Yet another paint question re: clear coats

[StevenGuthmiller]

 Most (if not all) of the best looking paint jobs I've seen on this site, seem to have been done using various combinations of lacquers, and I'm trying my darnedest to make my cars look as good, but am having no luck at all, I mean just none.

I can assure you, most of my paint jobs right "out of the shop" look little if any better than the worst of yours. The trick is all in the color-sanding and polishing, whether of the colored paint or the clearcoat. Well, that and pre-primer preparation of the body itself.

As they say in rock n roll: "We'll fix it in the mix."

Same here.

I guess there are "pros" on the forum who can muster perfect paint jobs every time with no polishing, but I'm not one of them.

I just strive to do as little of it as possible, because I absolutely hate polishing!!

I don't mind polishing, but BMF was going to be the death-of-the-hobby for me... I took days and days to get up the desire to BMF an entire model... even broke up the session into smaller sub-sessions, but no matter, I still hated it. And I hated it even more when I started having trouble with it sticking! BTW, I do consider you to be one of those "pros on the forum", for whatever reason including ones you hate, you sure turn out some drop-dead gorgeous finished pieces!!!

I don't mind foiling, but it can become tedious.

I usually split it up over several sessions, especially if your subject is particularly "heavy" in trim.

It's one of those things that I've spent a large portion of my modeling career trying to perfect because I believe it to be very important to produce a nice finished product.

Along with paint, I feel they're the most important parts to a build.

All of the engine & chassis detailing in the world will not hide grainy paint or a wrinkly foil job.

 

Steve

[AzTom]

Yes. I'm sure they could be built up even deeper but I think some of the real deep clear coats look out of scale, kind off like the large metal flakes.  I easily get them as good or better than the factory diecast paint jobs

Here is one of my latest with no polishing. 

[fseva]

    Along with paint, I feel they're the most important parts to a build.

All of the engine & chassis detailing in the world will not hide grainy paint or a wrinkly foil job.

I have less trouble doing the decorative side-spears, etc., than I do the frames around the windows... That's where I'm having the most trouble, but I believe my problem inside the model is exactly what you've stated - the paint (if there's any there) is unfinished and grainy - a surface that is just impossible for BMF to hold on to. I'm starting now to actually airbrush the inside of the window frames in preparation for foil that's folded over from the outside.

[Roadrunner]

The issues you explain now, only after polishing is a different story than we started with.  Yes, if you are using polish with silicone that is the problem. Another note, if you have used those polishes on any paint and decide to do some sanding, wash the wax off good before you start sanding. Sanding will just keep rubbing the wax into the paint. Again, I wash mine with Rubbing alcohol, usually the 70% but I also have 91% for the tough stuff. 

I seldom need to polish my paint. Practice, practice, practice!

Agreed. My initial question was based upon the fact that I just Saturday bought a can of clear coat, only to then question if it was the same or similar to ultra, and if wet look was then different from these first two. The fact that the conversation morphed into other areas, is perfectly OK with me, as I seem to have some "issues" in general with painting my cars after all these years.

Though I've yet to use the wet look, I certainly intend to, though I now believe most of my problems are a direct consequence of clear coats being too thin, followed up with wet sanding/polishing mistakes. I'm hoping this thread may not only serve the function of answering my myriad questions, but may also help others in the process.

[AzTom]

There is also a Testor Clear enamel #1237, For myself, I wouldn't even try this.

By the way, that Willys is ModelMaster Base Coat lacquer  with Duplicolor clear.

[Roadrunner]

There is also a Testor Clear enamel #1237, For myself, I wouldn't even try this.

By the way, that Willys is ModelMaster Base Coat lacquer  with Duplicolor clear.

I couldn't agree more. Most of the clear enamels that I've ever seen, are usually slightly amber. That's not to say they're all like that, but that's what I've seen anyway. And your Willys looks excellent, very nice color and finish.

What specific color was used as the base?

