What is Sacred is, uh, Sacred

[FloridaBoy]

Here is the old geezer, again, guys,

The subject I want to address now is the subject of one person touching or handling another's work. Just how many times do you see cars sitting innocently at a contest table, loaded with "Do Not Touch" signs and some jamoke just has to pick a car up and look under it or open up the hood to look at the engine. With some specific examples, of my life in model cars, I hope you learn from my many defeats and few triumphs. I have over the years been affiliated with contests and clubs since 1961, and known a ton of people, and believe me, it is not only children who have the uncontrollable urge to handle someone else's car. After all, you have your own, and you know how to handle them, so it is OK. right? Wrong!!!!

The rule is if you do not have specific or implied permission to touch or handle a car, Don't!!! My own worst example was to one of my Pactra winners, my full custom sectioned 62 Ford Galaxie Convertible. After I won the contest in Ft. Lauderdale, the hobby shop owner took a string wrapped it around the car and tied the doors shut, although they were not easily opened, they would've stayed shut for the trip. He meant well, but when my car came back, I got a note from judges that a flaw was noted on the finish caused by the string. Nevertheless it was photoed out in Cal and featured in CarModel magazine, and there was the string indentures on the doors. It took 3 months to get the whole thing sanded down and repainted.

Another experience, Wayne Stevens a Salt Lake winner entered his beautiful 48 Chev Galaxie custom in our contest after he moved here. It was beautiful, yet a contestant from another county just had to see how the doors worked, and boom the door fell off. Since the handler was over 300#, it could be assumed that the handling was anything other than delicate. or considerate.

The only implied permission is that judges should be allowed to handle cars when judging them. But when I do, at the registration table, I ask those guys who are entering funny cars, tilt front ends, working doors, hoods, and trunks, removable stuff, as to how to handle it. Would you believe that several contestants tell me not to handle their cars? So I give them zero for detailing if I can't see the underbody chassis or if the hood covers the motor. I have never broken a car when judging.

But I learned that lesson the hard way. One night I had about 10 guys, or should I say 9 guys and 1 jerk over and we worked on our cars for an upcoming contest. The jerk bought a bunch of models from me, and as a courtesy I carried 6 of them out to his car. The jerk put his dragster (no box) right on top of the boxes and I had to balance myself past tree roots, bushes, inbetween cars, and a fellow member opened the door for me. The jerk was carrying the other kits behind me, and when the rear doors were opened the prevailing breeze passed through the rear of the car, and blew the dragster on to the ground, breaking the front wheel off the axle. I will never forget the look on his face, and he was ultra fussy to begin with. From that point on, he always demanded when his cars were judged we all wear gloves when handling his precious cars. I didn't wear the gloves, but I also didn't bother to handle his cars, either.

In a contest there is an implied agreement between the contestant and all judges to exercise great care in handling cars. I tell them I use optivision goggles, a pencil to probe or open things, and at all times I keep the car as close to the table surface as possible. One guy even warned me his beautiful 66 Nova body wasn't secured to the frame, so if one picked it up, the frame was left on the table. Or some guys down here will cut a trunk out and not hinge it, or glue doors in open position, and considering the ease it takes to make a hinge and amount of seminars or just on hand demos, or freebies I gave out, people still wont hinge an opening feature. When Augie Hiscano and Pat Covert in 94 showed me their work, they invited me to handle the cars and they were sturdy, and the paint finish was strong. I took the hint at my own cars from them. My cars can withstand handling, but there are way too many jerks around here, so I impart the "no touch" rule.

If you are a regular attendee or a casual friend, no matter how laid back that person is, that car is an expression of his work, technique, time, effort, money and creativity, and just think how lousy you would feel if you snapped an axle or smudged something, or broke a door or trunk. Ask the owner to show it to you. Have a contest official replace the car back on the table, and if you do not have permission, do not handle someone else's stuff.

I am a very laid back person, but in my first marriage, my housework Type A fussy wife took my Pactra winner car out of its glass display on the entertainment center, dusted it, then dropped it and used Pledge on it, ruining my Candy Sapphire Blue paint job. Our marriage was defined always by her getting mad at me for something, but this time I hit the ceiling, and years later, in divorce court, when the judge banged the gavel, I thought to myself, "My cars are finally safe". I also should have taken into consideration my trains, but that is another story for another forum.

I hope through all this, you realize there is a message in there somewhere.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Harry P.]

