Pete J.

Here are two pages from S. Tamiya's book Master Modeler. This is his description of the issues he had when he first started making auto kits. I think you will find it interesting and informative.

+1

Scale is a funny thing! In my experience, just because something measures the exact dimension of the real deal doesn't mean it will "look right". Sometimes it looks too large and other times too small. This often times occurs because we view things at significantly different angles and distances on 1:1 items than we do on models. For instance, to get a true view of an engine of the real deal car, you may get closer than two feet from what you are viewing. Scale that down to a model and your eyes are 2 inches away. You just don't get that close to a models unless you are building it. Like it or not, our eyes distort things. You will often hear people refer to this as "Scale effect". It happens to solid objects as well as paints. In paints we perceive the color as darker than what we might see in real life through the filters of light passing through air and differences in light sources. Now lets throw the camera into the equation. The problem with trying to look at scale in photographs is that most often photos tend to flatten round objects. This is because we tend to place the light source coming from the same direction that the camera is pointing. Without that shading they look wider than they do when we view them in real time. Look at almost any photo on this web site and see if you see ignition wires that don't have shading across their width. Most look like a uniform color across their width which makes them appear wider in the photo. Here is an example: I know this is an airplane and it really isn't a good example on a car forum, but look at the rigging. To my eye it looks much too thick for the aircraft. It is .010" stainless wire. This is a 1:72 scale model so it scales up to just under 3/4" which is very close to the real deal. The problem here is the photo. The wire either reflects most of the light or blocks it so what you see in the photo is the full width which looks too wide in the photo. In person, with proper shading it looks like the very fine wire that it is and looks to scale. Photos don't always see what the eye sees. Lastly, we most often look at models from above. Where we to do this in real life, it would be like being on a ladder or cherry picker. In real life we most often see vehicle from about chest height or lower. Again a change of perception. For this reason one of the best model companies in the world, Tamiya, will tell you that they change the dimensions of their bodies to accommodate this distortion. Let me finish with this. I am not disagreeing with Tom by any means. Starting with something that is as close to correct scale is a great thing and being way out of scale is really an obvious thing. But I am saying that you can't stop there. I personally believe that we are creating art, not replicas. The difference being that we are in the business of creating things that fool the eye into believing that it is seeing the real deal. There are may tricks that we can use to do this. I am always perplexed when I see a modeler ask how to bend tubing for gas and break lines. Why would you want to use tubing if you can't see the hollow ends. Unless you actually plan on running fluid through them then wire works much better. Again, fooling the eye. So, in general, you need to have a good eye for what you are doing. Scale size is a great place to start, but keep in mind that if it doesn't look right, then adjust it.

The man was definitely a genius! He was in so many films, it is stunning. As a tribute I thought I would throw some up here and see how many you may have not thought of: Popeye, The Survivors, Moscow on the Hudson, Good Morning Vietnam, Dead Poets Society, Cadillac Man, Awakenings, Aladdin(the genie), Mrs. Doubtfire, Being Human, Jumanji, To Wong Foo, Thanks for everything, Jack, The Birdcage, Good Will Hunting, Flubber, Patch Adams, Bicentennial Man, Night at the Museum, Hook, The Butler. And these are just some of the hits. The mans body of work will live forever. Good Morning Vietnam was far and away my favorite. He really nailed the insanity that was southeast Asia. After seeing the outpouring on all the different social media sights, I wonder if he had known how much he is loved by so many, would he have taken his life. Apparently, he hung himself. That seems to me like he was punishing himself. Horrible way to die, and a sad end to a life that brought light to so many people. I will miss him!

