Harry P.

Mike, I won't dispute your facts. You're a union man and I'm not... all I have to go by is what I see/hear/read. And the fact is, there is almost NO information available on the Job Bank program from the "horse's mouth" (either the UAW or the Big Three). I've tried to find some information, but not much luck. Seems like they don't want to make too much information available... gee, I wonder why? All the information that I can find, while differing on some of the finer points, seems to agree that the Job Bank pays laid-off workers almost full salary, plus benefits, for not working! That part is beyond dispute, I think... and I'm sure that even Ron Gettelfinger now realizes how unrealistic and unsustainable the program is, given the current state of the Big Three. And when the head of the UAW himself agrees that the Job Bank's day may have passed, well, that speaks volumes, doesn't it? BTW, just to be clear... my criticism of the UAW is not a criticism of the union members. Hell, if I was a UAW member I'd take all the pay and benefits that were coming to me, too! I do NOT blame the workers, or think they're "greedy"... they're just taking what's being given to them. It's not the workers that made the demands, it's the union that did... and the automakers agreed to the demands! The guy on the line has been caught in the middle of this mess, largely through no fault of his own. But I do believe the UAW has been greedy, and that the UAW's demands over the years have been a substantial contributing factor in the automaker's current problems. Like I said, not the cause, but a big part.

I only made a "veiled" reference, instead of a specific one, to the model in question because that was the one that just so happened to get me thinking on this topic, NOT because I think it's somehow poorly done or "doesn't meet my standards"! I specifically did NOT want to "call out" the builder as having creating a "bad" model, because that's not my point or intent... but simply put, seeing that model sparked my post. The fact is, in my opinion that model is not "poorly done" at all... I never said that! In fact, I freely admit that I don't have the skill to paint a chassis like that, so hat's off to the talent and craftsmanship of the builder. I think I mentioned that I recognized the skill and craftsmanship involved to create that look in my initial post. My question, as I stated to begin with, is simply whether that type of weathering is actually an accurate representation of the "real thing". Just because I brought up the topic doesn't mean I "don't approve" of someone else's work... and besides, whether or not I, or anyone else for that matter, "approves" is totally irrelevant. My approval of the model isn't the topic being discussed here (and I never made any remarks as to whether or not I "approve" of the model anyway), I just brought up what I thought was an interesting question, with no implied criticism of the model or anyone else's responses to the post. I'm not placing my "standards" on other's work... I'm not saying he's wrong in doing it that way. A model is a personal expression, and the builder should do whatever he wants to do, regardless of anyone else's "standards". Sheesh, I'm just talkin' here... Isn't that what a forum is for?

