Could be the end of F1

[CAL]

Statement by the FOTA, In a historic move, eight F1 teams say they plan to break away and form a new series in 2010.

Since the formation of FOTA last September the teams have worked together and sought to engage the FIA and commercial rights holder, to develop and improve the sport.

Unprecedented worldwide financial turmoil has inevitably placed great challenges before the F1 community. FOTA is proud that it has achieved the most substantial measures to reduce costs in the history of our sport.

In particular the manufacturer teams have provided assistance to the independent teams, a number of which would probably not be in the sport today without the FOTA initiatives. The FOTA teams have further agreed upon a substantial voluntary cost reduction that provides a sustainable model for the future.

Following these efforts all the teams have confirmed to the FIA and the commercial rights holder that they are willing to commit until the end of 2012.

The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA.

The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006. Despite this and the uncompromising environment, FOTA has genuinely sought compromise.

It has become clear however, that the teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship.

These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners. This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders.

The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series.

Note: Statement issued by FOTA on behalf of BMW-Sauber, Brawn GP, Scuderia Ferrari, McLaren-Mercedes, Red Bull Racing, Renault, Scuderia Toro Rosso and Toyota.

[Crazy Ed]

Now this could make for a fun Formula 1 debrief on Speed tonight, "There was an interesting race in Turkey 2 weeks ago, BUT DID YOU HEAR THIS??????". At which time David Hobbs sez" When Bernie heard this his head went KA-BLAMO".

Now what we need is the folks at Montreal, Laguna Seca and say Road America to invite the FOTA folks over for a chat!

Ed Erbeck Jr

[MikeMc]

Maybe they will go away.....

SCCA Real Racing!!!!!

[Bernard Kron]

Here's a short list of that would make a very interesting "instant Grand Prix" series. Many of these tracks invested millions in upgrades only to be either told that Bernie's Formula One Management was no longer interested or were handed financial demands that made hosting F1 ruinous.

Recently disenfranchised, disgruntled or disillusioned former F1 tracks:

1. British Grand Prix at Silverstone
   
2. French Grand Prix at Magny Cours
   
3. Canadian Grand Prix at Montreal
   
4. US Grand Prix at Indianapolis
   
5. Italian Grand Prix at Imola (Ferrari’s “home trackâ€)
   
6. Mexican Grand Prix at Mexico City (Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez)
   
7. Austrian Grand Prix at A1-Ring (Recently refurbished to F1 level by owners Red Bull)
   
8. Portuguese Grand Prix at Jerez
   

Tier 2 – Underutilized tracks:

1. Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka (available in 2010 alternating with Fuji)
   
2. German Grand Prix at Nurburgring (available in 2010 alternating with Hockenheim)
   

Unhappy campers believing they pay too much:

1. Chinese Grand Prix at Shanghai*
   
2. Belgian Grand Prix at Spa Francorchamps
   
3. Monaco Grand Prix (Per SpeedTV just announced they won’t run GP without Ferrari)
   

Jealous rivals looking for their chance:

1. Australian Grand Prix at Sydney (or Adelaide?)**
   

*In November 2008 the BBC reported a senior race official, Qiu Weichang, as suggesting that the loss-making race might be canceled. Following a similar announcement about the French Grand Prix, Qui Weichang said that the race's future was under consideration, and a decision would be made in 2009.

** March 12, 2008 - With all the furor over the start time of the Australian Grand Prix, it is no surprise that another Australian city has said it would be prepared to consider Bernie Ecclestone’s wishes about having a night race. … New South Wales state premier Morris Iemma has said that in light of the current dispute which sees current F1 race organisers refusing to install expensive lighting equipment to the Albert Park circuit, he would look into whether he could change the infrastructure at Sydney’s Eastern Creek circuit to allow it to hold an F1 race. The circuit is currently used for the A1GP series.

The point here is that the raw material is there to mount a compelling alternative series if it were necessary. The news of a potential split is disastrous for CVC, the F1 rights holders, who must pay hundred of millions of dollars each year in interest on their purchase of the rights from Bernie Ecclestone. Ecclestone himself, who still holds a share of those rights, is their point man and now will feel tremendous pressure to broker a deal. If there is a potential sacrificial lamb it is most likely Max Mosley, who has yet to declare whether he will stand down in October as head of the FIA as he once promised.

