randx0 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) is there a primer on working with these somewhere?I need to do some scratch building that would benefit from the use of metal and was just curious if the usual tools I use will work (Xacto)for cutting and filing or if it will wreck my saw blades and files. I could also use some pointers on soldering as it has been quite some time since I've soldered anything and have forgotten how to . Edited January 2, 2010 by randx0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDO Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Don't use the tools you normally use for plastic. You'll wear them out and make almost no progress. Are you talking about pounding out body panels from sheet metal or using round C-/round-/rectangular-section tubing to make chassis? Both are covered in Gerald Wingrove's books "The Complete Car Modeler" and "The Complete Car Modeler II". Look on Alibris, Amazon, and Abebooks. You will learn a lot by reading them. I have both books. Wingrove is a genius and master craftsman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randx0 Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 Don't use the tools you normally use for plastic. You'll wear them out and make almost no progress. Are you talking about pounding out body panels from sheet metal or using round C-/round-/rectangular-section tubing to make chassis? Both are covered in Gerald Wingrove's books "The Complete Car Modeler" and "The Complete Car Modeler II". Look on Alibris, Amazon, and Abebooks. You will learn a lot by reading them. I have both books. Wingrove is a genius and master craftsman. I am not ready for pounding out body panels I am referring to small simple stuff like leaf springs, grilles for now just gentle curves and basic angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indypete Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I am like you, just starting into working with brass. I have made some leaf springs already and it was fairly easy. I would say that you can use jeweler's saw and files, they are made for metal and that is what I use. I also find my dremel with cut off wheels and grinding bits works well. As for the soldering, I use 60/40 solder because that is what I have around for stain glass work. I have a cheap soldering iron with a chisel tip. Use flux and a rheostat to lower the temp of the iron. Use the least amount of heat you can and still have the solder flow. Hope that helps, have fun. --Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pibull63 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I am like you, just starting into working with brass. I have made some leaf springs already and it was fairly easy. I would say that you can use jeweler's saw and files, they are made for metal and that is what I use. I also find my dremel with cut off wheels and grinding bits works well. As for the soldering, I use 60/40 solder because that is what I have around for stain glass work. I have a cheap soldering iron with a chisel tip. Use flux and a rheostat to lower the temp of the iron. Use the least amount of heat you can and still have the solder flow. Hope that helps, have fun. --Pete yes, indypete, you got the right stuff. been railroadig for the past 20 years, scratchbuilt a few lcomotives from brass. just got back into the cars a few months ago. i've been thinking about hand forming a body, i have to make a small scale set of hammers and try it. i did a gremlin body. i used the frankie schnieder body to get the radius and bends from the roof. the sides are slab. dont look bad though. got it primed, waiting for paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randx0 Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 can you solder dissimilar metals like brass and aluminum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indypete Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 can you solder dissimilar metals like brass and aluminum? Sorry, no. Al does not solder. Copper will accept solder too and yes you can solder brass to copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FujimiLover Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This is an interesting topic, I have a few questions my selfe. Let's say I want to build a roll-cage or a custom exaust system for a model car. How can I bend small diameter aluminum tubing without getting half of it flat? Is there a hobbie'sts tool for doing that? You've seen the big heavy machine that exaust installers have for bending their tubing. Is there something like that for us? Also, how would you "weld" such tiny aluminum tubes together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randx0 Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 Sorry, no. Al does not solder. Copper will accept solder too and yes you can solder brass to copper. Thanks !I think I just need to start soldering junk and learn via trial and error.I suppose I need to go to radio shack for a soldering mat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete J. Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Thanks !I think I just need to start soldering junk and learn via trial and error.I suppose I need to go to radio shack for a soldering mat. If you are planing to do a lot of soldering, you may wish to invest in a resistance soldering unit. They give you extremely fine control of heat and allow you to solder two pieces, very close together without one being de-soldered. You can also solder very small pieces of photo etched together. They are not cheap, but then they do things you just can't do with a soldering iron. Check out the info at Micro mark on them. The model railroaders use the heck out of them for building their brass engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randx0 Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 If you are planing to do a lot of soldering, you may wish to invest in a resistance soldering unit. They give you extremely fine control of heat and allow you to solder two pieces, very close together without one being de-soldered. You can also solder very small pieces of photo etched together. They are not cheap, but then they do things you just can't do with a soldering iron. Check out the info at Micro mark on them. The model railroaders use the heck out of them for building their brass engines. Thank you for the tip.keep them coming if you think of any thing else as I'm sure others could find this info useful as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjim Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Somewhere in my toolchest I have a tubing bender kit. The kit has several different sized tubes that like like a very tightly wound spring. The idea being you put the tube inside and it's not supposed to kink. The old trick of filling the tube with sand before bending doesn't seem to work for me. Check out Micro Mark #60360. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randx0 Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 Somewhere in my toolchest I have a tubing bender kit. The kit has several different sized tubes that like like a very tightly wound spring. The idea being you put the tube inside and it's not supposed to kink. The old trick of filling the tube with sand before bending doesn't seem to work for me. Check out Micro Mark #60360. those are ok for minor bends but I found them hard to use if you make more than one bend . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pibull63 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 the thing i use to join aluminum is epoxy. no, ya cant solder aluminum. any good hobby shop carries a stock of k&s brass sheet and all kinds of shapes. just get a handful, and practice. after a few burnt fingers youll get the hang of it, its not that hard. i recommend getting a good soldering iron, flux and good solder. dont save a nickel buying the cheap stuff, it will show in the end. like my ol' man used to say, the only way yer gonna learn this stuff is to practice. another tip, is to get come tiny c clamps to act as a heat sink when you solder more than one spot. because as you heat your next joint, you will also unsolder what you just did. the c clamp will soak up the excess heat and stop it from spreading. as far as a tube bender, take a look at the one you saw in the muffler shop, and build your own. i made the mandrels ( the round parts that bend the tube) out of aluminum rod from the local metal supply shop. i machined a groove in the center in the lathe. if you dont have a lathe, put your electric drill in a vice, clamp the rod in the chuck, and machine it cown to the shape your looking with a file, whether its a full size file or a small jewelers file, cut a groove in the center so it looks like a pulleydrill a hole thru that to mount it solid an bend the tube around that. if you can give me a couple of days i can post a drawing on how to make one.................steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indypete Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 For tight bends of a roll cage or headers you can also try putting a piece of wire into the tubing. I cut it short of the length of the tube ends, that way I can still fish mouth the ends or fit them as necessary. You can make very tight bends this way without the tubing kinking because the wire supports the bend. I also use mandrels to make smooth bends. I like the model ship builders wooden pulleys, dowel rods, engine pulleys clamped down, pretty much anything I can lay hands on that is the right radius. I have noticed that bends are easier to make the longer tubing is beyond the bend, makes sense, its a longer lever arm. Good luck, Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrojunkie Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Straightline modeler has some metal tips.Also do a search for Roger "Rice man" Lee. He is a fantastic metal modeler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrojunkie Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Here is a link,http://bigyohns.com/S-H-model.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randx0 Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 Here is a link,http://bigyohns.com/S-H-model.shtml That is so sweet.I've seen that car before but not the build up aspect holy cow.thanks for the link! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete J. Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) This is an interesting topic, I have a few questions my selfe. Let's say I want to build a roll-cage or a custom exaust system for a model car. How can I bend small diameter aluminum tubing without getting half of it flat? Is there a hobbie'sts tool for doing that? You've seen the big heavy machine that exaust installers have for bending their tubing. Is there something like that for us? Also, how would you "weld" such tiny aluminum tubes together? One simple tip. If you can't see an open end such as a roll cage or plumbing, don't use tubing. Use solid rod. Just because a piece on a real car is hollow, doesn't mean your model has to have hollow tubing. If you are not planing on actually making a running car, rod bends much better than tubing. The only time you need tubing is on exhausts and intakes where the open end is seen. Same thing with wiring. Small diameter tubing, painted black is easier to manipulate and get to droop just right than than small diameter braided wire. Edited May 11, 2009 by Pete J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randx0 Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share Posted March 7, 2010 It has been a long time since I started thinking about considering the possibilities of working with metals here are some pics of some tools I found and the beginning of my latest foray into working with brass.this thread is intended for questions, suggestions and tips that alot of us have . I found a set like this at sears then found much cheaper at radio shack a different kind of heat sink again at radio shack this is a fiberglass tipped cleaner which can also be used to remove paint. I had heard of these before but not for soldering or electronics so i had been looking in the wrong place a handy tool when you need it. (yep I went to radio shack) this is the hood I'm working on plastic won't do what I want it to do. a frame and mesh before soldering and after soldering next step is to add those curved pieces(seen in the background of some of the other pics) to the forward part of the frame think tractor grille.they will replace the white portion of the hood and basically replace the "louvres". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielG Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 The most important thing to remember when soldering is cleanliness! Polish and degrease the parts and you won't have any problems getting a good joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gramps-xrds Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 I use aluminum sheet to make all kinds of things, fender skirts, moon caps, hoods. scoops and other things. It's not that hard. What I use is .040 insulation jacketing because that's what I have. It can be glued with CA as long as it's been sanded to give it something to bite to. To make a contour in it, you have to used something to burnish it. this will cause it to bend and contour sorta like using an english wheel does. Here's a link to my PB albums. There's one listed as "Makin things from aluminum" If you're interested, check it out. http://s110.photobucket.com/home/Gramps-xrds/allalbums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randx0 Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 I use aluminum sheet to make all kinds of things, fender skirts, moon caps, hoods. scoops and other things. It's not that hard. What I use is .040 insulation jacketing because that's what I have. It can be glued with CA as long as it's been sanded to give it something to bite to. To make a contour in it, you have to used something to burnish it. this will cause it to bend and contour sorta like using an english wheel does. Here's a link to my PB albums. There's one listed as "Makin things from aluminum" If you're interested, check it out. http://s110.photobucket.com/home/Gramps-xrds/allalbums That hood is really nice I will have to give your technique a try is there a more in depth description of the process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Quantz Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I'd love to get into metal work sometime soon. I was given some brass, copper and sterling sheet by a classmate! (the silver will be set aside for jewelry...) But in the meantime I have two questions that might go along with this thread. How can I duplicate some hubcaps for a diorama? Some thin sheet or foil? How can I reproduce a fender from a 65 Mustang without getting into some major metal-work? I tried just cutting one from the kit, but the thickness is a pain to get accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gramps-xrds Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 (edited) I'd love to get into metal work sometime soon. I was given some brass, copper and sterling sheet by a classmate! (the silver will be set aside for jewelry...) But in the meantime I have two questions that might go along with this thread. How can I duplicate some hubcaps for a diorama? Some thin sheet or foil? How can I reproduce a fender from a 65 Mustang without getting into some major metal-work? I tried just cutting one from the kit, but the thickness is a pain to get accurate. Ryan, if I were going to replicate a hubcap or fender, I'd try using the bottom of a cheap throw away roaster pan. It's thin enough to burnish and heavy enough to hold it's shape. That hood is really nice I will have to give your technique a try is there a more in depth description of the process? Randy, I didn't take any in progress pix of making the hood, only doing fender skirts and moon caps. I posted those on another forum. http://thescalesoapb...play&thread=111 http://thescalesoapbox.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=mi&thread=114&page=1 Edited March 9, 2010 by Gramps-xrds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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