[fseva]

By the way, that Willys is ModelMaster Base Coat lacquer  with Duplicolor clear.

Is that Duplicolor or Duplicolor Professional clear (both in rattle cans)?

Edited August 4, 2015 by fseva

[AzTom]

Both spray cans. The Dupli-Color can says "Acrylic Lacquer Clear Coat" 

[Longbox55]

I have a can or 2 of the Duplicolor Acrylic Lacquer as well. Not bad stuff, but if the humidity is way up, it takes a while to dry. But it does lay down a nice finish, especially considering it's rattle can.

I used to use that Testors enamel clear, it has a definite amber tint to it, and it gets darker as it ages. It'll even get darker in bottle. The Boyds version of it, which isn't being made anymore, seems to be much clearer, with only the slightest amber tint. I no longer use it as a final clearcoat, but I do sometimes use it in Testors enamel, mainly metallic, to get a "candy" effect to them.

[fseva]

Both spray cans. The Dupli-Color can says "Acrylic Lacquer Clear Coat" 

I believe that's their regular line. I've used the Professional lacquer clear coat and I'm not sure if I can tell a difference!? However, it's a moot point for me, now that I've started to use Exact Match clear for my finish on Duplicolor projects.

[AzTom]

What specific color was used as the base?

It is Nassau Blue Metallic #28128

[Roadrunner]

It is Nassau Blue Metallic #28128

It's beautiful. I'll be hunting down some of that. Thanks,

[Roadrunner]

The first of my spoon tests, if for no other reason than it's fun, but it also shows me that the paint is not the problem. Testors Mystic Emerald and Blazing Black, both with four coats of Testors Ultra Gloss clear, shot over Dupli-Color white sandable primer, no polishing at all.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Roadrunner

[AzTom]

There you go. They look great.

I always have primered spoons ready and spay every color I use for future color choices on projects. Nothing better than seeing the real thing.

[High octane]

While many builders rely on the "spoon method" of testing paint colors, primers, clears, etc. and it is a great idea, I myself just "shoot from the hip" meaning from the can to the model and so far it seems to work for me.

[Roadrunner]

There you go. They look great.

I always have primered spoons ready and spay every color I use for future color choices on projects. Nothing better than seeing the real thing.

Yep, I think that I have been the problem all along. I also did a half hearted airbrushing test on an old hulk, using the spray bomb paints, and with some thinning, believe that may be a better way to go in the long run, but I'm still experimenting.

While many builders rely on the "spoon method" of testing paint colors, primers, clears, etc. and it is a great idea, I myself just "shoot from the hip" meaning from the can to the model and so far it seems to work for me.

An interesting approach, and exactly how I managed to botch three paint jobs in a row, although as I now believe, it was "operator error" all along, and no fault of the paints themselves, though the Testors cans do leave something to be desired.

Next up, I'll use the wet look clear, and see if I notice any discernible difference. I'm havin' fun now!

[High octane]

There you go. They look great.

I always have primered spoons ready and spay every color I use for future color choices on projects. Nothing better than seeing the real thing.

Yep, I think that I have been the problem all along. I also did a half hearted airbrushing test on an old hulk, using the spray bomb paints, and with some thinning, believe that may be a better way to go in the long run, but I'm still experimenting.

While many builders rely on the "spoon method" of testing paint colors, primers, clears, etc. and it is a great idea, I myself just "shoot from the hip" meaning from the can to the model and so far it seems to work for me.

An interesting approach, and exactly how I managed to botch three paint jobs in a row, although as I now believe, it was "operator error" all along, and no fault of the paints themselves, though the Testors cans do leave something to be desired.

Next up, I'll use the wet look clear, and see if I notice any discernible difference. I'm havin' fun now!

I did say that it works for me and I don't expect everyone else to do it my way either. So far I guess I've been lucky as I can't remember when the last time I had to strip a paint job to do over. I also don't seem to have any problems with Testors, Tamiya, Dupli-Color, Black Gold, or MCW cans either. Again, it may just be my luck?