Our marriage was defined always by her getting mad at me for something...

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

I realize that this little excerpt is only a small insignificant part of your post, but may I say:

Been there, lived through that!

[Spike]

i dont go to any model show/contests (there are none around here), but i hear you on the no touch rule. i was at a local car show and there was a beautiful 55 chevy there. i was lookin inside it and the owner was sitting right there so i asked him if the interior with power widows was original he said ya open the door and take a better look, i just said no thanks, its not my car and its a beautiful car. and at the same show, the guy that was running it, came over to me and said that he had stopped a couple kids cuz they were tryin to play with the switches on my 5th ave for the hydros.

[RodBurNeR]

Ken, thanks for your point of view and the neat stories! i would love to see what you have built if you want to send me photos or a link to them? i really dig old kustoms and such from back in them days!

[James Flowers]

That is the first thing I tell folks when they come to my house for the first time. I have still had boneheads pick them up anyways. They learn real quick to never do it again. My son and wife never touch them either. I know the feeling of a broken model from numskulls that won't listen.

[evilone]

i know all about that pegasus was throwing a model show last year and half way into it this dumb nut picks up a beautiful 63 impala and starts pulling at the doors and tryin to roll it around

boy alot of the modelers stood up and looked at him like it was blood spilling time then i tol this idiot to put it down and walk away

thank god someone actually listened to me then

oooo

i could only imagine what would have happened to him if he broke it

i think the police would have found his body in an empty field somewhere

[Clay]

I don't really have this problem because I only have 3 models displayed though my house. The Avanti Raul built, the Camaro, and Chevrolet 3500 that I built. And suprisingly they are in the living room!!! But I usually show people the Avanti, and I (!) show them that the doors and hood opens. Then I put it away.

[lordairgtar]

Here is the old geezer, again, guys,

Another experience, Wayne Stevens a Salt Lake winner entered his beautiful 48 Chev Galaxie custom in our contest after he moved here. It was beautiful, yet a contestant from another county just had to see how the doors worked, and boom the door fell off. Since the handler was over 300#, it could be assumed that the handling was anything other than delicate. or considerate.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

It's comments like that that make my blood boil. Who the heck are you to assume that just because the guy was fat that he was a clumsy oaf? If that were the case, all my models would be broken as I am a 409 lb. person. Maybe the guy should have never touched the car (I wouldn't have) but you should not make those assumptions. Small bits of plastic are fragile and can suffer damage under any handling. If the guy was thin, would you have mentioned his weight? Idiot!

[FloridaBoy]

lordairgtar previous post:

It's comments like that that make my blood boil. Who the heck are you to assume that just because the guy was fat that he was a clumsy oaf? If that were the case, all my models would be broken as I am a 409 lb. person. Maybe the guy should have never touched the car (I wouldn't have) but you should not make those assumptions. Small bits of plastic are fragile and can suffer damage under any handling. If the guy was thin, would you have mentioned his weight? Idiot!

Response:

If you look closely beyond your obviously uncontrollable temper, by calling a total stranger an idiot just because he said something you didn't like, maybe you should read it more closely. Never anywhere in my post did I say that the guy was fat, as I am approaching 300 myself. I didn't want to mention the guy was over 6'6", quite soiled, dressed in biker gear, and had a "willing to punch you out" attitude. The smallest guy in the club asked him not to touch any cars, and he complied. Also if you had any knowledge of this situation, you would see that undisciplined children, curious no-knowledge browsers, young teens who don't model, and particularly women who find the cars "cute", and any unknowing person can destroy a car. In this case we all figured the chance of a very large and oblivious person ignoring the signs would stand a better chance to uncaringly break a car, then get physical with the owner who confronts him.

I know as I get older, I am less delicate than I used to be, and after seeing the carnage at contests, every joint I glue is fortified with either epoxy, drill holes and brass rod, and other forms of reinforcement. Glue just doesn't do it anymore except for small parts and superglue major joints.

I am standing by my story as those were the facts. The fact you called me an idiot is not acceptable, as you do not know my intellectual capacity, my cultural background or educational background. It just reveals your uncontrollable temper. Maybe you should find some internal happiness rather than go off on an innocent post intended to help others on this forum.

