Open VS. Closed

[Johnnycrash]

So, what do you prefer?? Do you like to have the grille slots open, so you can see the innerards?? Or do you leave them closed, and just add the depth with paint and a wash??

I always find it a little "flat" when the grille is closed. Sometimes you need to replace all the grille with PE or some strip plastic to better replicate the grille. But I think it makes for a more realistic look. Really ads depth to the look, because in the real deal, you can see inbehind it. Not always much to look at, a rad, a rad support, maybe a few wires and lamp buckets...

Would you pay more (or less) for one version or the other?? I mean, if there were replacement grilles for a car/truck/rig/whatever, and there were two versions, one with open grille, and one with closed grille, and the closed grille was cheaper than the open grille, which would you buy?? (wow, what a long sentence).

Thoughts??

After thought: What about open lamp buckets with a clear lens to cover it?? Adds the same depth I talked about above. Or, closed, solid style headlight??

Edited September 5, 2008 by Johnnycrash

[HotRodaSaurus]

That sounds like quite a complex moulding process to seperate the bars on say a 34 grill in 1/25.

Usually due to a lack of the old £$ I make do with kit parts and would attempt to open it up by scaping the back off till the bars were exposed.

I would go with painted, though I have seen photo etched etc and the look is impresive.

J

[Harry P.]

The problem is, real grilles are three-dimensional. The slats or bars or grillwork or whatever you want to call it are not flat, they have dimension. So if you replace a tubular grill, for instance, with a PE piece, you're solving one problem and creating another. Yeah, now the slots between the bars are open, but the bars themselves, being a PE piece, are flat. Not very realistic, is it?

The best (and easiest) way to get that scale grille looking good is with a simple black wash. Sometimes, depending on which make you're talking about, the grille can be opened by carefully removing material from behind until the openings are actually "open", but this technique only works in certain cases, where the backside of the grille is relatively flat and where there's enough material there in the first place to allow for removing a part of it from behind. PE pieces, being flat (2-dimensional) usually look "fake" on a model... unless you're talking about a material that would be flat on the real car, like mesh, for example. But PE replacing 3-dimensional grilles? Not so good...

[Jello]

It would be great to have open grilles on the cars & trucks but some kits just make that impossible without doing serious damage! From my experience, open grilles really get the job done! Theres nothing better detail wise. Hood latch detail would be cool too.

As for the headlight area, the Revell '58 Impala kit really takes the prize! Note the separate parts and one of the best set-ups I have ever seen on a model car kit and as a former owner of a '58 Impala in high school, its right on to the real thing!

I suspect in the future of model car kits, we will see more details due to better technology and of course, higher prices which is fine with me.

~ Jeff

[Johnnycrash]

Yeah, not every kit grille lends it's self to being opened up. The '65 Impala grille works nice, as does the '99 Chevy CK grille. The old Monogram '57 Chevy, not so much. But, with that one, the grille was just a flat piece of stamped metal. So a PE piece is PERFECT!!! And that's what I am doing there. Much grinding and chopping on the kit part is needed to open it up for the PE part. Ugh. One of the issues with kit parts is that they need to be mastered in such away as to be injection molded. Us resin guys don't have those same issues.

Some detail at scale can be done with flat pieces, some cannot. PE, if done right, for the right kit, can look really cool. But if the grille bars need to be round, or have other detail that can not be done with flat stock, then it ain't worth the trouble. A good paint job, and a fine wash will look WAY better. But, on the other tenticle, if the grille bars can be made to have the detail needed, then an open grille looks SO much better.

As for the headlights, I don't have the '58 Impala kit. And I don't know why... Umm. Anyways. I think the depth is needed there for sure. I was thinking that a gloss headlight surface with a decal representing the hatch patern (that's on the inside), and then a good gloss clear coat might do the same thing?? But I guess it might look like the "headlights" on funny and stock cars. The depth comes from "seeing" the bucket and the lamp inside itself. And all those reflections. While marker lights tend to be less transparent, you can get away with a good paint colour, or a clear over chrome/silver/bmf.

The larger scale guy's can add much more detail that way, as the parts aren't so small. But in 1/24(25), it's a another deal.

[MrObsessive]

I'd prefer 'em open, but as Harry said, depends on the car and the grille shape.

I opened up the grille not long ago on an '05 'Vette which wasn't too hard...........just a variable speed Dremel, a riffler file, and a good #11 Exacto Blade.

Tamiya might be one of the best kit makers when it comes to opening up grilles and vents.............I've seen stuff so cleanly molded from them that it's amazing!

But then as they say...............you get what you pay for!

[Eshaver]

John, I take each kit as a project unto itself. Take for example the 1957 Chevrolet Cameo from A M T . I bought a Jimmy Flintstone body from the local Hobby shop where I live. The body begged me to take the extra time to sand the back of that grille and put it on the truck! I cant help it guys, blame it on Chuck Jordan, he had amajor hand in designing the 1955-57 trucks for G M then. Ed Shaver

[Art Anderson]

And, all this time I thought model car grilles were molded closed to keep bugs out of the radiators?

Art

[CAL]

So, what do you prefer?? Do you like to have the grille slots open, so you can see the innerards?? Or do you leave them closed, and just add the depth with paint and a wash??

