Zero paints - gritty finish question

[Dave G.]

On 2/16/2021 at 5:56 PM, Mcpesq817 said:

Sorry to resurrect this one.  I have been finishing up some other builds before turning back to these.  I was just looking at the youtube channel for hpiguy, and noticed that he predominantly uses Rustoleum and Krylon rattle cans to paint his cars.  Made me thing - would Rustoleum primer be a better barrier for the Zero paints?

I never thought about using the rattle cans you can get in Home Depot to paint model cars.  I figured the paints and primers would be too coarse, but it looks like that hpiguy was able to get very nice results.  Any downside to using those rattle cans?  Makes me wonder what I'm doing spending the money I'm spending on Tamiya, Vallejo, Zero, etc. when a couple of bucks at Home Depot might do the trick and I don't have to worry about cleaning the airbrush.  Aside from getting the particular colors one might want, do you guys see any issues using Rustoleum and Krylon?  

Now I'm resurrecting your post from Feb lol ! I won't speak on the primers under Zero. But I've been messing with Rustoleum colors, Painters Touch and also 2X. Let me just say it works from the can but it's a pretty heavy coat, really one coat will do it if you got good coverage and missed nothing. Two coats is more paint than a model really needs but it's ok. Now here's the deal, after those tests I decanted to shot with the Paasche H. Same good results and much better control, you can slow down the passes. Thin it just a little bit extra and you can get 3-4 coats and that super enamel finish. And what I really liked was the satin finish paint and buff it in a few days to a week or so. Now you get a really convincing 1950's factory finish. It buffs up to where it doesn't knock your eyes out with the gloss but you can see every tree in the yard in the finish. That's the look I like for factory stock paint jobs in the old cars I enjoy building, which by the way were not clear coated. And I didn't prime in my test shoots, I shot right to plastic ( not say I wouldn't prime but didn't). To me through an airbrush it acts pretty much like Model Master enamels. I bought a can I'm using on my 1/16 57 T Bird when I get to that build. That's in my future as I have two 1/16 models now to finish up and two 1/25 nearly complete but can't quite see my way back to. I get off on these experiments and right away think of another kits I'd like to use that on lol.

[Mcpesq817]

6 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

Now I'm resurrecting your post from Feb lol ! I won't speak on the primers under Zero. But I've been messing with Rustoleum colors, Painters Touch and also 2X. Let me just say it works from the can but it's a pretty heavy coat, really one coat will do it if you got good coverage and missed nothing. Two coats is more paint than a model really needs but it's ok. Now here's the deal, after those tests I decanted to shot with the Paasche H. Same good results and much better control, you can slow down the passes. Thin it just a little bit extra and you can get 3-4 coats and that super enamel finish. And what I really liked was the satin finish paint and buff it in a few days to a week or so. Now you get a really convincing 1950's factory finish. It buffs up to where it doesn't knock your eyes out with the gloss but you can see every tree in the yard in the finish. That's the look I like for factory stock paint jobs in the old cars I enjoy building, which by the way were not clear coated. And I didn't prime in my test shoots, I shot right to plastic ( not say I wouldn't prime but didn't). To me through an airbrush it acts pretty much like Model Master enamels. I bought a can I'm using on my 1/16 57 T Bird when I get to that build. That's in my future as I have two 1/16 models now to finish up and two 1/25 nearly complete but can't quite see my way back to. I get off on these experiments and right away think of another kits I'd like to use that on lol.

Thanks Dave for posting your experience with those rattle cans.  Can I ask - when you decant, what kind of thinner do you apply to it to shoot through the airbrush?  And what ratio?  I'm assuming you decant first, and then thin when you go to airbrush rather than decant and add thinner to the decanted container?

[Dave G.]

2 minutes ago, Mcpesq817 said:

Thanks Dave for posting your experience with those rattle cans.  Can I ask - when you decant, what kind of thinner do you apply to it to shoot through the airbrush?  And what ratio?  I'm assuming you decant first, and then thin when you go to airbrush rather than decant and add thinner to the decanted container?

Well MP, I shot it as is too. I added just a little lacquer thinner next time. I decanted about half a mixing bottle which is about like a Model Master bottle. I didn't really measure, just shot in a little thinner with a pipette. Wasn't really all that much but it enabled me to trim the nozzle setting back. I had it pretty opened up as is out of the can but it shot ok, just had to open up. This was a while back around late May or so, pretty sure I put down 2-3 coats out of the can through the airbrush and 4 coats thinned, wet coats too. Using the spray can for me was too much paint but that came out good too, just gotta be careful.