I do not want to get into a flame war with you over such a minor and inconsequential matter. Kindly ignore my posts from now on.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

Edited November 15, 2008 by FloridaBoy

[lordairgtar]

OK, I shouldn't have said idiot, that on my part was wrong and I apologize. However, the fact remains that if the guy was 5'9" and 120 lbs, it would not have been mentioned. Also, I am very non-violent and I haven't been in a fight since high school in the early 70s. I think my temper is very well controlled. I stated an opinion I had of your post and used very descriptive phraseology. That in no way is meant to imply I would lose my temper. And no, I will not ignore your posts because there is good stuff in them.

[FloridaBoy]

lordairgtar

First I accept your apology and thank you for being a man and manning up. You need to buy into your behavior, though, because calling a person a name is a mild form of abuse, not descriptive language or phraseology. Just because you haven't engaged in any phyical confrontations doesn't mean you can control your temper and what you say. I haven't been in any physical confrontation since I was 15, and I will be 62 my next birthday. I have gotten very angry myself, but paid the price and learned from it when I acted out verbally. It happens to all of us.

I want to add something important here..........

In the past two days, I have been called and "idiot" and an "old fart" complaining about video games and if anyone were to read any of my posts, I state my opinion clearly, and treat everyone and every issue with dignity and respect. As I show respect, I have been around a long while and keeping my nose clean and mouth generally shut. I believe I have earned the respect given to others, and if not shown to me, I will just go back to the model railroad forums and forget about this. I am a 3 time Revell Pactra local and regional winner, IPMW Regional winner, my models were featured in CarModel magazine, have a car in the Model Car Builder's Museum at their request, undefeated in every model car contest in Ft. Lauderdale for 5 years in the "golden age", former President of the IPMS, one could surmise I have given and gotten a lot in the hobby, and will continue to do so. I strongly believe Model Cars magazine is the top class magazine - best ever - regardless of whether the content is aimed at my specific interests, particularly considering we have Jarius, Mark Gustavson, Bob Kuronow, and many others contributing to every issue, and thus, we should honor the magazine by conducting ourselves accordingly with dignity and respect, it not for the magazine but for ourselves and others.

I have seen guys display their cars and "never heard of a discouraging word" toward the workmanship or taste of anything shown. That is respect. To others, before going off the handle and emotionally reacting to my post, read my contents very closely and do not second guess me. My life was spent writing professionally, and I was trained to put down exactly what I mean, and nothing else. I will never get personally involved in any confrontation, but will address the act, which I have done, for I command the same level of respect as you all do.

I am quick to forgive and let's go out and have a beer, the message above is because I consider myself the least likely to be a recipient of this, yet I got it this weekend twice, and that is two times too many. If you were to meet me or know me, you would consider me a genuinely nice person and a true friend.

As a modeler, contestant, club member, judge and builder for over 56 years, I feel I have the credibility to contribute from my personal experiences. It is my desire to leave at least a little legacy in a hobby that has generally treated me well.

(Believe me, it has been worse. I got purse-whipped at a hobby shop by a mother of a young boy who lost contests to me twice in a row. The only problem was that I just protected myself against the battery, called the police, and walked away. Now that I am older, I want to address the issue directly).

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Ricks]

At the Detroit NNL last year I had my models on my vendor table when i was packing up..Yea I know not a good spot for them but model pickup and vendor packup where about the same time. Anyways A young man about 9 or so comes over and grabs my MINI.. He picks it up looks at it and then sets it down and tries to push it.. Instantly I say please dont touch that.. He dont listen. I then say HEY DO NOT TOUCH.. He responds to my raised voice and leaves the model be.. His dad however decides that I shouldnt talk to his kid that way and give me a nasty scowl.. Like I did something wrong. Great fun.. I have kids.. They have been to shows with me.. They know You dont touch anything.

Point of story..My mini survived undamaged and some people just dont respect the work that goes into our hobby.

[lordairgtar]

lordairgtar

(Believe me, it has been worse. I got purse-whipped at a hobby shop by a mother of a young boy who lost contests to me twice in a row. The only problem was that I just protected myself against the battery, called the police, and walked away. Now that I am older, I want to address the issue directly).

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

Wow, I've heard of stuff like that happening but never from an actual recipient of it. WOW! I've seen parents like that on the athletic fields. I've lost contests, but I just studied the winning models when I was a kid. I have a couple of trophies, but nothing like your accomplishments. When I did some cartoons for Car Modeller (Model Behavior), I poked some fun at Mark Gustavson and those cartoons are in Salt Lake. He asked the editor if I would send him the originals. He sent me back a nice letter and some slide pics of his Mercari. Coolness.

