an idea

[花火]

this pic shows that if you want turn left u may put the right lever towards and pull back the left lever..

it's not like a bike, the two levers can move separately

just a stupid idea. I started this idea from an anime. I think a lot all those days and I think it should make some sense...

it just two levers like this

and using these to replace steering wheel.

 

I think this structure can make it easier when car racing in a rainy day or on high speed but lose control...and maybe we can put gas pedal on the levels or even the breaks! so that we free our feet and maybe it could help something when racing in a long race like Le Mans when a racer may have his muscle stiff...I just think like this..

 

just a thought. what you guys think about this idea

Edited March 18, 2016 by 花火

[Lunajammer]

It's more feasible with slower, lightweight cars. Some solar powered cars use lever steering to save space, however I'm not sure the whole axel pivoting would be stable. Fun to play with though. Reminds me of a push go-cart I built as a kid.

[花火]

It's more feasible with slower, lightweight cars. Some solar powered cars use lever steering to save space, however I'm not sure the whole axel pivoting would be stable. Fun to play with though. Reminds me of a push go-cart I built as a kid.

yes Mike I believe that the worst problem is the stability.

[花火]

I also thought about this.

don't know if this can work or not.

[lysleder]

Front wheels leaning over when turning? I guess it could be made to work, but I see more headaches than benefits with such a system. Usually you want the wheels to stay upright to maintain a large contact patch. More rubber on the road means more grip. Grip is a good thing. If you lean a conventional car tire you will ride on one shoulder while lifting the other and that way reduce the area of rubber-to-road contact. You don't want to do that. For this idea to work you will need to use motorcycle style tires, which has a curved profile. This allows for more rubber on the road while leaning over, but it also means that you will never have the full with of the tire onto the road at any given time. I guess the only benefit from using leaning wheels would be less stress on the tire/rim connection. It would be unnecessarily complicated though.  In the instances where the tire might come off the rim due to excessive force, it is common practice to bolt the tire to the rim to keep it in place.

[Ace-Garageguy]

New ideas should be encouraged, but it's good to have some background in what's already been done in any given field, and why it works, before trying to modify existing technology.

I have considerable experience in the field, and lyseder is correct in his assertion that modern suspension design, in general, strives to maintain the wheels at a 90 degree angle to the pavement in order to maximize the tire contact-patch at any given time.

Independent suspension control arms are specifically designed to force the tire to lean relative to the vehicle in order to achieve this; the effect is that as the vehicle leans away from the apex of a turn due to lateral weight-transfer, the geometry of the control arms forces the outside (most heavily-loaded) wheel to remain perpendicular to the pavement in order to maximize tire tread contact with the road surface.

Suspension design is a fascinating subject if you enjoy applied math and geometry, and has come a long way since the advent of computer-modeling. What we used to have to plot with strings, cardboard cutouts and thumbtacks can now be modeled virtually instantly in a variety of computer environments, and modifications can be tried and proven or rejected just as quickly.

Here's a fairly good basic overview of suspension development over the years:      http://www.automotivearticles.com/printer_Suspension_Design_Types_of_Suspensions.shtml

Edited March 23, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[花火]

Front wheels leaning over when turning? I guess it could be made to work, but I see more headaches than benefits with such a system. Usually you want the wheels to stay upright to maintain a large contact patch. More rubber on the road means more grip. Grip is a good thing. If you lean a conventional car tire you will ride on one shoulder while lifting the other and that way reduce the area of rubber-to-road contact. You don't want to do that. For this idea to work you will need to use motorcycle style tires, which has a curved profile. This allows for more rubber on the road while leaning over, but it also means that you will never have the full with of the tire onto the road at any given time. I guess the only benefit from using leaning wheels would be less stress on the tire/rim connection. It would be unnecessarily complicated though.  In the instances where the tire might come off the rim due to excessive force, it is common practice to bolt the tire to the rim to keep it in place.

thanks for replay, O I also be told that the front break of a F1 car is kind of really important. 

I really didn't think much about the patch..and yes with a motorcycle tires it seems impossible

New ideas should be encouraged, but it's good to have some background in what's already been done in any given field, and why it works, before trying to modify existing technology.

I have considerable experience in the field, and lyseder is correct in his assertion that modern suspension design, in general, strives to maintain the wheels at a 90 degree angle to the pavement in order to maximize the tire contact-patch at any given time.

Independent suspension control arms are specifically designed to force the tire to lean relative to the vehicle in order to achieve this; the effect is that as the vehicle leans away from the apex of a turn due to lateral weight-transfer, the geometry of the control arms forces the outside (most heavily-loaded) wheel to remain perpendicular to the pavement in order to maximize tire tread contact with the road surface.

Suspension design is a fascinating subject if you enjoy applied math and geometry, and has come a long way since the advent of computer-modeling. What we used to have to plot with strings, cardboard cutouts and thumbtacks can now be modeled virtually instantly in a variety of computer environments, and modifications can be tried and proven or rejected just as quickly.