Raisin, I can only go by what I see/hear/read. Whether GM "created" the job bank to appease the UAW or whether the UAW demanded the creation of it as payback for layoffs due to plant modernization and "flexible" production schedules is irrelevant at this point. Doesn't matter WHO "created" it, the fact is that it exists (albeit in a smaller scale than previously). And it's one of the negotiating points in the current Big Three bailout request: From autoblog.com: Posted Dec 1st 2008 3:01PM by Jeremy Korzeniewski Filed under: Hirings/Firings/Layoffs, Chrysler, LLC., Ford, GM, Earnings/Financials, UAW/Unions As you read this, there are about 3,000 unionized workers -- down from about 15,000 two years ago -- employed by the Detroit 3 getting paid, despite the fact that they aren't working. While it's nice for America's automakers to have access to a talent-pool of available workers, it's also a major financial drain on an industry that's already reeling from a distinct lack of profits. And with new cutbacks and layoffs being announced almost daily, these "job banks" are increasingly tough to justify, even for the UAW. It's always been a bit of a competitive disadvantage, at least on paper, as non-UAW competitors like Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai do not keep such job banks. To ease Detroit's transition from bloated, money-losing corporations to lean "right-sized" competitors, UAW Prez. Ron Gettelfinger has brought up the job banks and their possible elimination. Will this be a part of the overall plan to become competitive that the Detroit 3 bring to Congress? We'll find out soon enough. [source: Wall Street Journal] From truthaboutcars.com (Ed Niedermeyer): Eligible employees can not be laid off because of new technology (robots), sourcing decisions, or company-implimented efficiency actions. There are generally three states of layoff: temporary layoffs where workers know their return date, indefinite layoffs where workers get 48 weeks of unemployment benefits and a supplemental from their employer equal to 100 percent of your salary. After 48 weeks workers are reemployed by the Job Bank, at which time they receive 95 percent of their salary. They don’t get seniority, but they do continue to receive health benefits. While in protected status, employees may be assigned to training programs, certain non-traditional jobs, openings at other UAW locations (they only have to accept them if the job is within 100 miles of their home, otherwise they can stay in job banks), and other assignments “consistent with the intent of the program.” From the Chicago Tribune: UAW plans to change contract, drop job bank Dow Jones Newswires 11:31 AM CST, December 3, 2008 Leaders of the United Auto Workers union are close signing off on changes to the 2007 labor contract with Detroit's three auto makers, in a move that would relax job-security provisions and push back the date on when a new healthcare trust becomes active, people familiar with the matter said. The UAW leadership is holding an emergency meeting in Detroit Wednesday to discuss changes the union can make to help General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC remain viable. The UAW's willingness to make a new set of concessions is seen as a critical part of Detroit's push to secure a $34 billion bailout from the government. During its meeting Wednesday morning, UAW brass - including analysts and local leaders from across the U.S. - discussed the changes they need to make. Two major changes being voted on include scaling back the so-called Jobs Bank that pays near-full compensation to idled workers; and a move to push back the date when a new healthcare trust, known as a VEBA, needs to be funded, people attending the meeting said. From the Associated Press: DETROIT (AP) — The United Auto Workers said Wednesday it is willing to change its contracts with U.S. automakers and accept delayed payments of billions of dollars to a union-run health care trust to do its part to help the struggling companies secure $34 billion in government loans. United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger said the union will suspend the jobs bank, in which laid-off workers are paid up to 95 percent of their salaries while not working, but he did not give specifics or a timetable of when the program will end. "We're going to sit down and work out the mechanics," Gettelfinger said at a news conference after meeting with local union officials. "We're a little unclear on some of the issues." Members of Congress criticized the automakers last month for paying workers who are not on the job. About 3,500 auto workers across the three companies are currently in jobs bank programs. One local union member who was in the meeting said the changes to the jobs bank would nearly eliminate the program. The member asked not to be identified because the details had not been made public. Gettelfinger stopped short of saying the union would reopen contract talks with General Motors Corp., Chrysler LLC and Ford Motor Co. but said it would be willing to return to the bargaining table to change some terms. Talks with GM will begin immediately, but additional bargaining officials must be elected for Ford and Chrysler, Gettelfinger said, and any modifications would still have to be ratified by local union members. GM had been scheduled to pay more than $7.5 billion early next year to the union-administered fund which will take over retiree health care payments on Jan. 1, 2010. Ford owes $6.3 billion to its trust fund at the end of this year. Chrysler figures were unavailable. UAW vice president representing Chrysler workers, said union members "historically do the right thing" in terms of making concessions during tough times, although the moves outlined Wednesday came to fruition following last month's congressional thrashing. Looks like everyone is coming to realize that the Job Bank is an institution that simply can't be justified by an auto industry on the verge of collapse ... heck, even the head of the UAW now agrees.

Yep, that's it. A car starts out all clean and shiny underneath, with all the various components in their factory original finish... but typically (unless you steam-clean the chassis of your car constantly) soon everything gets covered over in a fairly uniform coating of crud, dirt, road grime, whatever you want to call it... like Art said, in whatever color the local "dirt" happens to be... and the original colors of the individual components become less obvious. A chassis doesn't "weather" component by component, with each component always retaining its factory color with no other stuff covering it. If you're depicting a typical car that's been driven (a daily driver), then to be realistic (i.e., an accurate representation of the real thing) the weathering ought to look similar to the photo above. A lot of chassis "weathering" I've seen, while obviously requiring a lot of talent and patience to get the final effect, isn't really realistic at all, that is, it doesn't look like what a real car would look like, but as Bob mentioned, it sort of gives an "impression" of realism because people look at it and marvel at the various finishes and tones, etc.