[FloridaBoy]

lord,

I was asked to judge a model car contest in 2004 against my better judgement, but they were hard pressed. I tried to be honest, but later learned the contest was as crooked as a hickory tree. First, the President and a couple of officers judged as well, but they entered, which to me was a terrible lapse of good judgement and integrity. Second, the President painted several cars for other members he judged, and gee whiz those cars got trophies. Then I was asked to judge stock cars, and it boiled down to 2 1940 Ford coupes battered into oval racing cars of the fifties and sixties. The defining difference was that the large mold marks on one car were left untouched and stood out like a bloody wound, otherwise a well built model. I gave it a second, and it turned out he had psychological problems and didn't take his meds, and he was judging too, I could see him getting worse as the judging night wore on. He kept pestering me all night to change my determination, totally wrong, bad mouthed me for the second place, and overall complained about entering the contest, despite winning other categories.

At the meeting the following Tuesday, he intentionally sat next to me, and wrote threatening notes, then when he asked the floor, went into a diatribe against me and the judging. That is when I unloaded on the whole thing, the cheating, the shenanigans, judging your own cars, the total lack of integrity which I tried to preserve, and if they wanted to reverse my determination, to go into the treasury and buy this guy another trophy to celebrate his ego. He flipped out, and climbed on top of a counter in the kitchennette ranting and raving and that is when I left, and refused to return ever. Amazingly the President who didn't back me up, and let him go off, asked me to come back and couldn't understand why I wouldn't.

This guy is has since moved away, and the last words that Augie Hiscano told me was why was I friends with this guy? I told him I had my fill of this guy and only joined back when he was long gone.

But other experiences overwhelm the little bad ones. One Friday night, when I was 14, I told my Mom and Dad, that I entered the largest and most prestigious car contest in the City, and the judging would be over by 11pm or midnight. My parents were generally supportive because this pastime was pretty good as it kept me a model child, rather than some others engaged in juvenile deliquency. At this contest, at Gateway Hobby Shop down by the beach, had over 350 entries, and told my parents I would be happy with a 3 place. So, Dad brought it up to go out to late dinner, go down to Bahia Mar what the charter fishing boats caught, and catch the results on the way home. After midnight, we pulled up and the store was dark, but the window was lit. We looked around and on the side shelf in the window, there was my car, First Place!!!! My most valued trophy, because my Dad put his arm around me and said he was proud of me. I didn't sleep that night and called every friend I knew the next day. I finally made it!!!!!!!

Lord, didn't your cartoons appear in their newsletter? I remember that something was in them. Also, I love Mark's work, and love that Mercari. He and I did some work together when judging his Model Car magazine custom contest. I hope some day to see him, or make a trip to Salt Lake City. Maybe there is one more contest in me before the toes go vertical and I start fertilizing the daisies. I wanted to enter the GSLMCC, and hope that I get to sometime. Heck I am still young.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[lordairgtar]

Very interesting stories of your experiences. I'm glad we don't have any unstable people in our club (or at least they are taking their meds) Wow! I'll bet your winning of that trophy was just as much a source of pride for your father as well as you. I don't know if any of those cartoons ever were printed in their newsletter. If they were, that's prety cool. They were about his computerized Riviera project where I depicted Mark as an android with his programming mixed up between modeler and lawyer. The other I did had the Riv hooked up to this huuuuuge mainframe. Someone else did one as well. I no longer have those copies of the magazine, so I can't even reference them.

[Jantrix]

At our local IPMS shows all parents are warned that if they fail to control their children or themselves while in the contest room they will be asked to leave. I saw two families escorted to the door by our senior members that day. I was very proud of them. It seems kids have a hard time at the car and sci-fi tables especially.

As for my club, they ask all builders (prior to judging) to set their model in a way they wish it judged. This way they don't need to touch the model at all. This way if they want a hood or door opened to better view it's contents, they can do so before the judges come around.

[Ramcharger]

We have an unwritten rile in motorcycling, Touching a guy's bike is like kissing his wife, you just don't. (actually it's a little more explicit, but basically the same). Model cars are the same. As far as contests - don't touch and don't ask to. You won't like my reaction if you do. People need to control themselves and their children around other people's work. Luckily, I have never had anyone touch my cars at a contest, but like most things, if you do them long enough things will happen.