Here's a fairly good basic overview of suspension development over the years:      http://www.automotivearticles.com/printer_Suspension_Design_Types_of_Suspensions.shtml

Thanks to Bill, I was thought that the strength should be a big problem. And thanks for the article of the suspension development.

Right after I did some research and I found that MercedesBenz already had something with this idea..if it can be call an idea

like this

 

looks like much more complicated than I thought and for this pic, I cannot make sure if this car has rare wheels??But it can't be without rear wheel... so it kind of wired...

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by 花火

[Harry P.]

What would the benefit of a lever steering system be over a traditional steering wheel?  And why two independently-movable levers? You can only steer in one direction at any given time; I don't see how two independently-operable steering levers could possibly work, or why they would be needed.

[Ace-Garageguy]

...looks like much more complicated than I thought and for this pic, I cannot make sure if this car has rare wheels??But it can't be without rear wheel... so it kind of wired...

The 1997 Mercedes F300 concept car pictured above is a three-wheeler that leans like a motorcycle and uses a parallelogram-style front suspension to allow the front wheels to lean the same amount as the single rear wheel. You'll notice the tires have rounded treads like motorcycle tires, and this tire design is the ONLY design that will work with leaning suspension. It's fine for a light little commuter / grocery-getter, but not well suited to optimum cornering force.

    

It's an interesting design, and it uses suspension very similar to what I originated for my own company's experimental 3-wheeled vehicle many years earlier (first designed in 1985). Here's some info about that, if you're interested.     http://contest.techbriefs.com/2010/entries/transportation/871

You might also be interested to know that in 1995 or '96, we looked at a front-axle steering system somewhat similar to your idea at the top of the thread (though it only had one steering input) which used a pivoting beam axle. It was invented by a fella in England, and promised very simple, inexpensive production and low unsprung weight. Scale-model simulations didn't seem to offer the kind of handling precision I was after, so we abandoned further development.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[花火]

What would the benefit of a lever steering system be over a traditional steering wheel?  And why two independently-movable levers? You can only steer in one direction at any given time; I don't see how two independently-operable steering levers could possibly work, or why they would be needed.

Just some ideas I was always thought of... very likely could be non-sense

[花火]

The 1997 Mercedes F300 concept car pictured above is a three-wheeler that leans like a motorcycle and uses a parallelogram-style front suspension to allow the front wheels to lean the same amount as the single rear wheel. You'll notice the tires have rounded treads like motorcycle tires, and this tire design is the ONLY design that will work with leaning suspension. It's fine for a light little commuter / grocery-getter, but not well suited to optimum cornering force.

    

It's an interesting design, and it uses suspension very similar to what I originated for my own company's experimental 3-wheeled vehicle many years earlier (first designed in 1985). Here's some info about that, if you're interested.     http://contest.techbriefs.com/2010/entries/transportation/871

You might also be interested to know that in 1995 or '96, we looked at a front-axle steering system somewhat similar to your idea at the top of the thread (though it only had one steering input) which used a pivoting beam axle. It was invented by a fella in England, and promised very simple, inexpensive production and low unsprung weight. Scale-model simulations didn't seem to offer the kind of handling precision I was after, so we abandoned further development.

thank you very much Bill.

[Harry P.]

Just some ideas I was always thought of... very likely could be non-sense

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea... just wondering what you see as the benefit, because honestly, I can't see any.

[花火]

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea... just wondering what you see as the benefit, because honestly, I can't see any.

yeah i konw so i called it as a 'stupid' idea. just a thought. you know... boring life

[Ace-Garageguy]

yeah i konw so i called it as a 'stupid' idea. just a thought. you know... boring life

Don't be hard on yourself. If you're really interested in suspension design, there are several good introductory books on the subject, and once you understand the basics, the math can be handled by a variety of software applications, some available online.

Who knows...if you were to study it, you might come up with something really revolutionary that no one else has thought of yet.

[TomZ]

Not sure if this is entirely applicable to this discussion, but Henry Ford's "999" race car had tiller steering. With no mechanical advantage of any kind, it required massive strength to control it. One reason why Barney Oldfield became famous driving this car was because he was one of the few strong enough (and brave enough) to drive it.

 

[花火]

Don't be hard on yourself. If you're really interested in suspension design, there are several good introductory books on the subject, and once you understand the basics, the math can be handled by a variety of software applications, some available online.

Who knows...if you were to study it, you might come up with something really revolutionary that no one else has thought of yet.

again, thank you very much sir!

[花火]

Not sure if this is entirely applicable to this discussion, but Henry Ford's "999" race car had tiller steering. With no mechanical advantage of any kind, it required massive strength to control it. One reason why Barney Oldfield became famous driving this car was because he was one of the few strong enough (and brave enough) to drive it.

 

Thanks Tom. I'll go yahoo picture the ford's 999