Testors MM Custom Lacquer System, chipping/durability???

[StevenGuthmiller]

This is my first time using the Testors Custom Lacquer System and I thought by airbrushing it would lay down nicer.  I sprayed even coats over the whole body and didn't stay on one area longer then any other.  I may have been spraying a bit too far for some of the earlier mist coats but I did move in closer with the airbrush for the wet coats.  It did airbrush nice and thin which is good.  The texture isn't too bad.  I might try polishing it a bit with the Micromesh cloths before applying the clear.  

There's nothing wrong with that Mike, as long as it's not a metallic paint, give it a try. It won't hurt.

If need be you can always give it another coat of color before you clear coat.

Just make sure you don't use any liquid polishes before you clear it.

 

Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

Mike, there are no "solids" in custom lacquer that could give a factory-planned texture to the paint. I suspect that you may have applied too much paint and perhaps got some "orange peel" in the finish. If so, sand it out and try again. Any additional thoughts about this will be based on your explanation of the "texture" you're seeing...

 

You didn't read all of my comment, Ace... I said that there are no solids... that are there for making a factory-planned texture!

I read...and comprehend English... pretty well, actually, and exactly what you said, and exactly what I responded to, is highlighted in red above.

The words "could give" have an entirely different meaning than "are there for making". Eh wot?  

While there may not be any solids in custom lacquer that "are there for making a factory-planned texture" (the context here is a reference to additives in paint intended specifically to impart a texture), there most certainly ARE solids in custom lacquer that "could give" a factory-planned texture...and dry spray orange-peel is nothing more than solids that have failed to self-level because the liquid solvent carrier evaporated before they had a chance to do so. Wot wot?  

Edited January 31, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[crowe-t]

There's nothing wrong with that Mike, as long as it's not a metallic paint, give it a try. It won't hurt.

If need be you can always give it another coat of color before you clear coat.

Just make sure you don't use any liquid polishes before you clear it.

 

Steve

Steve, why can't a liquid polish be used before the clear coat?  

If the body is thoroughly cleaned after a liquid polish is used would that be OK?  

Edited January 31, 2016 by crowe-t

[StevenGuthmiller]

Steve, why can't a liquid polish be used before the clear coat?  

If the body is thoroughly cleaned after a liquid polish is used would that be OK?  

I just wouldn't chance it Mike.

Some polishes may contain ingredients that may cause the clear to not adhere properly causing fish eyes or other problems.

Some waxes can be tough to remove even with a good washing.

You would be much safer saving the liquid polishes until after all of the paint & clear coats have been applied.

There's really no need to get a "finish shine" on the body before clear coating anyway, unless you plan on leaving it & not clear coating.

You'll just be wasting polish & it will have to be repeated at the end regardless.

Use some polishing pads or even very fine sand paper to remove the texture, give it a thorough wash & then either shoot another color coat, or if it looks acceptable, your clear coats, & then polish after it's fully cured.

 

Steve

Edited January 31, 2016 by StevenGuthmiller

[Speedfreak]

Just spray it out of the rattle can next time, make life easier.   

[StevenGuthmiller]

Just spray it out of the rattle can next time, make life easier.   

I think I agree.

I've used some of the Testors lacquers in the past & they worked fine right from the can.

I don't think I'd waste the time decanting & airbrushing them.

I only use my airbrush for jobs where it's necessary to use it.

Like when I'm using colors only available for airbrush or when custom mixing colors.

 

Steve

[Speedfreak]

 

I think I agree.

I've used some of the Testors lacquers in the past & they worked fine right from the can.

I don't think I'd waste the time decanting & airbrushing them.

I only use my airbrush for jobs where it's necessary to use it.

Like when I'm using colors only available for airbrush or when custom mixing colors.

 

Steve

Steve, I used MM Custom Lacquer (Hemi Orange) recently to paint some dragster parts, sprayed right out of the can , (with no clear over them) , I just now ran my finger nail along the sharp edge of one of the flat parts rather firmly, nothing happened , part edge is fine. 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

I have no problem with the Model Master paints Gene, & they're just as durable as any other paint when they're cured.

My only point was that they seem to cure much more slowly than other lacquers & you need to be careful when you have parts that will be touching one and other during that curing time.

On at least a couple of occasions, I had builds with relatively tight fitting hoods that were finished within a couple of weeks of the last coat of paint going on.

A month or 2 later when I removed the hood, the paint had stuck together & a chip was pulled from either the hood or fender telling me that the paint was not fully cured when the assembly was done.

I should clarify & address this as an issue with the clear coat rather than the color as I've always used one of the Testors clears over the color coats, but the paint came up right down to the primer regardless.

I wouldn't shy away from using the MM paints, but I will be aware of this in the future should I use them.