Really??? You think his models are that poorly done???

ok, Mark... I can't let that one go without a rebuttal... The fact is, there are several contributing factors at work in the current Big Three mess. It's not just unions, it's not just CEO salaries, it's not just this or just that.... it's a combination of things. But union contracts are a huge part of the problem. GM's "legacy costs" per vehicle are roughly ten times those of Toyota! That's a built-in "head start" Toyota has on every vehicle it produces vs. GM. Compared to most other "blue collar" workers in America, when you factor in wages, benefits, pensions, medical coverage, etc., unionized employees of the Big Three have traditionally made out like bandits, thanks to the incredible leverage the UAW had in the past. A perfect example of the union's part in the current mess: The infamous "job bank". In case any of you never heard of the job bank, here's the story: When American automakers began to try and streamline their factories and automate many previously "manned" operations in the 80s, in order to better compete with the Japanese automakers, the union, in return for the loss of some union jobs due to modernizing and streamlining operations, came up with a demand for the creation of a "job bank". What that meant in plain English is that laid-off auto workers couldn't really be laid off. They simply had to report to the "job bank" office every day and collect most of their salary for doing absolutely nothing! That's right... the automakers tried to save money by automating and streamlining operations, but because of the union demands, they wound up paying all those unnecessary workers to not work!!! In other words, the new, modernized plants required fewer workers to build cars than before, but instead of removing those now unnecessary workers from the payroll and saving money, the automakers had to pay all those people to not work! Is that insane or what??? From DetroitNews.com: "Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits. "We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat." Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union. The jobs bank programs were the price the industry paid in the 1980s to win UAW support for controversial efforts to boost productivity through increased automation and more flexible manufacturing". The UAW is not the only reason the Big Three are in a mess... but obviously they are a contributing factor. Keep in mind, I'm not bashing the union workers... heck, if I was a unionized auto worker I'd gladly take the pay and benefits too! My point is, the union is going to have to rethink it's traditional "us vs. them" mentality and realize that major concessions are going to have to be made in order for the Big Three to survive. They can't continue to insist it's all management's fault... because it's not.

But that was hours ago!!! Actually yeah,I did forget about that post. My memory isn't exactly the best... Wait...what were we talking about again?

What I'm saying is, even taking differences of geography, weather, etc., into consideration, pretty soon any car's chassis would become covered in a more or less uniform shade of "crud". (oil leaks aside, Jairus... ). The chassis components would never "weather" without all of them picking up a fairly uniform coating of crud. For example, if the rear axle came painted black from the factory, and the driveshaft was "steel" and the shocks were blue, after a few months on the road all of those components would be pretty much covered by a coating of uniform "dirt" color. You'd see very little black, steel and blue anymore.

Runs and hides??? Whatchootalkinbout, Willis???

I was looking at a post of a builder's latest model, and he had gone to great lengths to "weather" the chassis. There was all sorts of oxidation, rust, streaks, etc., etc., all meticulously done, and I'm sure it took a bit of skill to create all the different finishes and effects on the various chassis components... and a few of the replies commented on how "very realistic" it looked, but it got me to thinking... By the time a real car's chassis gets to the point where the underbody components would show signs of age, the entire chassis would be basically all one shade of gray. Think about it! A car is driven in the weather, over puddles, through dirt and mud, etc. Very soon, a new car's chassis is covered by a pretty uniform coat of medium gray generic "dirt". If you don't believe me, take a look at the underside of your car the next time it's up on a rack getting an oil change or a brake job. I guarantee you, you'll see almost nothing but gray, not the individual components in their factory-original but "weathered" colors. If actual realism is the goal, wouldn't it be far more prototypically realistic to paint everything medium gray instead of painting everything in different colors and "weathering" the chassis?