Road racing and open wheel racing at the highest commercial levels were destroyed by splits in the North American Sportscar and Indy Car series and the same can be said to have happened in the sportscar ranks in Europe. One can argue that runaway expenses have seriously compromised high level drag racing in the Funny Car and Top Fuel ranks so the issue of costs is equally dangerous in its potential to destroy a series. Even the success of NASCAR has been called into question as it has become an increasingly bland and irrelevant spec car series in a desparate attempt to control costs and maintain "The Show". And finally, one can question whether FOTA could actually mount a Grand Prix series in a very short amount of time, despite the blue ribbon list of tracks shown above.

Bottom line, F1 has the potential to be latest victim in motor racing of greed, ego and financial unrest. Formula One has never been a spec car series and now, in a world where almost all motor racing except for the Le Mans series and at the amateur and club ranks are effectively spec car series, it is battling for its own survival as it prepares to commit hara kiri.

Edited June 19, 2009 by gbk1

[CAL]

FIA stewards are asking for Max's resignation, now.

[Fletch]

As a relative new comer to F1 it is distressing to see and hear the ciaos going on in F1. But, when listening to the cost of a single seat to watch the Monaco Grand Prix you had to wonder how much longer can it continue before the Manufactures throw up their hands and say enough. I agree Bernard the last thing we need is another spec car series. They are now talking about cubic inch and how much the blower can be over driven for the fuel cars in NHRA, stating that it will make the motors more reliable and the cars safer. How do you make a car that produces 8000 HP at the hit of the throttle safe?

For FOTA to bring their proposed series to Indy would require a great deal of mending fences. Unfortunately, they will be stuck with the legacy of the debacle of the US GP for many years to come. But, then again if race fans in the US will flock by the thousands to watch someone race a lawn mower the FOTA series just may flourish.

Let's hope so.

[Seattle Mike]

Regardless of the outcome of this whole episode, it will probably be the final goodbye for Mosley. It doesn't seem to matter which race series you look at, if the FIA is involved it has problems. Because they couldn't bear to have the Group C and GT class sportcars be more popular than F-1, the rules were made more and more ridiculous, causing everyone involved to get out. That is the main reason the ACO chose to thumb their noses when it came to the rules for LeMans. They are now setting the rules for the European and American LeMans series, both of which are doing quite well. They understand that the fans want to see the best cars and best drivers. They realize that the teams need to be free to innovate within the bounds of the rules. They also make sure that the drivers are accessible to the fans during race weekends. When was the last time any fan ever got close to a F-1 driver? I say good riddance to the pompous fools at the FIA and Bernie Ecclestone - they've done nothing but line their own pockets at the expense of the sport they were supposed to nurture!

[MonoPed]

...US Grand Prix at Indianapolis...

Never did like what they did to Indy to make the infield roadcourse and all the other stuff they did to appease the "Bernie & MAx" show. Any running of a USGP should be a natural terrain course like Watkins Glenn, Road America, Laguna Seca, ect.

[stevegt738]

We have not seen the end of this yet. Bernie has been suspiciously quiet while all this has been going on, has not had much to say at all. As for Max, he has got what he has wanted for ages. First he managed to get rid of Ron Dennis as he could not control him, now he looks like he has got rid of Ferrari. He does not like any one having power or influence in "his" F1. He would get rid of Bernie too if he thought he would survive the stoush.If they do split, who is going to make the engines. I don't know if Cosworth will be geared up to do an entire field yet.

ITV-F1 have a report about the financial side of a potential split, and how much the FIA stand to loose ($2.6 billion) in investment money from the teams, manufacturers naming sponsers. There is also speculation that TV companies and circuit promoters will want to renegotiate their contracts as all the big teams and names will be gone, so they wont want to pay as much. Fans will not pay the stupidly high seat prices if their favourite drivers/teams are not in the show. Think of the fan base Ferrari have world wide, even when they are in a slump their core fan base is the largest of any F1 team, and has been for decades.

This year is my 30th continuous season as a F1 nut, and this is probably the most acrimonious situation I have seen in all that time. I don't Max, and possibly Bernie, thought the teams would stick together. I think he has made a major miscalculation. Well we will see how it all plays out in the future. I personally would like to see Max kicked out and Bernie retire. Then we might see some sanity prevail. But I'm not holding my breathe waiting.