I always find it a little "flat" when the grille is closed. Sometimes you need to replace all the grille with PE or some strip plastic to better replicate the grille. But I think it makes for a more realistic look. Really ads depth to the look, because in the real deal, you can see inbehind it. Not always much to look at, a rad, a rad support, maybe a few wires and lamp buckets...

Would you pay more (or less) for one version or the other?? I mean, if there were replacement grilles for a car/truck/rig/whatever, and there were two versions, one with open grille, and one with closed grille, and the closed grille was cheaper than the open grille, which would you buy?? (wow, what a long sentence).

Thoughts??

After thought: What about open lamp buckets with a clear lens to cover it?? Adds the same depth I talked about above. Or, closed, solid style headlight??

I like them open when possible. Oh hands down, I'd pay a little extra for an open grill.

I hate solid HL.

[62SS]

Some I open up, Some I just paint. It really depends on the car. When I'm working with an older kit I really dont want to take a chance at ruining a grille that I probably wont be able to replace.

Ed

[Jello]

And, all this time I thought model car grilles were molded closed to keep bugs out of the radiators?

Art

Good one Art!

~ Jeff

[HotRodaSaurus]

I would go with painted, though I have seen photo etched etc and the look is impresive.

J

I should have added that it is the really thin bars that (32 34 36 Ford grills etc) look ok PE, othher types of grill can look too flat.

Has anyone made a kit of parts for items like the 1959 or 60 Cadillac? this would be a challenge with those flat horizontal and vertical slats(the easy bit) and then the bullets to hold it all together! Ill count em one day.

John

Edited September 6, 2008 by HotRodaSaurus

[Jello]

As far as getting that correct 3-D look, I would suggest the flat pieces be PE or screen and the rounder parts be casted either in resin or cast metal. Like the real factory grilles, most come in 2 or 3 or more parts separate such as the '58 Impala grilles/bumpers. Kit grilles with bumpers molded in always usually are 1-pc which looks unrealistic cause most grilles/bumpers usually have 2-3 shades of different chrome or aluminum such as the '57 Chevys including the side trims. Even in plastic kits, I would rather have several parts of a grille & bumper than a 1-pc part. Same goes for the rear taillight & bumpers.

Theres a company that makes headlight/light lens for model trains that is very realistic and has that real looking deep bulb look and they also look great on any scale model cars..I believe its called something like MV lens? I last saw an ad in a Model Railroader magazine about them. They have a large chart of thousands of different sizes & colors as will as clear.

~ Jeff

[Dragon7665]

And, all this time I thought model car grilles were molded closed to keep bugs out of the radiators?

Art

Really I always thought it was done to cut down the warm up time the engine needs in the winter Would be Kool to have proper Scale Grilles though John!

Edited September 7, 2008 by Dragon7665

[MikeMc]

I like to open it up and use mesh if it looks right....made a diff on the Magnum.....

and I left this vette open.....

[Johnnycrash]

So, open if it can be done in away that preserves the 3D elements of the real deal. Makes sense. A flat version of a 3d object is just a drawing. And real light buckects with clear textured lens??

BTW, some nice work there. I spend all of my time making masters and casting. Well, and PLANNING builds. Maybe I'll get something done this fall. I need to do 8 builds for my dad (2x cars, 5x trucks, and a pontoon boat). I am making progress... Slowly.

[RodBurNeR]

i don't like to wash like i did a couple years ago. the black washes dull all the little bars or whatnot in the grille that SHOULD be shiny. i use an archival ink pen that actually has a tip small enough to fit between the bars on even a '32 ford! the one i use is black of course, but they come in a bunch of colors and are water based, easy to wipe off if you make a mistake. they run about $5 i think.

mine has a 0.20 line width. 005. check the link and buy you some! art stores carry them.

http://www.sakuraofamerica.com/Pen-Archival

Hosted on Fotki

Edited September 8, 2008 by awbcrazy

[raisin27]

I have recently started opening up grills using the method harrypri described. I think it does add quite a bit to the "look" of the model. Its not practical on every build but I think I will be doing this more and more and on more intricate pieces as my skills improve.

Raisin

[Johnnycrash]

awbcrazy - I know what you mean about the washes dulling thing down. I usually try and do a little rubbing and buffing to get the shine back. And I have several of the fineline pens has well. Mine are by Staedtler. They are great for those grilles. I also find they work great on body panel lines, door handles, and such.

raisin27 - Nice work there. That '55 open grille just pops doesn't it?? The open grilles takes away the toy like quality. And what is the lower image of?? It looks familiar, but I can't place it right now. It, of course, looks great opened up.

[MrObsessive]

And what is the lower image of?? It looks familiar, but I can't place it right now. It, of course, looks great opened up.

It looks like a grille from a '57 Ford.

[raisin27]

raisin27 - Nice work there. That '55 open grille just pops doesn't it?? The open grilles takes away the toy like quality. And what is the lower image of?? It looks familiar, but I can't place it right now. It, of course, looks great opened up.

Thanks, and Mr Obsessive is correct the lower pic a 57 Ford grill.

I notice you are from Ontario, will you be going to the Group25 show in Toronto?

Raisin

[Johnnycrash]

In Ontario yes. But NORHERN Ontario. T.O. is a 9 hour drive from here. So, to answer your question, no, I will not be going. I hope to get out to more (any) shows next year.

[abedooley]

I beleive that opening up a grill is one of the best things you can do. Just seems that that is the first thing that makes it look custom.... Heres how I've done my Challenger.....