[RodBurNeR]

I just wanted to add how eager guys are to allow me the handling of their models at shows. Well....i take pics of their models for Model Cars Mag and they are delighted to have me pick them up, turn them around, remove the hoods, flip them over and breath hard on them HAHA!! Sorry but this thread made me think of that.....how anal it's getting here.

I don't think anyone should pick up or touch a model without permission. That is why cards are laid out by the models , so it's up to the owner if they want "interaction".

I must say, many of the models i took photos of were extremely detailed, flawless masterpeices in which i could not put value on.....but i would guess some of them could easily fetch a thousand dollars on eBay or to the right guy.

In my opinion , if you didn't want your models touched because something might get broken.......might leave them at home? What if the table got bumped and the sign got knocked over, or what if someone was setting their model up and caught yours on their jacket and slingshot it yours to the floor?........ this CAN and DOES happen.

My word for the wise: If you are willing to bring your models to a show.....you are willing to take a chance. Some kid may grab your model, some adult may finger it up a little.....judges will pick it to death in the palm of their hands.....it's just the way it is.......though we don't like it........we can't always stop it.

On the other hand it's a real pleasure taking photos as i am able to see the best up close and personal.....as well to get to know the builders and i have a genuinely good time with the experience! Each person has been very nice and have even had some insist that i pick them up and check out things because "they can be put back together" ;-)

It's a hobby guys.....not an artifact convention.

[FloridaBoy]

awbcrazy,

At the last contest I was involved in, Wayne Stevens asked my permission to take some photos of my 40 Fords which won old Pactra contests I displayed with the trophies. I was honored that a winner of the Custom Class from the latest Salt Lake contest is admiring my stuff and asking my permission to pose my cars for photos. I gave him total freedom to handle as he saw fit. It is a trust issue, I guess. I would rather trust a fellow modeler I know to handle my cars or a judge taking that chance.

Never a newbie, casual modeler, or insensitive person, never. I know the risk, and realizing that even if I don't enter, i take a model car first aid kit of tools, touch up paint, glue and polish. Frankly, I probably would entrust just about anyone on this forum provided they id'd themselves, as their work is just as delicate to handle as i would expect them to treat mine.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[billd64]

The irony in your message is even judges sometimes have accidents, i nadvertantly lifted another judges motorcycle, with his papers right under it to move it, at the direction of another judge.... a piece of photoetch came unglued. many lessons were learned of those two individuals, both negative and worthy lessons.

its in a persons nature to touch, especially kids. When my son was younger he went with a group of us to a Noreastcon, and we explained to him several ways about not touching models on tables. He developed his own way of stepping back to get our attn, and telling us where too look, at what he thought was awesome.

At another show, his models were moved to help him, and the show, he got upset and went to host club president, me, my club president, and regional chair at time, and expressed his concerns about this "traumatic" event inhis eyes any way.... many learned fromhis lesson that day, and enjoyed his attitude about it, as well as his professionalism about it age 6. He was extremely politie to all, but he let be known that he was told under no circumstances to touch models, and someone moved his.... we all loved his lesson that day, as well as his display in manners that were complimented upon many times that weekend by many, I started blushing, he was getting self concios about it as well.

In short YES the two professional modelers you mentioned as well as several others I have met over time, can do phenominal things with a model, have them bounce off the floor, and remain intact.... but accidents do happen.... sometimes the best intention like your hobby store person is a sad learnign lesson, as for your ex..... well been down that road with mine.... even her ruining an award winning Mustang I had made for her desk at work and giving it to me boxed the night before we left for a show, irony was my son told me the whole story of how the model was damaged enroute to the show.

Yes accidents happen, especially from judges..... but your rant abotu scared is valid as well room "VISITORS / CONTESTANTS UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD TOUCH ANOTHERS MODELS" even as a judge i've been sent to get modeler to help display his model for judges. The down side to a show is that people dont read, even when you make a note and put it next to model.....

As for gloves, I was taught to judge with a flashlight, and dental mirror, and white camera gloves, just like using surgical gloves while working on to avoid hand oils before and after painting...