Ok, here is a thought for you to chew on. I spend a fair amount on tools and other things for this hobby, but to my surprise they work in with my other hobbies and the fixup work I do around the house. For instance, I have a Shurline mill and lathe. The other day I bought some of the new eloop batteries. Suppose to be a super battery. They only come in AAA but have spacers to make them into C and D sizes. Thought I was getting a good deal for my Maglite. Unfortunately the negative contact spring in the Maglite was too big to make contact with the AAA battery in the spacer. Whip out some brass and turn a button to fit in the spring and they work just fine. Saved having a bunch of expensive batteries around that didn't work in everything. I also use the mill and lathe for turning metal parts such as threaded inserts for my other hobby of wood working. My wife needs to have some of the nick-knacks fixed, hobby tools work wonders on them. It all overlaps. I have probably spent as much on tools as kits, but they are all useful for things beyond the model bench. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Wow, I thought this thread was dead, but it just keep popping up. I would like to thank all of you for your kind comments! It was a challenging build and something that taught me a lot of things I never knew I didn't know. Thank you to all for looking at a aircraft!

Holy stuff! now that is ugly. I guess you can make a pigs ear out of a silk purse, but it takes a lot of work and bad taste. Which middle eastern oil magnet bought that thing!

This isn't the best shot(cell phone camera in a moving car) but I have never seen one of these before. I see Tesla's just about every time I head up to LA on the I-5. Really quite common. In fact I am more likely to see a Tesla rather that a Ferrari or Lamo. But this one is definitely different. It is a totally blacked out mat black(like a wrap) Tesla with red badging. Still has a dealer "plate" on it. Lord Vader, your car is ready!

I the world of psychiatry this is what is know as "The illusion of central position." Generally most people believe that they are like everybody else(or everybody else is like them) and that they think the same thoughts and have the same reasons for what they do. In reality just the opposite is true. Each of us is unique. We are shaped by our lifetime of experiences good and bad and thus see every thing from a different perspective. In short, none of us build for exactly the same reasons as others. We may share some attitudes in varying degrees, but we all do it for our own reasons. My point in starting this post was to point out what a fallacy it is to comment, "I build for fun." and "I build for myself." is, especially when confronted another persons highly detailed well executed model. Those who make those comments in that situation are assuming that the person who did that model isn't having fun. "Fun" is a very subjective thing and each of us creates that fun in our own unique way. The only thing we really share is the medium, which is model building. You can't truly understand why a builder does a build the way they do. You can only accept that they did it in their own way and had their brand of fun doing it. Accept it for what it is and appreciate it and enjoy the hobby.

I stand before the group and declare that "I am a tool geek". There I said it. My wife has said that I have too many, but I love the feel of a finely crafted tool and will go to great lengths to posses them. My favorite saying is "I could build a house with a Swiss army knife, but why would I want to?" To that end, tools that I use with great frequency are the best I can get and tweezers are one of those. I do a lot of very small parts whether they are photo etched, machined aluminum or plastic. At $1 each, very little can be more frustrating that having a .015 turned aluminum nut fly off into the ether because of a cheap pair of tweezers. At $25 for a finely crafted pair of Swiss made tweezers can pay for itself in a very short period of time, not to mention the pleasure of using them. I have a drawer full of inexpensive tweezers and once I got a good pair of Peer-Vigors that is where they stayed. It is a poor workman that blames his tools, but the tool box of a master craftsman(no I don't claim to be a master craftsman just a guy with a lot of experience) will be a collection of tools that work and don't frustrate. Those tools will have been discarded long ago. By the way, of the two pairs that I have, one is a pair of hardened brass tweezers. They are great because they are non-magnetic. From time to time I run into parts that are magnetic. Nice tool to have around.

If you really want great tweezers you have to go to a jewelry tools supplier. These are not cheap but the quality is beyond reproach. They are designed for handling diamonds so they are parallel and very precisely ground. I have had two pairs for probably 10 years now and they are a go to tool. After all this time, I can still pick up a piece of photo etched lying flat on the table edge to edge without fear of it taking a flyer. Here is a search that I did at one of my favorite web sites for such things. I give it to you with a warning, there is a lot of stuff which will suck the money right out of your pocket, but remember pay for a quality tool now or a cheap one now and a good one later after years of frustration. After that, here is the site. http://www.ottofrei.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