[CAL]

We have not seen the end of this yet. Bernie has been suspiciously quiet while all this has been going on, has not had much to say at all. As for Max, he has got what he has wanted for ages. First he managed to get rid of Ron Dennis as he could not control him, now he looks like he has got rid of Ferrari. He does not like any one having power or influence in "his" F1. He would get rid of Bernie too if he thought he would survive the stoush.If they do split, who is going to make the engines. I don't know if Cosworth will be geared up to do an entire field yet.

ITV-F1 have a report about the financial side of a potential split, and how much the FIA stand to loose ($2.6 billion) in investment money from the teams, manufacturers naming sponsers. There is also speculation that TV companies and circuit promoters will want to renegotiate their contracts as all the big teams and names will be gone, so they wont want to pay as much. Fans will not pay the stupidly high seat prices if their favourite drivers/teams are not in the show. Think of the fan base Ferrari have world wide, even when they are in a slump their core fan base is the largest of any F1 team, and has been for decades.

This year is my 30th continuous season as a F1 nut, and this is probably the most acrimonious situation I have seen in all that time. I don't Max, and possibly Bernie, thought the teams would stick together. I think he has made a major miscalculation. Well we will see how it all plays out in the future. I personally would like to see Max kicked out and Bernie retire. Then we might see some sanity prevail. But I'm not holding my breathe waiting.

That's because he doesn't really have anything to say about. Max put Bernie in his place at the end of last yet and has been quiet since.

I think he's just waiting for the storm to pass and pick up the pieces, only if Max is swept away.

[Bernard Kron]

Actually, Bernie has had something to say about a possible FOTA breakaway. Last week (12th of June) he had this to say about the matter:

"If they do try to set up their own series - and I don't think they will be able to - there are big problems ahead for them," he told the Daily Express.

"Apart from my contracts with teams, if somebody went to any of our contracted people, companies, television contractors, we would view it very seriously.

"That would be inducement to breach contracts and I don't do that myself so I won't stand back and let it happen. Any action could run to hundreds of millions of pounds, who knows how much?"

So, at the least, the FOTA breakaway would have to act in a "clean room" environment, making sure to steer clear of non-competes that caterers, track organizers, local suppliers, TV contractors, etc. might have with Formula One Management.

In other matters related to a possible breakaway, virtually all the major drivers in F1, all of which drive for FOTA teams, have been giving interviews confirming they are following their teams wherever they go (away from F1 in the event of a breakaway series). This ncludes Hamilton (McLaren and current world driver's champion), Button (Brawn and current championship leader) Alonso (Renault), Raikkonen and Massa (Ferrari), Webber and Vettel (Red Bull), Trulli (Toyota) and Kubica (BMW).

Additionally two of the teams who applied for F1 berths under the FIA budget cap rules, Lola and N. Technology, have withdrawn there applications. Also, there are indications that two of the most well funded and experienced applicants to the 2010 FIA series, Campos Racing and Prodrive , teams that were mysteriously passed over in the initial selection, have inquired as to whether they would be welcome in a FOTA breakaway series. McLaren's Martin Whitmarsh has said that additional teams would be most welcome in such a series.

Lastly, and perhaps quite significantly, last Friday the European Automobile Manufacturer's Association (ACEA), had this to say about the current situation:

"The ACEA members support the activities and objectives of the Formula One Teams' Association to establish stable governance, clear and transparent rules which are common to all competitors to achieve cost reductions including a proper attribution of revenues to the F1 teams, in order to deliver a sustainable attractive sport for the worldwide public.

"Unless these objectives are met, the BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Toyota along with the other teams are determined to find an alternative way to practice this sport in a manner which provides clarity, certainty of rules and administration, and a fair allocation of revenues to the competing teams. "

The ACEA was founded in 1991 and represents 15 European car, truck and bus manufacturers at EU level.

Its members are BMW Group, DAF Trucks, Daimler (Mercedes Benz and thus McLaren), FIAT Group (Ferrari), Ford of Europe, General Motors Europe, Jaguar Land Rover, MAN Nutzfahrzeuge, Porsche, PSA Peugeot Citroën, Renault, Scania, Toyota Motor Europe, Volkswagen and Volvo.

So, it looks to me like Max Mosley is facing some pretty heavy weather going forward. The FOTA teams have shown a great deal more unity in this matter than many expected, Bernie Ecclestone must now huddle with his bankers (CVC) and see whether it's truly worth it to ante up another level or whether it's perhaps better to step away from the brink....

