Working (not posable) Steering

[torinobradley]

I am interested in trying to make a working steering box. I have seen one or two in 1/24-1/25th scale but can't find any how-to's or such. I have a rough idea of how to do it but would love to see how others have made it work.

Now, I am not talking about a little hook on the steering shaft that goes into a little groove on the tie rod and moves the wheels a few millimeters one way or the other... I want gears! I want to turn the wheel two or three times to the lock and have the wheels aiming in the right direction.

I got a bunch of ideas burning the few braincells I have left from all that spray-painting but want to see others that have done it and, more importantly, how they did it. I mean, it's nice to see a pic of a model that has working steering but without seeing how they did it, all you can say is "nifty!"... right?

Can anyone offer help or suggestions?

[Harry P.]

I've never seen working steering through an actual geared steering box in 1/24 or 1/25 scale. I suppose it could be done, but the parts would have to be so tiny, and the tolerances so precise, that it seems almost an impossible task at such a small scale.

You would have to be some kind of talented modeler to fabricate an operating, in-scale steering box and linkage. You'd need a precision milling machine and lathe, at least, plus a set of tiny bevel gears for the steering box (with the correct number of teeth on them to give you a realistic "lock to lock" steering action. Then you'd have to machine the steering box housing itself, install the gears, fabricate a cover, create all the moveable joints, tie rods, idler arm, etc. Sounds like a HUGE job...

[RyanSilva]

Scavenge some watch parts. Use mechanical watches, go to flea markets, ebay (bit pricey)

There is some of the smallest gears ever made..located in mechanical watches.

[Art Anderson]

I am interested in trying to make a working steering box. I have seen one or two in 1/24-1/25th scale but can't find any how-to's or such. I have a rough idea of how to do it but would love to see how others have made it work.

Now, I am not talking about a little hook on the steering shaft that goes into a little groove on the tie rod and moves the wheels a few millimeters one way or the other... I want gears! I want to turn the wheel two or three times to the lock and have the wheels aiming in the right direction.

I got a bunch of ideas burning the few braincells I have left from all that spray-painting but want to see others that have done it and, more importantly, how they did it. I mean, it's nice to see a pic of a model that has working steering but without seeing how they did it, all you can say is "nifty!"... right?

Can anyone offer help or suggestions?

I've seen working steering gear done using the winding/setting stem and gears from a wristwatch (the setting stem of a watch uses a worm gear setup!) encased in a housing made from brass tubing) done on a 25th scale antique race car model years ago--very convincing indeed!

Art

[torinobradley]

I was looking at the watch gears I have but I don't have a worm gear. I was thinking of the little hex key locking screws that go in the holes for towel racks and such. I will have to see just how small they get. Then, maybe a watch gear or two cut to the right shape and glued/soldered to the steering shaft. Now, I will look for more watches so I can sacrafice them to the Gods of Scale, especially winding type ones. Thanks for the tips!

[MrObsessive]

I tried this on my '57 Corvette years ago, and while it DID work-----the problem was keeping the gears meshed without skipping. I eventually gave up on the idea as the box eventually quit working. The steering turned like the 1:1 with the correct turns lock to lock, but this was the first time I tried it and the gear fit was too sloppy to keep working.

Those that saw this while it was a WIP can vouch for the steering box working.

I did use watch gears----mostly from a bunch of gears I got off eBay, and yes, they can be pricey!

A shop manual will help greatly to give you a guide as to how the box is shaped, and also how the tie rod ends will go, pitman arm, etc.

As others have said.........tiny gears are the way to go, but I gotta warn ya----------it's VERY time consuming to get everything to mesh correctly and to make the steering gear box small enough in scale for the model you're working on.

Here's a pic albeit a bit small, of the steering gear box when the 'Vette was still in many pieces...........Sorry I don't have any in progress pics during building the steering box-------The pic was taken by a club member as this was long before I got a digital camera, and the pic was scanned.

[MrObsessive]

I was looking at the watch gears I have but I don't have a worm gear. I was thinking of the little hex key locking screws that go in the holes for towel racks and such. I will have to see just how small they get. Then, maybe a watch gear or two cut to the right shape and glued/soldered to the steering shaft. Now, I will look for more watches so I can sacrafice them to the Gods of Scale, especially winding type ones. Thanks for the tips!