I am a bit late to this discussion, but my son(owns a new WRX) and I were having a chat the other day and he said something that got me to thinking and I think it applies here. He asked me "How do you think people can make the decision to buy a Prius." After thinking about it I came to the conclusion that we as a group love cars. We love to look at them, build model of them, even build the real deal from time to time. We have a lot of who we are wrapped up in our cars. On the other had there are a lot of people and I would guess it is the majority, that see the car as a tool! Something to get your around in reasonable comfort, it cheap to own, does all the stuff they want it to like haul a bunch of kids or stuff and is reliable. They could care less if it looks like a box with wheels or worse. It is a tool. So I have decided that those tools on the highway, belong to tools! I don't care about their vehicles as much as they don't.

Yea, I think that is where I was going with this. Buy the kit, paint it, stick the parts to a piece of backer board, frame it and you've got some nice wall art. I'm not even sure that you need to clean it up that much, after all it is a Tamiya kit. Just a nice wall hanging for the den.

I am only saying I may seem contrary to the original poster, like I said, I am glad we are all different. My lack of detail sometimes, does not mean I am not having fun. I would never beat someone down for the way they build. I was only pointing out that what you said was not contrary to my original post unless you start pounding on someone else, which you were not doing. Just keep on, keeping on! Your doing fine.

Your only being contrary if you start beating down someone else for the way they build. There is no wrong way to do what you like when it comes to a hobby. Don't be critical when others don't do it your way.

Oh, I didn't say I don't have unfinished builds around. I have my "Long Term" projects around. My oldest is 15 years old now but that is another story. I have at least 4 other projects in the drawer waiting to be finished.

I am starting this topic to help dispel an apparent myth about those of us who build to a high level of detail. This is not about who should do what, or a diatribe about the "correct way" to build models. It is my personal expression of how and why I build the way I do. First a confession. I build models in all levels of detail from "out of the box" up, but prefer the model with all the correct nuts and bolts and a high level of detail. I also occasionally do commissioned builds, but it is not my occupation. I do enter competitions, but generally only bring one model because my style of building is slow. Often when I display a model, someone will invariable say something like "Great model, but I build for fun" or "Great model, but I build just for me." This implies that I don't have fun building or that I am building my models to impress someone else. This just isn't the case. I build for fun! One of the driving factors in building a model is learning as much as I can before I crack the box open. I love to read about my subject to come to grips with what went into the creation of the original vehicle. There are great resources out there for this now that the internet is as robust as it is, but I still enjoy sitting down with a book and digging in. It is fun to find out things about a subject I never knew. Next, I get a great deal of pleasure out of creating. The more I can add to what came in the box, the better. Just ask my long suffering wife. I don't know how many times she has put up with me walking into the kitchen with a part almost too small to see, beaming with pride. "Very nice honey, what am I looking at?" She is a saint. To me creating some little part that really accurately represents a part on the vehicle in miniature is a source of pride. Overcoming the obstacles to get it just right makes me happy. Making it functional is even better. It is fun to grow ones skill set. I build for myself. Yes, I do. The building I do is really for me. Of all the models I have built, only one is on display in my house. That is a small 1:1000 scale zeppelin that my wife likes. All the rest of my builds and all the trophies are in the garage in boxes. Not because my spouse won't allow it, but because I build for the thrill of being creative. For some this will be hard to understand, but when a build is done, the fun is over. There is very little pleasure in staring at a finished model. It only makes me want to get back out to my shop and have some more fun. So the building is for me. I can't really share the building with others as it is a solitary pursuit. I build for my own personal pleasure. Am I a trophy hound? No. I go to contest because I enjoy spending time with people who share the same passions that I do. I like talking about building models with others. This is the social side of our hobby. I find it great fun to find a model on the table that has something I don't understand and finding out how it was done. There is a lot to be learned from other builders. Everyone has something to teach me. It is a little like the building aspect. For me the contest is over when there is no one left to talk to. Trophy's? Don't care! If I get one, it goes in the box in the garage with the rest of them. Yes, it is nice to get recognized, but I would rather go to an NNL type of format but there are fewer of those around. If you are a detail nut, how to you know when you are done? Well, frankly there is always something else that could be done, but sometimes you just run out of things to do. I have always said, I will have built the perfect model when a three inch high person walks out, starts my model up, and drives off. Some times I run out of things to do, sometimes another project comes along that steals me away from the one I am working on. At that point I button things up and am done. So, the next time you see a really well detailed model on the table and think it is a lot of work and thus no fun to build, think again. All of us are in this hobby because it is fun, but just what that fun is depends on each modeler. My version of fun is not every ones cup of tea, but it is mine. I don't denigrate those who don't wish to detail the heck out of a model. As long as they are having fun, I truly appreciate that. All of us build for ourselves. Otherwise it is not a hobby, it is a job. Enjoy it and appreciate the differences in each builder and the models they bring.

