Wire wheels revisited

[Aaronw]

I found this thread, and within it there are links to two others describing how to make wire spoke wheels.

 

 

I have questions, primarily about making a jig. I would love to pick the brain of somebody familiar with making their own wire wheels.

 

I want to try making Model T wheels which are far less complex (30 spoke) than those in the tutorials, but there is no discussion about aligning spokes of different numbers than the examples. Also would love to get a better look at how the ends of the spokes are captured by the hub and rim.  

 

Also on the off chance maybe someone has a 1-1 Model T with wire wheels, what diameter wire was used, it looks fairly stout, maybe 3/16" or 1/4".

Edited November 26, 2018 by Aaronw

[Ace-Garageguy]

If you haven't already, read through this tutorial again.

I find he pretty much covers all the points. 

Laying out jigs for any number of spokes is simply a matter of counting (the inner and outer numbers are often different) and dividing that number into the 360 degrees of a circle.

That will tell you how many degrees of separation you'll need between spokes, to be laid out carefully with a protractor.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

AND...1/4" for the spoke diameter should be fine. I'm almost certain that's correct for a T. It is for several other early (real) cars I've had to make spokes for when none were available.

[Aaronw]

Yes, I read through both of the posts within the post I linked to. I think you are confirming what I got from it, which is basically you need a jig for each number of spokes unless it is a clean division (24 spokes could be made on a 72 spoke jig by only using every 3rd space, 36 by skipping every other). The T seems to have an added complexity as the outer has 10 opposing spokes (straight across), while the inner has 20 spokes which sort of form an X.

I gather the spoke ends either need to sandwich between two pieces or be well secured and then glued.   

0.1" music wire would be about 1/4" in 1/24, that is nice and stiff so should make a sturdy wheel even if it might be a bit tough to work with.

 

Any idea how well steel wire solders to brass? I'm thinking that might be a better solution than CA or epoxy. I guess I could use brass wire if steel won't solder well, but music wire seems less likely to get bent.

Thanks

[Ace-Garageguy]

Yeah, one of the reasons I haven't gone far with this is because the wires ultimately get captured between two plastic rims. I actually went so far as to buy a miniature (vintage) lathe to make clean, round rims on, but haven't had the time to work with it much.

The straight-in spokes on the T wheel outer ring is also a problem.

BUT...I think you'll find monofilament to be plenty strong once the entire wheel is assembled. The forces acting on it are identical to those acting on real wires, just much much smaller.

Even building up individual spoke wheels in 1/8 scale using the Pocher jigs can be a hair-puller, but Pico Elgin has managed to do it in 1/24 scale using printed rims that have .010" holes for the spokes. And they look really real.

[Aaronw]

So does the monofilliment wrap the hub then? That was something I couldn't quite understand from the posts. I do have a small lathe and mill available, so I was contemplating brass or aluminum for the rim and hub, brass would offer soldering as an option. This of course assumes my meager skills are up to the task. 

[Art Anderson]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:25 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

AND...1/4" for the spoke diameter should be fine. I'm almost certain that's correct for a T. It is for several other early (real) cars I've had to make spokes for when none were available.

If you are talking about the '26-'27 welded steel spoke wheels, the spokes are 1/4" thick.

Art

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 hours ago, Art Anderson said:

If you are talking about the '26-'27 welded steel spoke wheels, the spokes are 1/4" thick.

Art

Thanks for the confirmation, Art.  

[Flat32]

When I made a wire spoked wheel with actual wire I 3D printed the rim and hub connected together with kid of a sprue that gets removed after the spokes are in. I printed a drill jig to do a set of four spoke holes and indexed the jig around the wheel.  Printed another jig for guiding in the spokes. Got tired of the drill jig and managed to print the rim and hub with spoke holes good enough to eliminate drilling step.  Wheel is 16" Kelsey Hayes type  with 40 spokes but without bent spokes. Sprue connector had five arms that fit into the jigs which had ten mating slots.

Sounds complicated, but all designed on computer and then printed so simple for me to make. Wouldn't want to do it for a living though.

[Ace-Garageguy]

^^^   Yes, Pico Elgin, who I mentioned above (and who's a member of my local club) 3D-prints rims with the spoke holes integral. They may (or may shortly) be available through Shapeways.