IIRC, I soldered a tiny brass screw onto a brass shaft for a worm gear..........the watch gear was soldered to the pitman arm. The whole works was "sandwiched" in a scratchbuilt plastic gear box using a '57 Corvette assembly manual. Details are a little fuzzy now how I did this as this was back in 2001.

[Art Anderson]

IIRC, I soldered a tiny brass screw onto a brass shaft for a worm gear..........the watch gear was soldered to the pitman arm. The whole works was "sandwiched" in a scratchbuilt plastic gear box using a '57 Corvette assembly manual. Details are a little fuzzy now how I did this as this was back in 2001.

Bill,

My friend, Bob Pierce, of Griffith IN, used brass tubing rather than plastic tubing to make the steering box itself--he said (I've not tried this) that once he had the tubing (come to think of it, I believe he used a piece of rectangular brass tube to hold the sector gear) filed to the correct spacing, he had no problems with the gears maintaining their mesh. Bob did all this before having a miniature lathe or mill as well.

Art

[84vanagon]

If you have a local slot car track that carries any HO scale stuff you might check out the the Aurora A/FX and Thunderjet parts. If not AutoWorld carries them.

Many years ago Ken Hamilton built a T-bucket that SAE did a write up on that had many working features. I can't recall what Ken used for the working steering. I saw the T in person in the late 80's- early 90's at a show in Dallas and it was incredible.

Ken frequents another model site and probably can steer (pun intended) you in the right direction.

Edited September 5, 2008 by 84vanagon

[Jairus]

Why?

Really, I have to ask.... why?

Yes, I did working steering both with a box and a rack (not finished incidentally) and the results were that I spent more of my time making the stupid thing WORK than I did making the rest of the car LOOK correct.

Ultimately it comes down to what do YOU want out of of this model?

Do you want working steering? Then build it for YOU.

Do you want to set viewers on their collective ears? Then build a knock-down drag-out super painted and detailed model car that they can see, but not have to touch to make work.

Working steering is not something that the average viewer will EVER be able to play with. Maybe a few judges and a one or two friends... but the rest will have to take your word for it that it really works. Kind of like filling the scale fuel tank with real gasoline..... a little silly!

Frankly, I feel working features are a dead end and better time could be spent making the weathering, paint and detailing more realistic rather than making working features in a scale that is just too small for such clearances and realism.

[torinobradley]

You all make valid points...

I guess... It doesn't have to work as long as it looks like it works...

The point about the time spent certainly hit home (pun intended) as demands on my time are sometimes great, which really cuts into my modeling time.

While I admire and respect all the operating features on the works of art some of these guys put out, it's just not in the time budget for my builds... I will just collect all the parts to do it for when I retire and have the time to spend on elevating my models to the next level...

[MrObsessive]

Do you want to set viewers on their collective ears? Then build a knock-down drag-out super painted and detailed model car that they can see, but not have to touch to make work.

Frankly, I feel working features are a dead end and better time could be spent making the weathering, paint and detailing more realistic rather than making working features in a scale that is just too small for such clearances and realism.

They played with my windows at Toledo and GSL Jairus!

.................And they're still working after all these years!

My philosophy when it comes to working features is to make a model that looks like any other normal model sitting there............nice paint and detailing------but then hit 'em with the "gotcha" factor when it has all the working stuff that wouldn't be known.

And it's got to be in scale!

But 'tis true that it can become cumbersome along the way which is why I don't get much into super working detail as in previous years. Like you said, as much if not more (depends on the model and builder) impact can be made by a very nicely finished model with no obvious flaws.

Proof positive of this is anything built by Juha Airio------he does not have opening doors or working features that I've seen, but his models are super squeaky clean, even though a lot of them are heavily modified especially when it's something that's never been done before!

[Jairus]

Bill, I have to admit that I still work on ideas for roll down windows. THAT is visual and can be seen by the viewer.... along with a folding top for the convertible. Things visible are very important because this hobby is all about visible! A correct firing order on an obscure French racing car is just NOT something that the average viewer will understand.

The thing I want to build is a remote control that opens the doors and rolls down the windows with-out touching the car! Now that would be something....

Edited September 9, 2008 by Jairus

[SteveG]

Bill, I have to admit that I still work on ideas for roll down windows. THAT is visual and can be seen by the viewer.... along with a folding top for the convertible. Things visible are very important because this hobby is all about visible! A correct firing order on an obscure French racing car is just NOT something that the average viewer will understand.

The thing I want to build is a remote control that opens the doors and rolls down the windows with-out touching the car! Now that would be something....

