks. Herb Adams, and wife, Sandi (it was her car) will be at Laguna Seca for the vintage Trans-Am race to see John Hildebrand race the Gray Ghost on Saturday afternoon, Aug 14. I will be there all 4 days, but Herb and Sandi will only be there on Saturday.  John finished 3rd of 33 in 2018, and in the top 5 in 2019 despite having broken the axle with the right gear ratio.

[swede70]

In relation to Mark's comments and questions:

Concerning the work outsourced to 3 Amigos, the decals made up wouldn't constitute a full set, but rather just a handful of images that ACME didn't provide as tampo prints that might otherwise have been retained on their prefinished 1:18th diecast release.  I also worried about the cost of everything, feeling it best to rely on my personal container of waterslide decal sheets collected across time to fill in the contingency/accessory decal markings with cleanly registered images on hand versus commissioning markings that I thought and feared would either be of equal quality or lesser quality at best.  As things turned out, I think the product delivered by 3 Amigos is considerably better than what the late Kenny Terry was able to produce as well as anything I've received from Patto's Place in Australia.  

I don't think S. Lopez at 3 Amigos Decals has added what was in essence 'my' custom work order to his range of offerings, but if he's receptive to shrinking down what he has on file to 1:25th to suit your needs, I'd say approach him and go for it.  He outsources his printing to another firm in the United States (3 Amigos Decals does design work in Mexico), while the print firm is very likely using technology that the home rooted or cottage industry hobbyist couldn't hope to afford or employ.  I was very agreeably surprised as to how good the 3 Amigos product was and how fast the turnover proved concerning the work performed for me.  

I'm glad to read that you've been able to obtain the Patto's Place waterslide decal art for your 1:25th project in turn, while for mulling the qualities of a similar project in the same scale obtained from PP in the form of his '71 Penske Javelin sheet, it certainly looks clean enough for me and undoubtedly usable.  Some of the 1:18th sheets I've ordered for possible use on a '70 Autodynamics Challenger project as well as a '70 AAR 'Cuda project have been less impressive, good perhaps for large solid color characters, but decidedly disappointing with regards to the smaller contingency/accessory decal markings which were clumsily rendered and of poor quality.  Usually the way to go is to combine the best rendered markings/decals from a multitude of sources consistent with coming up with the strongest collection of materials that reflect the right design, color choice, size, vibrancy vs. opaqueness or transparency, reliable adhesion - and not so rare that you'd not have the option of stacking duplicate images to brighten up everything.  My Dan Gurney '70 'Cuda race retirement ride has PP door numerals set slightly further apart versus what was seen early season, and even if nothing else on the PP product offering sheet was subsequently used, the solid white numeral decals worked very well and I have no complaints to register about such.  In short and in sum, what works - works!  

-

In relation to Harry's comments and advice:

I just submitted a request to move a slightly lost '70 Titus Firebird thread to this subpage on the forum, hence I'll try to keep things better segregated.  Until late 'we' didn't have a separate road racing section (or something close) to post within and upon in relation to the Model Car Magazine Forum, although happily for recent developments the situation has altered.  For the light volume of my posts and on-again, off-again commitment to various projects, it didn't seem out of bounds to bundle my period Pontiac SCCA Trans-Am projects onto one thread given people often find individual project threads slip away and vanish should such not be routinely updated.  Further up this thread people have gently asked to be directed to what was posted before, while I've tried to comply with such wishes for pasting in this and that link.

A lot of my resin casting efforts also feed like-themed projects, hence when something is duplicated and themed just-so, all the Pontiac (in this instance) projects are nurtured a bit and pushed further along versus plastic kit work that reflects a person restricting their focus to a single project at a time and no other.  Small batches of things cast and fabricated to support small batches of projects like-themed then, while soon I'll have the decal art for the Gray Ghost (both the 1:25th and 1:18th efforts) alternately revised or commissioned to push those projects ahead, and will likely bond the flare work to the 1:18th shell given I've developed a bit of confidence concerning how that can be done for work on the '70 Titus Firebird.  I'm still learning how to do this, suffering if you will from the usual pressures of having my ambitions outpace my knowledge and/or skill set.  

Thanks...

Mike K./Swede70

Edited August 6, 2021 by swede70

[mark 23]

15 hours ago, swede70 said:

In relation to Mark's comments and questions:

Concerning the work outsourced to 3 Amigos, the decals made up wouldn't constitute a full set, but rather just a handful of images that ACME didn't provide as tampo prints that might otherwise have been retained on their prefinished 1:18th diecast release.  I also worried about the cost of everything, feeling it best to rely on my personal container of waterslide decal sheets collected across time to fill in the contingency/accessory decal markings with cleanly registered images on hand versus commissioning markings that I thought and feared would either be of equal quality or lesser quality at best.  As things turned out, I think the product delivered by 3 Amigos is considerably better than what the late Kenny Terry was able to produce as well as anything I've received from Patto's Place in Australia.  

I don't think S. Lopez at 3 Amigos Decals has added what was in essence 'my' custom work order to his range of offerings, but if he's receptive to shrinking down what he has on file to 1:25th to suit your needs, I'd say approach him and go for it.  He outsources his printing to another firm in the United States (3 Amigos Decals does design work in Mexico), while the print firm is very likely using technology that the home rooted or cottage industry hobbyist couldn't hope to afford or use.  I was very agreeably surprised as to how good the 3 Amigos product was and how fast the turnover proved concerning the work performed for me.  