I heard what you were saying in your rant, but part of the problem, is that some of these damages you shuld anticipate, and almost expect when you go to a show/ display.... as for ex and display cases.... not even my g/f nor my son goes near case, he asks me to get his out for him, as he doesnt want to break the glass or drop the odel from the glass shelves.... im still lucky in that respect

I read and hear you as a modeler and a judge, i'm fortunate, my son listened when he was with me on weekends and went to shows, and you should have seen him, when i brought his model to school for show and tell.... me irecall being smacked as a kid for touchig anything.....

my wonder is how do you stop it, put a rope rail 2ft away from tables to make viewing/touching harder? maybe put a price tag in front of model, and let it be known you break you owe me, no exceptions? whats the best answer / solution ( i have had them ruined spitefully and accidentally so i really do understand your angst over this issue)

Here is the old geezer, again, guys,

The subject I want to address now is the subject of one person touching or handling another's work. Just how many times do you see cars sitting innocently at a contest table, loaded with "Do Not Touch" signs and some jamoke just has to pick a car up and look under it or open up the hood to look at the engine. With some specific examples, of my life in model cars, I hope you learn from my many defeats and few triumphs. I have over the years been affiliated with contests and clubs since 1961, and known a ton of people, and believe me, it is not only children who have the uncontrollable urge to handle someone else's car. After all, you have your own, and you know how to handle them, so it is OK. right? Wrong!!!!

The rule is if you do not have specific or implied permission to touch or handle a car, Don't!!! My own worst example was to one of my Pactra winners, my full custom sectioned 62 Ford Galaxie Convertible. After I won the contest in Ft. Lauderdale, the hobby shop owner took a string wrapped it around the car and tied the doors shut, although they were not easily opened, they would've stayed shut for the trip. He meant well, but when my car came back, I got a note from judges that a flaw was noted on the finish caused by the string. Nevertheless it was photoed out in Cal and featured in CarModel magazine, and there was the string indentures on the doors. It took 3 months to get the whole thing sanded down and repainted.

Another experience, Wayne Stevens a Salt Lake winner entered his beautiful 48 Chev Galaxie custom in our contest after he moved here. It was beautiful, yet a contestant from another county just had to see how the doors worked, and boom the door fell off. Since the handler was over 300#, it could be assumed that the handling was anything other than delicate. or considerate.

The only implied permission is that judges should be allowed to handle cars when judging them. But when I do, at the registration table, I ask those guys who are entering funny cars, tilt front ends, working doors, hoods, and trunks, removable stuff, as to how to handle it. Would you believe that several contestants tell me not to handle their cars? So I give them zero for detailing if I can't see the underbody chassis or if the hood covers the motor. I have never broken a car when judging.

But I learned that lesson the hard way. One night I had about 10 guys, or should I say 9 guys and 1 jerk over and we worked on our cars for an upcoming contest. The jerk bought a bunch of models from me, and as a courtesy I carried 6 of them out to his car. The jerk put his dragster (no box) right on top of the boxes and I had to balance myself past tree roots, bushes, inbetween cars, and a fellow member opened the door for me. The jerk was carrying the other kits behind me, and when the rear doors were opened the prevailing breeze passed through the rear of the car, and blew the dragster on to the ground, breaking the front wheel off the axle. I will never forget the look on his face, and he was ultra fussy to begin with. From that point on, he always demanded when his cars were judged we all wear gloves when handling his precious cars. I didn't wear the gloves, but I also didn't bother to handle his cars, either.

In a contest there is an implied agreement between the contestant and all judges to exercise great care in handling cars. I tell them I use optivision goggles, a pencil to probe or open things, and at all times I keep the car as close to the table surface as possible. One guy even warned me his beautiful 66 Nova body wasn't secured to the frame, so if one picked it up, the frame was left on the table. Or some guys down here will cut a trunk out and not hinge it, or glue doors in open position, and considering the ease it takes to make a hinge and amount of seminars or just on hand demos, or freebies I gave out, people still wont hinge an opening feature. When Augie Hiscano and Pat Covert in 94 showed me their work, they invited me to handle the cars and they were sturdy, and the paint finish was strong. I took the hint at my own cars from them. My cars can withstand handling, but there are way too many jerks around here, so I impart the "no touch" rule.

If you are a regular attendee or a casual friend, no matter how laid back that person is, that car is an expression of his work, technique, time, effort, money and creativity, and just think how lousy you would feel if you snapped an axle or smudged something, or broke a door or trunk. Ask the owner to show it to you. Have a contest official replace the car back on the table, and if you do not have permission, do not handle someone else's stuff.