If anyone remembers those MicroSizers R/C cars from a few years back, they had the tiniest motors in them that were removable. I think Radio shack sold them as Zipzaps or something like that too. I thought they would be perfect to make 1/25th scale power window motors. with four frequencies you could have four remote control windows.

I never did figure out how to make working 1/25th scale window switches though ....

-Steve

[MrObsessive]

Bill, I have to admit that I still work on ideas for roll down windows. THAT is visual and can be seen by the viewer.... along with a folding top for the convertible. Things visible are very important because this hobby is all about visible! A correct firing order on an obscure French racing car is just NOT something that the average viewer will understand.

The thing I want to build is a remote control that opens the doors and rolls down the windows with-out touching the car! Now that would be something....

If anyone remembers those MicroSizers R/C cars from a few years back, they had the tiniest motors in them that were removable. I think Radio shack sold them as Zipzaps or something like that too. I thought they would be perfect to make 1/25th scale power window motors. with four frequencies you could have four remote control windows.

I never did figure out how to make working 1/25th scale window switches though ....

-Steve

Hmmmm.................You two have just given me a brainstorm! I've made toggle switches in 1/25.........................

[Jairus]

Hmmmm.................You two have just given me a brainstorm! I've made toggle switches in 1/25.........................

GIT OUT!

But what about our idea of radio control with a cheap 20 buck Radio shack transmitter?

[MrObsessive]

But what about our idea of radio control with a cheap 20 buck Radio shack transmitter?

I remember those Zip-Zaps from a few years ago, and IIRC, our LHS sold the motors separately. He probably still does, but the size of the motor may be more suited for the thickness of a 1/16 scale door and not 1/25.

I'm thinking along the lines of AMT's 1/16 scale stuff out of the '70's-------'55-'57 T-Bird, '55-'57 Chevy, and the 1964½ Mustang.

You'd need room for the motor itself, as well as the window regulator and tracks..............might be a real tight squeeze for 1/25.

My brainstorm was how to use a remote control without it looking like one...............but I don't wanna give it away yet!

[Jairus]

How'z about a convertible.... with the motor and gears in the trunk. Batteries too for that matter. Then a flex shaft running forward to run all four windows up at the same time?

Of course the doors don't open... but on a convertible you really don't need it. Same motor could run the top up and down as well.

One click on the remote and everything buttons up with no need to touch the model. Frankly, opening doors would only complicate the process and weaken the structure.

Now that would be visually exciting and much better than working steering!

[Olle F]

How'z about a convertible.... with the motor and gears in the trunk. Batteries too for that matter. Then a flex shaft running forward to run all four windows up at the same time?

Or how about a Ford Skyliner, with working top? BTW, and back to topic: I built a few Hubley metal kits many years ago and if I remember correctly, one of them came with a working steering box. Or am I totally mistaken?

[Jairus]

Quite a few of them featured working steering... but not actually with a steering box. (Unless my addled brain missed it....)

At any rate, most were simply a cross rod with a steering shaft bent into an "L" shape that connected and moved the cross rod back and forth. The steering wheel only had to move a 1/4 turn left and to the right to move the wheels left and right. It is very toy like and not realistic at all. A lot of the die casters are still doing the same thing today and I believe Trumpeter did it with the Pontiac kit in plastic.

Most steering wheels in 1:1 cars today take 4 or 5 rotations to move the wheels from lock to lock. This is with power steering. Manual steering cars have higher ratios.

I believe the original question was about making a realistic steering system. If you were modeling a Corvair.... might not be a big problem (long as you didn't cut open the trunk lid).

But on a modern front engine model the steering system is very visible and the parts, really itty-bitty when converted to 1:25th!

Might be easier to model on a Mack Truck....

Edited September 10, 2008 by Jairus

[Olle F]

Quite a few of them featured working steering... but not actually with a steering box. (Unless my addled brain missed it....)

At any rate, most were simply a cross rod with a steering shaft bent into an "L" shape that connected and moved the cross rod back and forth. The steering wheel only had to move a 1/4 turn left and to the right to move the wheels left and right. It is very toy like and not realistic at all. A lot of the die casters are still doing the same thing today and I believe Trumpeter did it with the Pontiac kit in plastic.

I remember that it was made that way on the Model A I built, but there was another one (possibly a Packard) that had some other type of arrangement. But it has been about 30 years since I built these kits and I don't have them anymore, so I'm really not sure.