keyser

Mikemodeller, brush up on reading skills. I asked a question to Mr. M about how bigger errors happen. Not minutiae, or rivets (dismissive comment used as defense routinely by misinformed). I mentioned kits from many as examples, including Tamiya (awful Mustang they did), et al. Question wasn't about the specifics of errors, just mechanisms of how they get thru system Mr. M described. Now you tell Mr. M what he can say or can't? Really? I'm in awe.... Hope you have a neat little tiara to wear. You'll be remembered through lunchtime. Moebius is great company, great product, and knows how to get it done. Mr. M gets it done. My old friend Art A. got it done. I'm reasonably confident I know why these issues happen at this point. The distance isn't the problem. Language at that end is an issue, but communication at this end, as Art, Bill, myself, and others have pointed out, seems to be biggest problem. And ownership of same. Waiting for the pickups. Hudson convert from "Two Jakes" and 300 letter cars great. No need for pointing out issues (which are still there even if you deny them since kits are manna, without original sin ) if people like Mr. M and crew get it done. +1000 on the price point. $75 Tamiya stuff and $35-40 minimal issue kits very worth it.

I'm sorry Steve, it was mikemodeller who called someone jack-wagon. Still, the same issue some of us point out at kits can be leveled at HVAC. Sorry I crosswired you, you've been reasonable. I almost didn't post, but couple things were to egregious to leave steaming.

I know Moebius will do far better than this, they hammered their 300. Show you how difficult it is to capture this truck. Or not.

Mr. Metzner, thanks for coming back and commenting further. Agree that long gestations kill profit, enthusiasm within a company, and changes can compound multiple errors. I alluded to the communication issues, as there are many dialects of Chinese, despite common written language. Business often uses Mandarin, but Wu is used in Shanghai, and others in various manufacturing cities. It was awful that the Mints lost all their tools and product. Patent laws are often merely suggestions, and large businesses need people on the ground, multi-lingual, absolutely always. China has been changing for decades, continues to do so, hence overhead reduction. Manpower used to be cheap in China, but no more, and profit margins are pushed higher as growth demands. I've had friends doing business in China for decades, and their growth and learning curve has been far steeper than most, similar to Vietnam's. As we see now acutely, Russia left in the dust. My work didn't allow for mistakes generally, I'm a chest physician, did ICU too. Retired last year due to cancer, but was multitasking for many years. Errors weren't acceptable. Model cars are generally irrelevant pastimes, but it should look like it's intended. Hot Wheels, Maisto do it, even Lego does nice T1 bus with square blocks. Wiper motors, Xbraces on 57 Belair convertibles? Who cares? Rooflines, fenders, proportions matter. If not to you, awesome. I guess mikemodeler's calling people that have different standards as he has "jack-wagons". Cool. Tom Geiger, your couple rants about "jack-wagons", running off Dave M, and need for "perfect" kits and "minutiae" like roof contours, etc. pretty much pull same fallacies as usual. You and I both know good kits, and some of these aren't good. It isn't about "perfect" (everyone's words but the people complaining about flaws), and it isn't about "minutiae", as you called it. Moebius sounds like they've beat their head on a Chinese wall for the 60's Ford pickup for years, and I have no doubt fixes have created other problems. Test shot posted awhile back had things that weren't quite minutiae, but not my place to point it out, as it was work in progress. If someone asked, I'm happy to help. However, looking at a very flawed MotorMax diecast makes it easy to understand Moebius' blasted timeline. Harry P, I agree with your comments. I do believe that there are some free resources to help kit makers check accuracy. I also think Bill's comment about rapid prototyping with 3D printing is on the mark. The files are the issue, guys that have seen the car, or the references, and can correspond with the manufacturer are the crucial step. Breeding the cow takes work. Everything else is just making the sandwich look nice and fit in our mouth. Real class indeed. Love the emperor's clothes, or gtfo: PS: These threads are not unique to this board, and pale compared to an IPMS discourse. Just sayin' Mediocrity-It's what we do best!

I wonder if LOUD ENGLISH is primary verbal communication language for non-Moebius manufacturers? Just sayin' Just noticed BTW, there are 3-4 of us with 3-4 posts each, and 80 responses in the thread. Probably 30 supporting Mr. M, and the rest minus HVAC rants telling us "...perfection bad, perfection kill natives..." Gotta go back and look at some of these threads, see what percentage are pointing out obvious, and percentage complaining about whining, birthers, and Shtuppers. Hmmm. Nah.