I wasn't sure where this should go but it is under glass. $1,000 on sale for $400? Wow, I have got to get me some frames and start building some of these! In all fairness, they are very nicely painted and assembled. I have seen them in the Tamiya headquarters in Irvine. http://www.tamiyausa.com/items/plastic-model-series-20/masterwork-collection-series-6500/1-24-ferrari-fxx-21217

Frankly, it wasn't the norm because you had to be physically involved in driving a car. All roads were not paved. Driving on dirt or gravel roads required your constant attention. The old cars with bias ply tires were not as inclined to go in a straight line as the newer radials. There were far less traffic control devises so you had to be aware of the traffic at every intersection. Your car was more likely to brake down so you had to be paying attention to how it was running and the gauges. Remember gages? Those were those funny little dials that you had to read and interpret if everything was working right. But enough of the old guy rant! Back to your regular program.

Ok, I just read this bit.http://bangshift.com/general-news/funny-car-folk-art-build-yours-or-buy-mine-helpful-tips-for-building-altered-wheelbase-models/ Thanks for pointing it out Greg. That explains a lot. $200 for the model and a CD explaining how it was done. Maybe that is worth it...once! I just wish he had added that to his description on eBay. Otherwise it just looks like a kit he hacked up and is trying to dump. It is nice to see a builder take a more artistic turn.

Thanks Scott. I knew it was mid 60's sometime. I just couldn't remember the one on my 69 Mustang but I thought it may have had it. I do know that in 69 the shoulder belt became mandatory but it detached and had a clip on the roof to hold it. It also was anchored on the roof panel.

Yup, it looks like he has some skills. I have been mulling this over for a while and trying to decide what bugs me about it. I guess it must come down to an ego thing, but I am having trouble squaring that too. Several people have attested to the fact that he is an approachable "regular guy" and I buy that. But putting a totally unfinished project idea up on eBay for sale just doesn't quite seem right. I know who Steve Magnante is from watching too many car auction shows, and have a great respect for his knowledge. I just don't see how that translates into putting a rough concept model up for sale. Is he trying to trade on his name and position. Yea, the model is a cool idea and if it was finished to the standards of other models of his, it would probably fetch top dollar, but I just can't get my head around this one. Maybe someone has to have a Steve Magnante built model, but I really don't know who that is.

Harry, do you know when it became a federal requirement to have outside mirrors? It seems to me it was in the mid 60's. About the same time that seatbelts became mandatory.

I am old enough to remember polished wiper arms. I also remember using some electrical tape to stop the blinding glare from them. Another area to nitpick for those who would like to do that is the radio antenna. Electric antennas have been around for at least 40 years. If the ignition is off, they are retracted. It seems to me that some time in the late 60's manufactures started to put single wire antennas on cars. Before that they were manually telescoping antennas. A telescoping antenna is not that hard to do. Stainless hypodermic tubing is readily available and can be had in very small sizes. As I recall, most of the antennas had 3 section. Not real hard to replicate.

One piece of advise. MOVE! Man that looks like photos my grandparents took in the 40's of the dust bowl days. That must be heck on everything especially the real deal cars. You probably don't have to worry so much about rust with a free daily sandblasting.