Newsflash! GM will kill Pontiac!

[59-Desoto]

Evey one has made some good points about the big three, wasn't that long ago that it was the big four if you add back in AMC/Rambler whom we lost in the seventies as well as seeing British Layland go under , That should have raised some red flags then as to were the American car makers were heading but sadly they keep building cars that weren't up to snuff and by the late seventies and early eighties there was nothing but junk coming out of Detroit. Thats when the imports really got a foot hold in the US. I had hope never to see the American car disappear but it's seems it may very well happen. Maybe not altogether but as many of us remember it.

My idea would to be cut only the models not selling slow the production lines down and get some fresh designers in place even if it means bring them in from out side the US. The next thing would be to get the factory rep.s out in the field and talk to the very people who work on them everyday in the dealerships to better understand whats going on not only under the hood but under the sheet metal as well. I ask a GM rep one time why they didn't try to make the cars a little easier to work with and his reply was they weren't meant to be repaired on. GM is in the selling business not the repair business , so then I ask him is not repair work related to selling as well? He wouldn't give me an answer.

As for Pontiac I hate to see them go but it's been in the work for some time so it's not really news for the most part but more surprise. But its all self inflected as I see it. But wow I mess them days of old and those stop light to stop light runs late at night in a GTO or Charger or even you favorite Mustang. I'll always remember the 442 Olds , Pontiac GTO , Dodge Chargers and Plymouth Roadrunners and all those other muscle car days and now near gone.

Edited April 25, 2009 by 59-Desoto

[old low&slo]

I know some of you guys like to blame unions for being a big part of the problem but just curious have any of you guys ever been in one ????

and if so have you ever had to go on strike ???????????

I am not trying to pick a fight just curious .

I have never posted any builds on here I come from LIL and build lowriders and I know they are not really well liked on here and I am also 52 yrs old just to let to know I am not some smart aleck kid. also I was a member of the USWA for 18 years. I served as a grievance commitee chairman and was a shop steward for many years. and I think you may see a rise in union membership in the coming years as more and more companies push the do more with less people to the extreme as we are seeing now.

[59-Desoto]

I know some of you guys like to blame unions for being a big part of the problem but just curious have any of you guys ever been in one ????

and if so have you ever had to go on strike ???????????

I am not trying to pick a fight just curious .

I have never posted any builds on here I come from LIL and build lowriders and I know they are not really well liked on here and I am also 52 yrs old just to let to know I am not some smart aleck kid. also I was a member of the USWA for 18 years. I served as a grievance commitee chairman and was a shop steward for many years. and I think you may see a rise in union membership in the coming years as more and more companies push the do more with less people to the extreme as we are seeing now.

Yea I was part of the CWA for a while several years back , I am 55 and to me there was a time the unions were a good thing but not so sure they are the right thing today. Many of my family member were a part of the UAW so unions aren't nothing new to me. It's not just a one sided problem and no I dont blame the unions , but I do blame the auto makers. This didn't happen over night it happen over years and anyone old enough and has been around cars long enough will tell you much the same. And hey cars are cool any way you build them short and fast or long and low.

[B_rad88]

As for Cadys, they'd be stupid to do that. That's about the only big car that gets 30+ mpg on the road. I have an 89 and 95 and they both get that. For a V8 that ain't bad.

THANK YOU!!!!! i had a 89 cadillac sedan deville with a 4.8l single point fuel injection, and it would average about 34-36mpg(it being well taken care of )

that was one hell of a car. i loved everything of that car! plush interior, classic exterior, big powerfull engine (i would roast my tyres! ) soft suspension (i could drive over a speed bump and the car keeps on bouncin'! ) and one kick a** sound system. it was stock. THE HOLE CAR WAS STOCK! NOT A THING AFTERMARKET ON IT! IT WAS ALL CADDILAC OEM PARTS! and then some A****** stole it and crashed it in to a parked van!