After decanting I let it sit to out gas with the lid just on loose. Maybe an hour. Tightened the cap at half hour and shook and got pressure when I loosened the cap and some bubble in the paint, at an hour it stopped doing that. All I did is cover the top of the bottle with a wad of paper towel, and gently as I could spray into the bottle at an angle to get my paint in short spurts. Took about ten minutes to get the quantity I wanted, didn't spill any and no over spray, course I was outside. I know there are more sophisticated ways but for a test it worked. I did that with white and with light aqua.

[Mcpesq817]

Thanks Dave!  Really appreciate it!  Hope all is well.

Mike

[Dave G.]

19 minutes ago, Mcpesq817 said:

Thanks Dave!  Really appreciate it!  Hope all is well.

Mike

Oh I'm getting there ( lost my wife back in Dec, still get rocked now and then out of nowhere but overall much better than I was).

[Mcpesq817]

Oh, I'm so sorry Dave, did not realize that.  My sincere condolences.  

[jchrisf]

2 hours ago, Dave G. said:

Now I'm resurrecting your post from Feb lol ! I won't speak on the primers under Zero. But I've been messing with Rustoleum colors, Painters Touch and also 2X. Let me just say it works from the can but it's a pretty heavy coat, really one coat will do it if you got good coverage and missed nothing. Two coats is more paint than a model really needs but it's ok. Now here's the deal, after those tests I decanted to shot with the Paasche H. Same good results and much better control, you can slow down the passes. Thin it just a little bit extra and you can get 3-4 coats and that super enamel finish. And what I really liked was the satin finish paint and buff it in a few days to a week or so. Now you get a really convincing 1950's factory finish. It buffs up to where it doesn't knock your eyes out with the gloss but you can see every tree in the yard in the finish. That's the look I like for factory stock paint jobs in the old cars I enjoy building, which by the way were not clear coated. And I didn't prime in my test shoots, I shot right to plastic ( not say I wouldn't prime but didn't). To me through an airbrush it acts pretty much like Model Master enamels. I bought a can I'm using on my 1/16 57 T Bird when I get to that build. That's in my future as I have two 1/16 models now to finish up and two 1/25 nearly complete but can't quite see my way back to. I get off on these experiments and right away think of another kits I'd like to use that on lol.

Thanks for that Dave... I just tried Rustoleum and was wondering what it would be like to decant it.  One thing I like about it is it doesn't stink as bad as lacquers.  The matte Fire red I bought went down really nice and light out of the can... but the matte black and sandable white primer came out heavy but settled down nicely.  Can't wait to decant it on my next build.

I like getting everything covered in one medium coat and this stuff covers well.  I guess the 2X I used is a paint and primer in one.

[jchrisf]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:29 PM, Dave G. said:

Well MP, I shot it as is too. I added just a little lacquer thinner next time. I decanted about half a mixing bottle which is about like a Model Master bottle. I didn't really measure, just shot in a little thinner with a pipette. Wasn't really all that much but it enabled me to trim the nozzle setting back. I had it pretty opened up as is out of the can but it shot ok, just had to open up. This was a while back around late May or so, pretty sure I put down 2-3 coats out of the can through the airbrush and 4 coats thinned, wet coats too. Using the spray can for me was too much paint but that came out good too, just gotta be careful.

After decanting I let it sit to out gas with the lid just on loose. Maybe an hour. Tightened the cap at half hour and shook and got pressure when I loosened the cap and some bubble in the paint, at an hour it stopped doing that. All I did is cover the top of the bottle with a wad of paper towel, and gently as I could spray into the bottle at an angle to get my paint in short spurts. Took about ten minutes to get the quantity I wanted, didn't spill any and no over spray, course I was outside. I know there are more sophisticated ways but for a test it worked. I did that with white and with light aqua.

Dave, which paint did you thin with Lacquer thinner?  Fortunately I didn't thin my 2X but when I went to do the cleanup in my airbrush and put the lacquer thinner in, it turn to jelly.  Checked the can and it said to clean up with Mineral Spirits.  Fortunately I had a little left and was able to clean out the airbrush.

[Dave G.]

8 minutes ago, jchrisf said:

Dave, which paint did you thin with Lacquer thinner?  Fortunately I didn't thin my 2X but when I went to do the cleanup in my airbrush and put the lacquer thinner in, it turn to jelly.  Checked the can and it said to clean up with Mineral Spirits.  Fortunately I had a little left and was able to clean out the airbrush.

Hmmm, I just shot decanted 2X Ocean Mist gloss today with a little added lacquer thinner and cleaned up with lacquer thinner as well. Came out very nice. Before I believe I was talking about the regular Rusto Painters touch satin white and then 2x satin aqua. All has gone well. The LT is hardware store KleenStrip. And yes I'm sure mineral spirits would work.