News flash: the Wall St. Journal, Barrons and the Times are part of the media! And print media is no more "reliable" or "honest" than electronic media. The Times, for example, is one of the most obviously liberal-leaning papers in the country! Great news source if you're a liberal... not quite so good if you lean right. No matter where you get your information, print, TV, web, whatever... you have to read between the lines and not take everything at face value. After all, reporters are just people, and people have opinions and biases, even when they're not supposed to let it show or influence their "reporting". Best bet is to gather news from many sources... that way you get a broader picture of an issue, and you are in a much better position to take an intelligent position. If you only rely on one or two sources for the news, you're only hearing the side of the story that that particular source believes to be true. And it may not necessarily be the truth at all...

Yeah, but the magazine is published on Hawaii time... they're a month behind us...

The November issue of MCM has a feature on the Chicago iHobby show, including lists of upcoming releases.

http://ehobbyland.stores.yahoo.net/tr19chnossco.html http://www.ehobbies.com/tsm2504.html Just to name two. They're available from a whole lot of places...

Just curious... why remove the chrome, then try to duplicate what was there in the first place with paint???

WOW, Art!!! You really let loose there with your point-for-point response to Peter's post! All I can say is I'm happy that one of my little posts was the springboard for one of your best posts ever. Not that I necessarily agree with you 100% (as you undoubtedly already know)... but reading a post as well written and insightful as yours is always a pleasure. BTW... Peter, you're no slouch either. I love reading posts that are thoughtful and well-stated, regardless of whether I agree or not. Who says us grownups can't talk politics here and be civil about it?

The really good ones don't wear anything at all!

George... I can't reveal my sources. If I tell you guys, it makes it harder for me to come up with a new subject every week (it's hard enough already!!!) If you really are serious about where to get it, PM me and I'll fill you in. Of course I'd have to swear you to secrecy under penalty of death...

It's a 1/18 scale diecast...probably tampo printed right onto the "glass". However... 1/24-25 scale defroster grid decals would be a problem, because they would have to be printed on clear decal sheet. Once you applied it to the glass, odds are that you'd see the clear part of the decal in one way or another, either because of bubbles or dust caught under the decal, or you'd see the clear film itself. Either way the "in scale" effect would be lost...

ok, you guys got this one... it's a MODEL! 1/18 scale die-cast (who says die-casts aren't models???) Next ROM coming MONDAY!

Actually I'm too young to remember the 50s... I grew up in the late 60s-early 70s. My memories of of a slightly more... uh, "unsettled" society. I remember the assassinations of RFK and MLK, the riots and the burning of Chicago (and most other American cities) as a reaction, the hippies and "flower power", Woodstock, Altamont, the "Summer of Love" ( I was only 10 or 11 but I was a hippie "wanna-be"... I thought they were so cool! ), Haight-Ashbury, "acid rock", the '68 Democratic National Convention and watching the riots in Grant Park on TV, the first man on the moon, Watergate, etc. Pretty crazy times! My exposure to the 50s was primarily via old reruns of TV shows from that era. But as TV is a mirror of the times, it seems to me that growing up a car-crazy kid in the 50s must have been a real nice way to grow up.

Back then, our society truly was different. We had much more interpersonal interaction back then...kids played together as a group, people actually talked to each other face to face (what a concept!!!), and basically society functioned in a different way... a better way, IMO. Things have gotten much more technologically advanced for sure, and we are better off in many ways today than we were in the 50s, but we are sorely missing the "old way" of life. Our current society could benefit greatly if we could go back to the "old way" of living. We have lost a huge part of what makes us a society...we are now much more a group of unconnected individuals rather than the interacting society we were back then. People sometimes think that memories of life in the 50s are distorted by "rose colored glasses", but in my opinion, as far as society goes, things really were better back then.

Hey... family friendly site... remember???

http://www.suntimes.com/business/1308960,C...-auto02.article

How much do you think a defroster grid would weigh???!!!