I am a very laid back person, but in my first marriage, my housework Type A fussy wife took my Pactra winner car out of its glass display on the entertainment center, dusted it, then dropped it and used Pledge on it, ruining my Candy Sapphire Blue paint job. Our marriage was defined always by her getting mad at me for something, but this time I hit the ceiling, and years later, in divorce court, when the judge banged the gavel, I thought to myself, "My cars are finally safe". I also should have taken into consideration my trains, but that is another story for another forum.

I hope through all this, you realize there is a message in there somewhere.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[billd64]

my son is similar, has insisted upon being in model room since he could walk.... he used to rattle the safety gate like a mad man....

i gave him a body, and sand paper and showed him, how, and then we built one together, and have three awards for it.... and he made finescale for it, during his first display i beamed with pride in him, and his abilities.

his teachers have called me, but when i listen to them, the story is accurate, and i bring the models to them for his benefit.

he has taken to doing snaps with his now autistic brother, he says they both like it, but i know his mothers husband has drop kicked a few as well.

modelers/adults..... doesnt seem to matter we all become kids and have to touch even like we did when told not to by parents and then got hurt

bill

one would think that fellow model builders would have that respect for others work, but it's sad that many don't. i have had some ham-fisted folks pick up some of my builds before and make me break out into the sweats instantly as i politely ask them to put the model down please. this is usually inquisitive friends or family members that don't build. i have been suprised though at my club meeting at a few "fellow" members who won't even hesitate to pick a model up from a table to have closer look.

thankfully i have a model room in my house where i do my building and keep my finished stuff in display cases away from curious fingers and wild animals. my wife won't touch anything and my youngest 2 kids arent even allowed in there yet. my 5 yr old son is and he likes to hang out with dad. i made space for him to have of his own as well, so he can keep his own stuff there. he likes building things with Lego's and has done a handful of model kits himself so i think he already understands the importance of leaving other peoples stuff alone.

Dave

[novadose71]

Good topics and stories!

I've never been to a judged show where they handle your model and I've never had some Joe at a show just grab one of my models and pick it up. I have seen some jumpy kids around the tables though, they made me pretty nervous, but I've never had to say anything. If needed, I'll just browse over to the same table, and maybe ask what the little rugrats favorite car is or something along those lines. Sometimes just making an adult presence known is enough to calm them, or at least move them along.

When at one of our club meetings, we just ask if it's ok to pick up, and how to handle someone else' build. Some get grabbed by the drip rails, some need to be scooped up, "watch out the hood falls off!!!!" etc, etc. We are all modelers so we should be able to handle it.

OK, so we build a club diorama every year, which usually includes 2-4 cars per each of the 6 members and because of a deadline we don't always complete each model(I'm usually the biggest offender), so unglued or possibly unpainted chassis' aren't uncommon, they just gotta look good sitting on the dio. At a show where we had the dio set up, another magazine (What, there's another magazine? ) was set up for pics. The magazines photographer was talking to club member X about one of his Nascar builds and how it was very nice but couldn't be in the magazine because of sponsorship, blah,blah,blah. He was asked which of the cars on our dio were his, without any kind of handling or picture taking permission being asked. Member X pointed his out and they talked for a while more, and parted ways. Not 5 minutes later there was the photographer halfway to the picture room, club members model dangling from the driprails, freshly snatched from our diorama. Luckily, this particular model had made it through final assembly, so the chassis and interior didn't fall 3 feet to the floor as any one of my dio cars would have. Member X caught up with him in the photo room and after a brief discussion on the why's and why nots of handling someone else' model, followed by some hasty excuses, the model was allowed to be photographed and the show went on. Nothing bad came of this scenario but it could have went south very fast.

I think there has to be some expectation that an accident can (will?) happen to your build when it is displayed at a show. From a low hanging sleeve to a uncontrolled 5 year old, to the lowest of lows, getting your build getting stolen, anything can happen. But (except judged shows where handling by officials is normal) anyone(no matter who you are) who wishes to handle anothers model, should first ask for permission and then ask how it should be handled, or just ask the builder to pick it up and show it to you, most will be more than happy to oblige, I know I would.

That's all I got.........................