I'm glad to read that you've been able to obtain the Patto's Place waterslide decal art for your 1:25th project in turn, while for mulling the qualities of a similar project in the same scale obtained from PP in the form of his '71 Penske Javelin sheet, it certainly looks clean enough for me and undoubtedly usable.  Some of the 1:18th sheets I've ordered for possible use on a '70 Autodynamics Challenger project as well as a '70 AAR 'Cuda project have been less impressive, good perhaps for large solid color characters, but decidedly disappointing with regards to the smaller contingency/accessory decal markings which were clumsily rendered and of poor quality.  Usually the way to go is to combine the best rendered markings/decals from a multitude of sources consistent with coming up with the strongest collection of materials that reflect the right design, color choice, size, vibrancy vs. opaqueness or transparency, reliable adhesion, and not so rare that you'd not have the option of stacking duplicate images to brighten up everything.  My Dan Gurney '70 'Cuda race retirement ride has PP door numerals set slightly further apart versus what was seen early season, and even if nothing else on the PP product offering sheet was subsequently used, the solid white numeral decals worked very well and I have no complaints to register about such.  In short and in sum, what works - works!  

-

In relation to Harry's comments and advice:

I just submitted a request to move a slightly lost '70 Titus Firebird thread to this subpage on the forum, hence I'll try to keep things better segregated.  Until late 'we' didn't have a separate road racing section (or something close) to post within and upon in relation to the Model Car Magazine Forum, although happily for recent developments the situation has altered.  For the light volume of my posts and on-again, off-again commitment to various projects, it didn't seem out of bounds to bundle my period Pontiac SCCA Trans-Am projects onto one thread given people often find individual project threads slip away and vanish should such not be routinely updated.  Further up this thread people have gently asked to be directed to what was posted before, while I've tried to comply with such wishes for pasting in this and that link.

A lot of my resin casting efforts also feed like-themed projects, hence when something is duplicated and themed just-so, all the Pontiac (in this instance) projects are nurtured a bit and pushed further along versus plastic kit work that reflects a person restricting their focus to a single project at a time and no other.  Small batches of things cast and fabricated to support small batches of projects like-themed then, while soon I'll have the decal art for the Gray Ghost (both the 1:25th and 1:18th efforts) alternately revised or commissioned to push those projects ahead, and will likely bond the flare work to the 1:18th shell given I've developed a bit of confidence concerning how that can be done for work on the '70 Titus Firebird.  I'm still learning how to do this, suffering if you will from the usual pressures of having my ambitions outpace my knowledge and/or skill set.  

Thanks...

Mike K./Swede70

Thanks Mike for the info you provided. As far as the Pattos decals for the #26 car, they are short of contingency decals, but I have plenty of other decal sheets to get them from. The one that I don't have is that quarter panel decal. Good to here there will be a 1/25decal set for the Gray Ghost because that is another one I want to do sometime. What would be really cool is to have the decal sheet for the #7 Fisher 69 firebird car.

Edited August 5, 2021 by mark 23
added to post

[swede70]

Just a short update this...

Happy to turn up something unexpectedly via FB Marketplace, this an AMT '64 Tempest convertible assembled plastic kit which will yield a hood, as well as a tail light cluster plus tail light lenses for my early-season 1:25th scale '64/'71-season Gray Ghost evidencing the window framing before such was cut out entire.  An earlier Scale Coachworks flared shell purchased long ago is up on wheels and is configured to reflect a later-season spec., hence I have two examples in 1:25th scale based upon the AMT annual tool.  

Unfortunately the stock bumpers were discarded from the model purchased for $20 back earlier today, but still - a step forward and a means to save money given period parts sourcing is typically tedious and expensive both.  The hood is soaking in Scalecoat, while I hope it'll strip cleanly.  Thanks...

This would be the cleaned up (for molding flash) second Scale Coachworks Gray Ghost shell with enlarged wheel arch openings (reshaped a bit then) and what more or less box stock parts I've collected up to this point to flesh the build out.  A rear bumper still needs to be sourced, but in the main it's good.  Seen to the right is the very clean 'new' tail light cluster w/lenses, while to the left may be seen some period screw-bottom hardware.

The hood is soaking, while less the other parts discerned in the first photo, here would be the rest of the kit.  Happy to have the same. 

Mike K./Swede70

Edited December 27, 2021 by swede70

[afx]

Always enjoy your Trans Am projects Mike. Look forward to more updates on the Grey Ghost projects.

[swede70]

Greetings,

Minor stuff, although seen below would be my AMT '64 Tempest '71 SCCA Trans-Am Gray Ghost effort w/framed windows intended to replicate how the topic appeared at Lime Rock, CT.  Rain tires and pressed steel wheels would be called for...

A hood, the dash, a very clean tail light cluster plus unblemished tail light lense inserts were taken from the aforementioned $20 AMT '64 Tempest convertible built up, while very recently a rear bumper was secured for just less than $15 via eBay.  With expectations sharply trimmed back given I intend to keep this AMT-based build mostly AMT, perhaps this fairly simple project will be the first to receive paint.  Thanks.

Fairly sharp, now on the hunt for a grille divider/'beak', an MPC second generation Firebird Trans Am steering wheel, and pressed steel rims of an appropriate design.

Looking trim though, while nothing special was done to arrive at a reasoned ride height given I've used the second of the existing metal axle holes to configure things as-seen.  

Mike K./Swede70

[afx]

Coming along nicely.