[sak]

Not the best of news, but I won't shed any tears. If the future of pontiac was rebranded v8 powered, RWD holdens, there were bound to doomed sooner or later. For every car nut thats demanding these cars, theres probably 5 secretly wanting something that gets 30+miles per gallon. Think people, pice of petrol is never going to go down, its only going to go up,up,up.Pontiac is indeed a historic marque but I am no fan of modern transportation and pontiac is no exception. The pontiacs of today share little in common with the pontiacs of old. Perhaps a nosepeice with a split grille and an orange triangle. If I was to see shaded in silohettes of all the 2008 GM models, other than the solstice, I could not pick out the pontiacs. Altough I do know what a pontiac sunbird looks like because I owned one. Worst car I ever had, done in by a burnt out ignition coil, brillaintly located UNDER the intake manifold, with no protection against road salt and requiring rubber arms to replace. . But basically what I am tryin to say is that this is a sign of the times and If pontiac had any groundbreaking concepts, I sure GM won't let them go to waste and when things improve, who says GM can't bring pontiac back. Hopefully also those pontiac assembly plants will continue to be used for other brands.

Edited April 25, 2009 by sak

[Foxer]

OK, I guess it's time for me to get you all mad at me. The last American car I purchased was a 1967 Pontiac Tempest that had the most irradiating auto-transmission in the world. It would jump out of gear when it got hot. The expert GM mechanics could never fix it. That is the only car I've ever owned that had problems with a major component , thou that is probably just chance. After the 50's and 60's, and purchase of my first "foreign" car I just couldn't go back to the junk Detroit was churning out. Quality, looks and desirability were sorely missing. I totally don't get the Muscle cars.. they are rolling junkyards. They look terrible and are built off the cheapest platforms Detroit had ... I like my cars to turn corners and to survive the time I own it.

The only solution to this problem for American makers ..?? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Build cars people WANT to buy.

[FujimiLover]

OK, I guess it's time for me to get you all mad at me. The last American car I purchased was a 1967 Pontiac Tempest that had the most irradiating auto-transmission in the world. It would jump out of gear when it got hot. The expert GM mechanics could never fix it. That is the only car I've ever owned that had problems with a major component , thou that is probably just chance. After the 50's and 60's, and purchase of my first "foreign" car I just couldn't go back to the junk Detroit was churning out. Quality, looks and desirability were sorely missing. I totally don't get the Muscle cars.. they are rolling junkyards. They look terrible and are built off the cheapest platforms Detroit had ... I like my cars to turn corners and to survive the time I own it.

The only solution to this problem for American makers ..?? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Build cars people WANT to buy.

AMEN BROTHER! I'm with you on that one. I've owned several Honda's since I was old enough to drive and they all have been great. As long as you treat'em right, they'll always bring you back home. I absolutetly love the reliability of my Honda Insight. Speaking of which, the new 2010 Honda Insight is coming soon, and it is a four door version, and look's better than the Prius. However, I've heard it gets around 40 MPG city, and 45 highway. Not as good as my Insight, but not bad for a bigger four door either! I'm glad to see the Japanese cars are still in the game!

[James Flowers]

Here We go again on a subject that has been done to death. Cars come and go and always will. What it boils down to is, He who builds the better mouse trap wins.

[getrdun]

Ya well not to step on any toes but wasn't pontiac basically just a second thought of GM anyhow?

I mean every potiac ever produced was a spin-off of another model in GM's line...........

just my thoughts...chevy was the balls out,pontiac was the little more refined models(more bling)so to speak.

And yes i am a GM man to the end incase you think other wise.

[george 53]