[Steven Zimmerman]

....My biggest complaint is.....HATS !....How many times have I seen someone wearing a ball cap,cowboy hat,etc. bend over to closely inspect details on a model.....and not realize how close their hat comes to scratching a paint job.......or knocking a model off it's display stand. I've had to wipe drool and mucus(disgusting) off my models at contests before,and still have a model that the hood won't fit because the fuel injection system sits higher,due to someone pushing down on top of said model and breaking the molded in front pan where it was attached to the frame...............Steven Zimmerman aka the'Z'man

[bobss396]

This is a "touchy" subject, lol. The only time anyone is really allowed to handle another modeler's car is at contests, unless they hand it to another person, which I do sometimes.

At our contest, the entry form that stays with the model has a box to check off, can the judges handle the car? Yes or no. If the car can't be handled, then it gets judged as it sits. Which can work for you or against you as a contestant. I've seen special instructions added, the body is loose, pick it up by the rocker panels, etc.

I've been fortunate and have seen very few cars damaged at contests, usually in transporting or the owner setting it up. I did see coffee sloshed into a model at one show, man was the owner pi$$ed off. I took two giant steps backward from that scene.

So discounting events dictated by bizarre irrational human behavior and the full moon syndrome, the majority of modelers are respectful of the work that others put into their models. I've had to tell non-modelers who have seen my work, not to pick it up, I'll do it for them. Which some have taken as an insult, oh well.

Bob

[FloridaBoy]

Guys,

I think I inadvertently opened up a can of worms, unfortunately a large can. Didn't mean to, but I think all of us ranting is enabling us to get some steam off our respective chests. I know between the PM's and posts, emotions ran high, but it is all worthwhile.

I will relate an experience with kids touching models, but this time trains and cars. In 1998, my train club hosted a regional train show, swap meet and contest. My contribution was that my home train layout would be open for any tours or conventioneers, so a booklet of all of with open houses that weekend would be given a map and a description. Because I am located near the train clubhouse, as well as the convention location, I always get lots of visitors, most almost all good, and a real wack job or two. In all plastic model building hobbies, are the common enemy, rivet counters, those nit pickers who try to elevate themselves at the expense of their victim or his work.

I was introduced in my own house to probably the worst one. This guy was some jerk from way out of town, brought his cosmetically challenged wife and undisciplined child. It was a hot Florida sunny day, and we were in my garage/workshop which was fan-cooled, and when people blocked the breeze it was hot. I was honored by being visited by Jim Kelly of Model Railroader, which is comparable to Gregg and Jarius knocking at your door wanting to see your collection of work.

Jim was being entertained as my layout was fun, and we had new locos running that not even he had seen, because the freebies were waiting at his office. While and his friends were running trains and having fun, in walks this family. Immediately, the guy starts in criticizing everything, about my layout, his main thrust is that I chose the Pennsylvania to model while I should have modeled Great Northern, Since this was a club event, I smiled and took it, and "niced him to death". Meanwhile the little Pugsley he called a son quietly located himself behind a mountain, and took great joy in plunking or flicking the running trains off the track, and we could hear him giggling and busted him. My friend asked the father to keep his child under control, and he made every excuse in the book to avoid even correcting him. Jim saw him stuff my N scale autos and trucks in his pocket later, and we asked the kid to empty his pockets, again no correction. Then Jim, here is this big name in trains, coming to my assistance, asked the "dad" that since his layout is so exemplary, if he could bring a camera crew by and photo it and feature it in the next issue. Jim knew the answer forthcoming....."uh, I don't have a layout". You could cut the embarassment with a machete compounded by all of the glares he got aimed at him. Before he left, his wife asked to use the bathroom, which is a "no-no" on layout tours. That is crossing the line. After she left, my wife called me in the house, and I wondered if their hometown ever had indoor plumbing. She was that gross.

My wife asked Jim to pose for a picture and this subhuman family wedged their way in one of them, but now, it serves as an example to be more cautious about open houses and guests, and for here, if you have people over to look at your cars. Beware of nit pickers, criticizers, and my best friend is proud he could predict by the look on the kid's face if he will violate the train club's no touch policy. So far he is batting 1.000.

So at contests, take negative criticisms, or people ripping your style, era, type of car, taste without any suggestions with a total grain of salt. Many will feign being modelers so they have a chance that you may think they are familiar enough to touch or handle your car. Also, start looking at the look on several kids face and parental treatment to protect your work at a contest. Usually it is hyperactive or undisciplined kids with enabling parents that just can't resist the temptation.

Maybe a golden rule in our hobby should be, "Treat every model as if it were built by a famous person". In other words, don't touch.

Ken 'Floridaboy" Willaman