It will spray without the added thinner fine, I just prefer closing the needle down a little and getting those thinner but still glossy smooth coats.. Todays working pressure on the H was 35psi which put static pressure up around 40.. I've always found enamel to airbrush well there anyway, even decades ago.

[peteski]

Guys, lacquer thinner is not identical between brands, and even between the locations where it is sold.  Different brands use different types and proportions of solvents (which in general do thin lacquers well, but with all the newly formulated paints, not all will work equally well). Then there are states like California, which mandate which and how much of certain chemicals can be used in paints and thinners.

Edited September 11, 2021 by peteski

[Dave G.]

13 hours ago, peteski said:

Guys, lacquer thinner is not identical between brands, and even between the locations where it is sold.  Different brands use different types and proportions of solvents (which in general do thin lacquers well, but with all the newly formulated paints, not all will work equally well). Then there are states like California, which mandate which and how much of certain chemicals can be used in paints and thinners.

I actually came on here this morning Pete, to say basically what you just did. In my state Kleen Strip is still basically lacquer thinner but I notice it's much less aggressive than it used to be or not as hot. It doesn't clean nearly as well as it used to for instance. But it works in Rustoleum 2x and in the remaining bits of Model Master I have left.. Now last I knew in California the hardware store thinners there were mandated down to be almost pure acetone.

I may go on a search for some automotive medium and slow thinners. I found PPG for a pretty decent price a couple of weeks back. At one time I used all Dupont products because that's the line I mainly used in 1/1 for 3 decades.

[jchrisf]

15 hours ago, Dave G. said:

Hmmm, I just shot decanted 2X Ocean Mist gloss today with a little added lacquer thinner and cleaned up with lacquer thinner as well. Came out very nice. Before I believe I was talking about the regular Rusto Painters touch satin white and then 2x satin aqua. All has gone well. The LT is hardware store KleenStrip. And yes I'm sure mineral spirits would work.

It will spray without the added thinner fine, I just prefer closing the needle down a little and getting those thinner but still glossy smooth coats.. Todays working pressure on the H was 35psi which put static pressure up around 40.. I've always found enamel to airbrush well there anyway, even decades ago.

Well, it was Rustoleum 2X white primer I shot so maybe there is something about the primer that caused it though I did look at the cleanup directions on it and the 2X black matte I have and they both say cleanup with Mineral Spirits or Xylol.  I have a bottle of Fusion fire red and it doesn't have cleanup instructions on it so I will have to experiment.

It went on fine but it was very thick.. I'll definitely thin it the next time.

[Dave G.]

57 minutes ago, jchrisf said:

Well, it was Rustoleum 2X white primer I shot so maybe there is something about the primer that caused it though I did look at the cleanup directions on it and the 2X black matte I have and they both say cleanup with Mineral Spirits or Xylol.  I have a bottle of Fusion fire red and it doesn't have cleanup instructions on it so I will have to experiment.

It went on fine but it was very thick.. I'll definitely thin it the next time.

Just for the record I've never used their primer thus never thinned it or cleaned it up. I use Stynylrez primer. I have found in my tests that while 2x enamels ( top coat) have a degree of self priming feature to them and don't do bad on plastics with no primer under them, none the less stick all the better with a primer coat first put down. Since I've been dealing with all light colors lately then my primer has been white Stynylrez.

[peteski]

5 hours ago, Dave G. said:

I actually came on here this morning Pete, to say basically what you just did. In my state Kleen Strip is still basically lacquer thinner but I notice it's much less aggressive than it used to be or not as hot. It doesn't clean nearly as well as it used to for instance.

That is another variable I forgot to mention: Even the same brand of lacquer thinner changes formula over time.  I have some really old SCL brand lacquer thinner, and I also bought some more few years ago.,  They smell different and list different ingredients on the labels.

Besides that lacquer thinner, I also use DT870 PPG brand medium temperature reducer.  Since it is made for, it works well with all automotive lacquers and enamels (made for 1:1 cars).  Works really well, but it is pricey (which often is a problem for the tight-wallet modelers).

 

[jchrisf]

I just used the Rustoleum 2X Gloss Clear and got the best paint job I've ever done.  Really quick and easy too, right out of the can.  I just quickly pressed the button a little but not all the way and did some quick passes over the body.  Then did a second coat the same way about 30 minutes later and it laid down smooth and glossy.  The Fusion Fire Red and 2X Matte Black I painted under it laid down even smoother.  I used these colors on the chassis as well and it seems to be tougher than any other paint I've used.  Usually I'll get a mark here and there putting it together but nothing yet on this build.

I'm going to wait a couple of days and polish it out to see if I can get a mirror shine.  That will be the true test to see how tough the clear is.