[Roadrunner]

I did say that it works for me and I don't expect everyone else to do it my way either. So far I guess I've been lucky as I can't remember when the last time I had to strip a paint job to do over. I also don't seem to have any problems with Testors, Tamiya, Dupli-Color, Black Gold, or MCW cans either. Again, it may just be my luck?

Yep, I hear ya'. I jumped right into this car thing, just knowing everything would be a snap, but of course I had to make silly teething errors. From what I've seen on the web and at shows, perhaps 10% of all model car paint jobs look killer, the other 90%,... not so much. I'd really like mine to look like the 10%, if at all doable, and I believe it is.

[AzTom]

I normally do what High octane does but do test when the unknown to me is present. Like air brushing craft paints and paints I have not used before, which are not many after about thirty years.

The only issue I have had with Testors is the nozzle and that's only one more recent cans.  I have had some awesome paint jobs with the cheap bottle paints by adding hardener to it. 

I'm sure you're going to get there Kevin.

Edited August 5, 2015 by AzTom

[Roadrunner]

I normally do what High octane does does but do test when the unknown to me is present. Like air brushing craft paints and paints i have not used before, which are not many after about thirty years.

The only issue I have had with Testors is the nozzle and that's only one more recent cans.  I have had some awesome paint jobs with the cheap bottle paints by adding hardener to it. 

I'm sure you're going to get there Kevin.

I certainly hope so, Tom. I think that jumping in with both feet, and just assuming I could immediately get fabulous results, was a bit misguided and humbling. Ironically, my best job to date, was the very first car I started, my '70 Challenger T/A. I must have lucked out and accidentally did it more or less correctly, while avoiding (again quite by accident), the pratfalls that befell me subsequently.

[fseva]

Exactly how I managed to botch three paint jobs in a row, although as I now believe, it was "operator error" all along, and no fault of the paints themselves, though the Testors cans do leave something to be desired.

Hey... are we alone? I want to tell you a secret... that Black you're using... I ruined... not 1... but 2 bodies, using this paint for the first time... got real mad and sent Testors a nasty letter, saying that there has to be something wrong with the paint, because it all flowed into the depressions, and the metal pooled up there!

Anyroad, you sure said it right when you said that their cans leave something to be desired! I wish someone there would start to bring the company into the current century. They need a whole new aerosol method - something like Tamiya would be great. And along with that upgrade, they should have been working on the new acrylic enamels YEARS ago! I won't buy their current offerings because they stink up the whole house.

Well, you can get back to... whatever you were doing... I'm done whispering...

[Roadrunner]

This black does indeed seem to be very thin, and I think that could easily cause problems. I used it on the fenders of a '32 Vicky I was working on, and it went on (in light coats) beautifully, without a hitch, but then I really botched the clear, so into the "to strip pile" it went.

[fseva]

This black does indeed seem to be very thin, and I think that could easily cause problems. I used it on the fenders of a '32 Vicky I was working on, and it went on (in light coats) beautifully, without a hitch, but then I really botched the clear, so into the "to strip pile" it went.

Perhaps it's "thin" because there's so much metal in it, and the only way to get it through the nozzle is to really thin the paint!?

[crazyjim]

Have you tried Tamiya clear, Kevin?  I think it's TS13.  When I was using rattle cans, that was my choice for clear coats.  I believe Tamiya TS65 is a clear pearl and is also very nice.  Any Tamiya color seems to have a better spray pattern than Testors.

[Roadrunner]

Have you tried Tamiya clear, Kevin?  I think it's TS13.  When I was using rattle cans, that was my choice for clear coats.  I believe Tamiya TS65 is a clear pearl and is also very nice.  Any Tamiya color seems to have a better spray pattern than Testors.

No, I have not, Jim, but I'll certainly be trying lots of different stuff in the coming months/years. The Tamiya stuff does seem to have a good rep here, from all of what I've read so far.

Thanks,