Edited June 19, 2009 by gbk1

[stevegt738]

Bernard, that ACEA list is interesting, I was not aware of how many companies were involved, thanks for that. That would be most of the major companies of Europe would it not. The Bernie statement I had read, but by Bernies usual standards he has been silent. Your observation about him and his bankers might be pretty close to the mark.

The FIA have announced they are starting legal proceedings against Fota , and then in the next Max interview he says that Fota need F1 and F1 needs the big teams, so who knows what sort of politics are going on inside of the FIA at the moment. I sure don't, and we have to rely on the accuracy of the press reports as well. And I think we all know how fanciful they can be at times.

Anyway it's another weekend of racing, and the Redbulls look good after Friday practice sessions. It is nice to have different teams on top for a change.

[Dingo]

The only way this is going to work out for everyone is for Ecclestone to drop his "out of this world" fee he charges all the F1 teams to compete in his races, if he thinks that they ( the F1 teams who have broken or R going to break away) to pay and keep on paying him those high fees he ask then he's got another think coming, I think they R doing this to let him know that enough is enough. Now I will be the first to say I don't know a lot about F1 and that this is only my opinion so if someone out there has any idea of wot is really happening and has got it straight form the horses mouth then I say let him speak now or for ever hold his piece. We need to know wot is going on, well at least those who have an interest in it anyway. Me excluded F1 is not my bag really.

Dingo

[Bernard Kron]

The only way this is going to work out for everyone is for Ecclestone to drop his "out of this world" fee he charges all the F1 teams to compete in his races...

If I have my facts right, the money stream starts with Formula One Management (FOM, run by Bernie Ecclestone and owned by the investment bank group, CVC Capital Partners) which charges the track owners, the TV companies and various other users of the F1 brand. FOM then pays abut 50% of that to the teams under the old 1998 Concorde Agreement, which has lapsed and under which FOM actually was supposed to pay them about 35%. A few years back this was upped to 50% to keep the teams happy. As part of this sum, along with appearance money, the teams share in a prize pot based on how well they do in each race down to 10th place, which is why you see back markers fighting so hard down around 12th or so. The FIA (headed by Max Mosley) gets an annual multi-million dollar fee, too, for administering the rules and running the actual event. So the real problem in terms of "out of the world fees" that Bernie charges may be what he expects to get from TV companies and track owners. Certainly, the track owners are unhappy and many, like Tony George at Indianapolis, and the French Government at Magny Cours, and now Damon Hill and the BRDC at Silverstone, have walked rather than pay up. Thus the phenomenon of the national prestige races with very low attendance such as the recent Grands Prix of Turkey, Bahrain, China, etc.

At the end of day the ones really holding the bag in this whole mess may turn out to be CVC. FOM has annual revenues of about 750 Million USD which it uses to fund its operations, pay the teams, the FIA, and then pay any profits to CVC. CVC in turn then uses that money to pay interest on the various bonds it holds which were used to fund the purchase of the F1 Commercial Rights from Ecclestone, and then retire the debt it holds. So far things have worked pretty wel. CVC bought the F1 rights on the cheap from various now-bankrupt entities earlier this decade. But with the pressure on to charge the track owners less, maintain some level of profitability for the FOM and the teams, and pay the FIA, the money flowing to CVC may be sharply reduced. Unfortunately the interest on the bonds will not change. So these are very delicate times for CVC and by extension their front man, Bernie Ecclestone. If the major teams, and most importantly, the drivers, leave, so does the value of the F1 brand. Everyone but the fans and the track owners has been feeding heavily at the money trough and now they must all find a way to survive on less, one way or another.

So I think the real "victims" in all this have always been the fans. The ticket prices keep going up and the politics keep getting uglier while silly modifications to the rules keep compromising the series more and more and their favorite iconic races and tracks keep disappearing and replaced by obscure events in developing countries which more and more are drawing tiny crowds. Despite all this the racers still try to do the best they can and get as much of the money as they can for their efforts. The racing, somehow, has remained at an exceptionally high level. But if the attendance at Shanghai, Monaco and Turkey this year is any indication, the fans aren't happy and they are voting with their wallets...

Edited June 20, 2009 by gbk1

[Nick F40]

Maybe they will go away.....

SCCA Real Racing!!!!!

HELL YEAH!!!!! How it should be. See I knew there was another one with us!