 

Steve

[crowe-t]

Back in the '80's when I was in my teens I used to spray car bodies with enamel paint.  The enamel sprayed real smooth and glossy.  I never had a paint job with orange peel.  I used whatever cheap enamel I could find.  I did use Testors enamel a couple of times and it sprayed beautifully.

The Testors Custom Lacquer System seems to need a lot of time to cure and while this is happening it's not to durable.  Real auto lacquer might be a better alternative since it cures faster or enamel could be the way to go.

[StevenGuthmiller]

Back in the '80's when I was in my teens I used to spray car bodies with enamel paint.  The enamel sprayed real smooth and glossy.  I never had a paint job with orange peel.  I used whatever cheap enamel I could find.  I did use Testors enamel a couple of times and it sprayed beautifully.

The Testors Custom Lacquer System seems to need a lot of time to cure and while this is happening it's not to durable.  Real auto lacquer might be a better alternative since it cures faster or enamel could be the way to go.

Enamels dry & cure extremely slowly which is the reason why the do dry smooth & shiny with minimal coats.

I used to use a lot of enamels as well years ago, & while they do have some advantages, I feel the disadvantages far out weigh them.

Enamels spray much thicker hiding detail very easily.

A couple of coats of enamel will obscure a lot of detail very quickly.

They also have a much greater tendency to run & sag versus lacquer.

The main reason I stopped using them was because of the extremely slow curing.

Enamel can take months to fully cure.

I wouldn't go near an enamel paint job with polishing supplies for any less than 2 months!

Another reason I prefer automotive lacquer is availability of colors.

Particularly with model car paint suppliers such as "Model Car World".

Not only do they carry a huge range of colors, but the metallics are closer to scale for 1/25th kits.

 

Steve

Edited January 31, 2016 by StevenGuthmiller

[garagepunk66]

I have noticed the propensity for the Testors lacquers to be more easily chipped than other lacquers.

I've had examples where after the kit is finished and has sat for a few weeks, a tight fitting hood or the like would pull a chip from the adjacent fender edge or from the hood itself.

I attributed it to the fact that the Testors lacquers seem to cure much slower than other automotive type lacquers & if the parts are touching before completely cured, they can actually "stick" together & pull paint off one of the edges when separated.

I'm not entirely sure how long these lacquers take to cure, but I've had strange things happen to them weeks after application like cracking or dulling much later after a satisfactory polish was already achieved.

Testors lacquers are a very different paint than an automotive lacquer, (not as hot) so I've concluded that one of the properties of it is a much slower cure time.

It's probably not a bad idea to finish all coats, including clear, & then let it cure for a month or so before proceeding with any polishing or assembly of the body parts.

Just my observation of course.

 

Steve

could it be that in the case of the Testors lacquers, that the "lacquer" marketing term is being somewhat misconstrued, chemically speaking? enamels will "cure" thru their exposure to oxygen (IE oxidation), while acrylic lacquers, by their very nature, are dissolved acrylic plastics that "dry" thru solvent evaporation. that would be some crazy-slow thinner to take the better part of a month to dry!       

[StevenGuthmiller]

could it be that in the case of the Testors lacquers, that the "lacquer" marketing term is being somewhat misconstrued, chemically speaking? enamels will "cure" thru their exposure to oxygen (IE oxidation), while acrylic lacquers, by their very nature, are dissolved acrylic plastics that "dry" thru solvent evaporation. that would be some crazy-slow thinner to take the better part of a month to dry!       

I think you're probably right Dan.

I don't think that Testors lacquers are really lacquers in the true sense.

You can spray Testors clear lacquer over almost anything without issue.

I've sprayed the clear over enamel & acrylic paints with no damage to the under coats.

I've even sprayed Testors clear over bare plastic with no evidence of crazing.

You would never get away with that with an automotive lacquer.

 

Steve

[garagepunk66]

You can spray Testors clear lacquer over almost anything without issue.

I've sprayed the clear over enamel & acrylic paints with no damage to the under coats.

 

Steve

Yes, when i was in my auto body course in the mid '80's i was taught that any lacquer topcoat over the top of not-fully-cured enamel would buckle or curdle, so that is telling. Do the Tamiya Lacqers dry similarly then? I have no experience with either, as my last finish paint job on a model was done in the early 90's!

  

[StevenGuthmiller]

Yes, when i was in my auto body course in the mid '80's i was taught that any lacquer topcoat over the top of not-fully-cured enamel would buckle or curdle, so that is telling. Do the Tamiya Lacqers dry similarly then? I have no experience with either, as my last finish paint job on a model was done in the early 90's!

  

I have no experience with Tamiya paints or clear coats.

I use mostly MCW & Duplicolor paints & Duplicolor "Perfect Match" & "Paint Shop" clears.

I do use Testors clears for small jobs but not for bodies any more.

Had too many issues with them in the past.

But, I custom mix my engine colors & the like, utilizing flat enamels & I shoot Testors clears over those all of the time.

 

Steve