You probably did, at least design-wise IIRC Bourke didn't want 1/4 windows, but I may have that confused. In progress design stuff is always cool. I've got a lot of PF drawings, love great looking cars. Starliner still one of the best.

Sorry to ask, but should I stop posting the stuff I have on Studes? I think it's pretty cool, and I found some pics of the Due Cento at Bonneville with Granatelli and fender skirts I've never seen before. I have to put those on the version of that I'm doing. Takes a lot of space, and time to post. If it's not helpful, I'll just punt. LMK please, and thanks. L

Tom, I pointed out Mr. Metzger (I don't know him, I respect him, and his company is above repute, so I'm showing respect using proper name) is not the problem, and discussed the issue of original tooling accuracy. Mr. M pointed out costs and complexity, as I'm well aware, of modifying test shots. Measure twice, cut once seems to be operative phrase, as with any effort. And at this point, you don't need to send 1:1. Just a thumb drive full of reference photos, some Baidu links, and have decent Mandarin/English translation fāngyán (方言, literally "place speech") So what has anyone said, myself, Bill (Ace-garage), or otherwise that would keep you from posting? Not argumentative, just baffled why Mr. M listens to input, and fixes issues, while that is NOT the case elsewhere. I've read and agree with his post. Even my old friend Art A basically said +1. I won't try to make people see the emperors clothes/lack thereof, and as far as I'm concerned, new kits on this board are without original sin. Manna from above. The fact I'm celebrating Hannukah probably negates most of that, but hey. Happy holidays to you, Art, Mr. M, Tim B, and anyone else that reads the stuff I type.

When China, Korea, India sell at $.30, with duty cycles of 4-5y, that anyone will survive with never-ending HVAC/appliances/whatever? Really? You think people who complain about gas prices and $2 increase in model prices will pay for quality not price? You going to pop for high end HVAC for 15k, or get something for 10k? It's the way the market is, the economy. There is NO customer loyalty. There are NO promises, and you take what you get. Rebrand/minor tweaks, and it's a NEW!! Improved!! product. Walmart, Home Depot, etc. all sell on price, make huge profits. You're not getting ripped off. That's how companies have to do business to SURVIVE. Welcome to the 21st century. I can fix kits. I can scratchbuild. I can make a sandwich too. I don't buy food at a restaurant to make my own sandwich. I don't buy a kit if I want to scratchbuild, or fix stuff THAT SHOULD BE CORRECT. Someone's frigging JOB was to see it was correct. Repeatedly, in many different kits. Not rocket science. How hard is it to understand that?

Casey, they don't scream about accuracy, but they squeal like a murder victim if the kit price is $.005 more. With coupon, gift card, and shuttle bus to get it. Low hanging fruit indeed. Customer more than product.

If furnaces lasted longer than 10 years, would companies make a profit on repeat business? Or anything else for that matter? Duty cycle for most appliances and HVAC is closer to 7-10 years, you got 13y. Water heaters last 5-6 tops. You're lucky. And if you have a quality niche product, do you WANT it in Walmart? So you can get your wholesale beak ripped and have compromising requests made by people that only care about what they sell today? Perfect venue for the "perfect" kits y'all love, and it'll save the horrible effort of pullng up a coupon for 40% on your phone (actually, flip phones don't show coupons, so clip away).

I give up. All new kits are perfect, and if a 60 year old car that's not correct is OK, despite .003 sec google to show you, or anyone who knows them says it looks wrong, knock yourselves out. You deserve the dreck some are putting out. Mr. Metzger, you guys are doing a great job. You fixed the Hudson rear axle issue, and helped people fix it before you fixed it. Doubt anyone noticed here, that'd be complaining unnecessarily. Mediocrity is NOT acceptable. Like several of us have pointed out, get big stuff right. costs far less to do it right first time, than revisions. Chinese artisans have never bloody seen a Cuda, or LX Mustang, or Hudson, or any western car for that matter. I'd guess recognizing that, sending a dumpload of pics off net as well as a well measured and photo documented 1:1 seems important. Chinese don't have Google, it's against the law. But they have BAIDU, and we can send pics. But all that is irrelevant to the tender-eared sycophants that enjoy ignoring lazy work, or fixing other people's lousy efforts. Wilted lettuce, hair in their burgers, and 1/2 of the 30 page Mustang thread as apologists. Pearls amongst....