I knew either me or Chris would post this up Man, first wanting to go over to LeMans racing and now this? I say good, as much as I love F1 and the racing, with how it's been lately good and I think this will bring the racing and tracks back. I wish they ran at the "when the ran there" tracks. For the US GP, Watkins is too bumpy but Laguna would be insane, to see them throught the corkscrew but Road America is so fast and them there would be a heck of a race. Basically you guys said what I was going to but we need real racing back. But yeah the FIA seems to screw everything up that has the name associated with it. I want to see Max and Bernie get in a hissy fit over this. It's just like that thread I started, they don't have a clue do they?

Edited June 20, 2009 by Nick F40

[Bernard Kron]

... I wish they ran at the "when the ran there" tracks. For the US GP, Watkins is too bumpy but Laguna would be insane, to see them throught the corkscrew but Road America is so fast and them there would be a heck of a race...

Couldn't agree with you more. It would cost a fortune to pull off because so many of these tracks are dangerous and would need to be upgraded, original rights of way purcxhased and restored, etc. But consider this for a moment:

Classic Circuits (The Greats)

Australian Grand Prix – Bathurst (Mount Panorama Circuit)

Austrian Grand Prix – Österreichring (Original Zeltweg Configuration)

Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps

Brazilian Grand Prix – Interlagos

Canadian Grand Prix – Mosport

French Grand Prix – Le Castellet (Circuit Paul Ricard full length configuration)

German Grand Prix – Nurburgring Nordschleife full length configuration

Italian Grand Prix - Monza

Japanese Grand Prix – Suzuka

Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, Mexico City

Monaco GP - Circuit de Monaco, Monte Carlo

South African Grand Prix – Kayalami

US Grand Prix East - Watkins Glen

US Grand Prix Central - Road America

US Grand Prix West - Laguna Seca

The Modern Classics and Some Alternatives (*)

Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai International Circuit

Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang International Circuit

Spanish Grand Prix - Circuit de Catalunya

Turkish Grand Prix - Istanbul Park

*Australian Grand Prix – Phillip Island Grand Prix Circuit or Albert Park

*Canadian Grand Prix – Circuit Gilles Villeneuve Montreal

*Austrian Grand Prix – A-1 Ring

If all were run (less the alternatives) this would total 19 races, two more than the current 17. Also note that all the continents are represented. In the cases of Kayalami, the Österreichring and even Spa it may be impossible to reproduce the old circuit but the modern versions might suffice. In the case of the Nurburgring Nordschleife, if the safety issues could be overcome (mainly due to its huge length) it could be argued that what would result would be the ultimate road race in the modern era.

The modern circuits were listed because they are all driver favorites for one reason of another. Sadly, the Turkish Grand Prix might have to go because it never draws enough people.

Obviously this is just a dream, but the modern F1 types could do far worse than to reach for the ideal of a global championship based on the greatest racing circuits in the world.

Dream on….

[Nick F40]

I love this thread, I saw the article and fully aware but it's funny, this is coming up on EVERY automotive forum I go to. I just think it's funny, how this is even coming to be. I have loved sports car racing and road courses and F1, ever since I was born. My first time at Summit Point, I was hooked 100% for life, nothing else is better. Those guys are real racers, running there cars while still having a job.

I agree with you, those tracks would be mental but a lot of "safety" some good and mostly bad and uneeded but it would be sweet, Road America I think would be the best for F1......

[Zoom Zoom]

It's about time! I have no idea how they'd pull off having an entirely new series in 2010, but anything w/o Max or Bernie has to be 1000% better. This enema has been a long time coming.

[Nick F40]

I was wondering when you were going to post

[stevegt738]

Bernard, thanks for easy to understand clarification of how the financial side is run, even though I knew most of it I could not explain it as clearly as you did.

Your track lists are cool, but Bathurst is just to wild. I have ridden a bike around there a few times and it's plain scary in places, especially going into Skyline. And the drop down into Forest Elbow is insane. It's so steep that the only other place I can think of that is similar is the Cork Screw at Laguna. I would love to ride that circuit.

Phillip Island is of the planet on a road bike. the last time I rode there, the bike I was on was almost Valve bouncing the whole way around it is so fast.

Road America would be good, used to watch the Champ cars race there, when we had coverage here.

[bigphoto]

Never did like what they did to Indy to make the infield roadcourse and all the other stuff they did to appease the "Bernie & MAx" show. Any running of a USGP should be a natural terrain course like Watkins Glenn, Road America, Laguna Seca, ect.

The roadcourse at MIS would be nice to see re-open for something like this!!