Ya know, I worked for GM, Cadillac specifically, for 32 years. The have ALWAYS been the BEST AMERICAN CAR BUILT! We used to win the JD Powers Quality awards for years. Even the new Buick that replaced the classic Le Sabre were built at my plant. WE, the WORKERS built the BEST car on the road! you guys talk like the japs build america! That makes me ill. wheres the LOYALTY to AMERICA???!!! I said it once I'll say it again, IF GM goes under, SO WILL THE ECONOMY!!!!!! WHO else in this country employes MORE people than the auto industry? NO ONE!!!! Keep buyin foriegn products an soon there won't be an American VIABLE workforce. The union IS the workforce, NOT the management. For 32 years I NEVER VOTED for my international unions LEADERSHIP! I voted for the local pres. my union reps, but NEVER for the INTERNATIONAL LEADERSHIP of the UAW, which was ALWAYS strange to me. The leadership of the UAW is such a CLOSED GROUP of Good 'ol Boys that it's a joke. They've been in bed with the auto makers top brass for so long, they might as well NOT exist anymore. The UAW is just a shell of it's former self. DO you make a fair wage,instead of MINIMUM wage? THANK THE UNIONS! Does OSHA protect you on the job? THANK THE UNIONS. Do you have a better quality of life since the 40's and 50's THANK THE UNIONS! You guys seem to forget that WE the people who went/go to work an start that line up at 6 oclock every morning are JUST like YOU! We just happened to have worked for one of the best unions on earth. I don't understand why everyone wants to blame the unions for GM's situation. roger smith started the downfall WAYYYY back in the late 70's when he became the CEO of GM. He was a BEANCOUNTER, NOT an Automaker. And as such, his greed for the almighty(in his opinion)dollar is what began our decline. I lived a good life,and worked HARD for EVERY CENT I MADE! The union provided me with a safe environment to work in, gave me a fair days pay for a fair days work, and a good retirement package. Now that the results of smiths greed are coming apperent, and people are blaming US! WE DIDN'T chose to buy foriegn, Because WE helped BUILD this country! Would we have become"THE ARSENAL of DEMOCRACY" if we didn't deserve it? The AMERICAN AUTOWORKER has done MORE than most trades to make this country a viable market in the world economy, an now, folks are willing to just let us die! Go to some other country an TRY haveing what we have HERE! It sounds to ME like ALOT of sour grapes an jealosy are out there. I NEVER met a worker who made 40 bucks an hour for tightening lug nuts, as I've seen posted! I WISH! If you didn't have a union that worked for you, thats a shame, but I DID, and I'm PROUD of it! Sounds like some guys are just plain JEALOUS. Too bad. I've said my peice BUT I'm NOT outta things to say to the ones who would hang us out to die. Do YOU'S know any autoworkers from the past 40 years who'll talk bad about our union? I think not,.I just feel bad for the new guys who will hafta give up ALL the benefits we fought for ,and got, just to feed the GREED for that almighty stockholder dollar! By the way, GM MANAGEMENT OWNS MORE STOCK in GM that the general public!

[Aaronw]

As long as they think it is the brand that sells cars instead of the car itself they are doomed. Rather than kill off historic names why not make each unique as they were way back when. Don't sell essentially the same car as Prozac under Chevy, the Zoloft under Buick and the Viagra (with trim to make it appeal to the youth) under the Pontiac name.

It would make more sense to group your sporty cars under one (Pontiac?), your economy cars under another (Saturn), your midsize grocery getters under another (Chevrolet), the upscale sedans under another (Buick?) and finally your luxury cars under Cadillac. Sell SAAB back to the Swedes, nice car but it has no historical ties to the US, or perhaps keep it to target yet another demographic. Consolidate all of your dealerships under the GM name, it is a stupid extravigance to maintain redundant dealerships these days.

There is a benefit to having multiple brand names when it comes to import restrictions, frequently each brand counts seperately against the number imported. That is where we got the high end Japanse luxury brands. If Toyota imported all of their cars as Toyotas they bumped against import restrictions, by splitting off their high end cars it basically allowed them to double the number of cars the could import.

George I understand where you are coming from but I have to ask, is it really better to buy an "American" car built in Canada or Mexico, than to buy a "Japanese" car built by Americans? My Toyota Tacoma was built in the US, in fact in my state (the plant is in Fremont, California) while the Ford F150 I drive at work was built in Canada.

or nissan killing infinity.............

nope not going to happen, and people are selling there hummers and buying caddy's now!

and is gm still selling those ugly a** electric go karts?

i think it was gm that sold them? please correct me if i am wrong!

Ford builds (built?) them too. Both gave away a ton to the government and I can't say I'm impressed with the quality of either. My understanding is they gave them away because they count as production raise their overall fuel mileage ratings.

[Harry P.]

I posted this in case any of you didn't hear the news that Pontiac is finished.

It wasn't meant to be a "Unions are the best thing ever"/"Unions are evil incarnate" debate...