I hear you on blowing up the motor thing. Still, preferable to getting punted into the wall by someone using my door as an apex And more often than not brand new it was the builders issue if it blew up. I have a nice expensive paperweight on my desk showing miracle of hurrying when putting in valve retainers. Offered a "free" motor build once we pointed out the issues. Do it right the first time, I'm a builder too, not an assembler (or finisher lol), but I don't like redoing parts that the manufacturer should get right. I have a ton of Hiro kits, and even they have issues at times, but rarely basic things. I also have very high end resin that is wrong. Which promptly gets sold, and not bought again. Plastic kits are cheap hobbies, but it still has to be accurate. Proportional that's hard to fix, like a roof, or DLO, or even a windowsill that doesn't taper enough, which necessitates fixing body, both sides, and interior with reconstruction, probably 30-40' just to fix something that should have been correct on a brand new tool. Really? Why do I need to fix someone else's screwup? People say be happy we even have a kit, or form your own company. Idiotic. Nice work Mr. Metzger, you rendered Art speechless. Been waiting decades to see that

Bill, he's implying you're one of the cry-babies who shouldn't complain, we're lucky to have kits at all. Balsa is the most accurate medium of all it seems. Mr. Metzner, thank you for your comments. I understand many of the issues, and Moebius does nice work. Your group seem to respond at an earlier stage to input, and one of the main issues you allude to is the need for accurate 1:1, and people who know it well enough to notice errors. There is no such thing as a "perfect kit" thrown up in other posts. However, the complaints I and others have are errors that are essential to the look of a car. The sill line on the 57 Bel-Air convertible, the grille issues with the 67 Camaro, the roof of the Fox Mustangs, the door length of the 36 Ford roadster (dating to '62 issue, so not new, was expedient to production, and nobody cared then), the 57 Fury, etc.... All these problems aren't subtle if you know the cars. If you don't know or care, great. The "grateful we have any kit, everyone else shut up" group aren't very discerning, evidently. If a problem is easy to fix, most of us will buy a kit and fix it. Doesn't mean we shouldn't mention it, after all, no kit is perfect, and it'll help people build better kits. If problem isn't easily fixed, and is important to the car, as a consumer, why should we fix it, or be happy with it? Why should we buy a flawed kit? As a manufacturer who aims at the "lunatic fringe" more than most, what flaws are ok with bodies/trim? Interior size/resolution/restorations are far easier errors to overlook. Chassis/mechanical errors not crucial unless glaring, I'd guess. Again, not putting you on the spot, just simple questions nobody addresses. No obligation to answer, you're very forthcoming with your product. I looked at the test shot thread on the 67-72 truck thread awhile back, and did see some areas of concern, but it was a test shot, and seemed like things had been spotted pretty well. If not, there are some issues that really aren't good to go to the end user. If we use a hypothetical that that was a final pre-production shot (which is definitely was NOT), how much money (hypothetically) would cost to fix all of it? perhaps as number of kits sold/not sold, or percentage of cost basis, or however you wish. It's very puzzling why large errors make it through. Revell, AMT, Tamiya (94 Mustang, couple others), Pocher (993), Trumpeter, etc. And it isn't confined to smaller scales, either. Thanks for all your posts here

I agree with much you wrote, usually in 30-60's the boss got credit for employee work, certainly in styling and advertising However, here's a Loewy sketch from 42 that demonstrates a direction, if not final finish, which was usually left to staff. Here's a bullet-nosed 53 Starliner concept drawing RL did a Jag XK140 about the same time, which used many features of the 53 Starliner. Car built about same time, but more extreme. A member of the Stude club owns this prototype, which was cut down from a 51 Starlight coupe as styling model. RL's personal BMW 507 with many features of Avanti. Sadly far uglier. Patented 1959 Here's a fun annotated drawing of an Avanti proposal from a desert trip in '61. RL made change comments on drawings. Set of these sold for $$$

Factory called a couple cars the Due Cento (200, as in MPH) Factory car had fuel injection, that's the silver box in front, with air intakes going out to the blowers, then pressurised intake charge going back to heads via the black hoses outboard. Pretty trick for 1963 or so. Granatelli had involvement via Paxton.

Here's pic of a 1:1 R5 twin supercharged motor that is in kit. Not a ton of info out there, good pics not exactly out there.

That's a Heller R8 Gordini in a Union Japanese re-box. They did Heller, IMC, and Airfix, plus some 1/20 kits. Esci had nothing to do with that AFAIK. https://www.google.com/search?q=union+model+kits&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=713&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=U9aMVIShOezdsATRmYKICw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAw#tbm=isch&q=union+memorial+collection+model+kits&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=riP2P4tqLAb-cM%253A%3ByNExZHBR3AtU7M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.ebayimg.com%252F00%252Fs%252FNzY4WDEwMjQ%253D%252Fz%252FKaEAAOSwajVUMzgm%252F%2524_1.JPG%253Fset_id%253D880000500F%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fgeb.ebay.in%252Fg%252FImportHubViewItem%253Fitemid%253D311161090845%2526Union-Memorial-Collections-Porsche-907-8-Le-Mans-Model-Kit-Mint-in-Box-1-24-MIB%3B400%3B300

Stock 914/6 handling was twitchier than an early 911. Trail throttle oversteer ugly. Alignment and tire/wider wheels/shock tuning make all the difference. With motor swap, flipped 915 or Z50 box, and coilovers, things are amazing. 2.8L Weber 46IDA GT way back in late 70's was untouchable. 35 years later, 3.8 MOTEC will send lots home to mama.

Browse this site http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/projects/914-6/, some amazing work. Track monsters, 3.8 914 will be insane. Couple nice street ones too when scrolling. Really want this one back, German resin 914/6 GT out there too, nice but $$$ Gotta find clean 1.7 lump and send it off to these guys. 3.8 in a 1800# car. Killer.

914/6's were 2L flat 6s. Even 914/6 GT's had 2L. Lots ended up with 2.7-2.8 or 3.0-3.2's swapped in, and flipped 915 gearboxes. Richie's car had cut down windshield, no stock windshield frame. Really decent kit for being issued in '70 or so. Here's a fairly nice stocker: http://sloancars.com/4768/1970-914-6-tangerineblack-75000-miles/

Esci did some interesting cars and trucks pre-AMT/Ertl BMW M1 and M1 Procar, Porsche 934 (Decent, haven't compared to new Tamiya of same car yet), Land Rover 109 in several versions, Early 2 door Range Rover Classic in several versions, Mercedes G-class (Gelandwagen) 4-door, Toyota FJ-40/44 IIRC, Ford Escort Mk 2, Mecedes 190E, 2.3-16 in several versions, Renault R5 (non-mid engined car), BMW 320i Racecar, Lancia Beta Montecarlo race car, Lancia Stratos, Ford Transit Van, and a Jeep CJ. A few had bodies in clear in several versions. I may have forgotten a couple, but I've got probably 3/4 of these and they're decent. The Stratos was a rebox of a Nitto kit, which was a nice model, but the Esci had decals of an unusual but successful team. Almost forgot the awful 250SWB, and they did a Ferrari Boxer too, Boxer may have had Japanese origins like the Stratos, though it was not great. They did some nice airplanes too. 1/72 DC-3 and C-47. I've got one with Aeroflot markings, and it's a very nice kit, even compared to the new Airfix tool of same. Ertl/Esci issued AMT 58 Impala, 63 Vette, a few others. I've only seen the former. I've never seen much issue with fitment, and my BMW M1's were both perfect. Tires and wheels may be a bit small on the racecars, but not excessive. HTH L OK, link to wiki reminded me of the Mercedes 450 SLC 5.0 which I have, and Lamborghini Miura and Countach.

The tires melt the wheels badly, so avoid OEM's (Airfix/Heller kits had them, this was Airfix kit reboxed). Track down Airfix Little Nelly Autogyro kit (1/24, re-issued in last 10yr) to put with it, same movie. Great kit, lots of detail, can build as Bond car. I'm idiot, buy them when I see them. 3 unbuilts and a builder. I've got a builder with melted wheels and tires I'm bashing with an Otaki/Nitto coupe with mags, to give it engine/detail. Hasegawa kit nice too. Good luck with build. Driver in movie was Aki (Akiko Wakabayashi). You Only Live Twice

Cool. Orange Cratey. Dragula scoops and 64 cutlass blower drives, E type bumpers? 240Z HL buckets, Silhouette trailer, AMTronic bits, Very cool. .. Love wheels, need some. Hess Motorhome needs upgrade from what I swapped to before. Hood making me nuts, as is body. Longitudinal sectioned Viper? Lots of thrash on that.

Ron, that Country Squire looks nice. Are those the pieces from Holthaus? or a nice cleanup of an original bashed with a 300? Stance is perfect.