Meat n' Taters

[GrandpaMcGurk]

Hi gang, TDR asked me if I would run some of these new products through the ringer, I was a little reluctant at first because I'm one the group behind TDR, but when the other partners said "call it like you see it" I agreed.

Let's get started with understanding that these are not injected molded or cast parts. They are printed pieces....yeah, when I first got involved with this technology I scratched my head and went, huh?

All that said, I'd like to invite any of you to ask questions..offer comments or just shoot the breeze about this stuff.

What I'm trying to do with this thread is to give any of you that want to know what you are paying for, a place to ask questions before you try something that is brand new to many of us.

These are the pieces in the XK engine kit, there are 44 total.

This version has the Weber style carbs....Stock carbs will be available soon for the purists. This will be a custom build so I'm cool with the side drafts.

I'm thinking about adding a turbo just for giggles...not sure yet.

Edited December 1, 2009 by GrandpaMcGurk

[Harry P.]

The first thing that comes to my mind is... how does this material behave as compared to styrene or resin?

[GrandpaMcGurk]

Here's a few pics of the parts I'll be dealing with first, I used large photos so that you can see the texture and detail in the parts.

Note that bolt holes are printed into the pieces......there are corresponding holes in the part it mates to. For you guys that are going to detail to the max...these holes can be drilled out and metal hardware added. No need to index......the holes line up pecfectly from part to part. Also notice the bracing the desingers have added to strengthen and stabilize the part during printing.

TDR's design team is incredible!

Edited December 1, 2009 by GrandpaMcGurk

[GrandpaMcGurk]

Harry...good question. I'll cover the advantages and the draw backs soon, we don't want to be comparing apples to oranges so let's just compare them side by side as we go along. Hopefully we can all learn something as we mess with this stuff.

[george 53]

Ok Don, I went to the website, but it didn't tell my HOW the parts are made. If they're NOT injecteion molded, and they AREN'T cast, is this the type of machine Jay Leno used to produce parts for a Maxwell he was restoring on his Leno's Garage? And if it IS, How can you sell the parts so reasonably? I thought this was a VERY expensive procedure. Or has TDR just worked out the bugs? That Carburator kit looks like it just may be the Cat's Pajamas! REALLY NICE!!!

[GrandpaMcGurk]

I'm not one to say do this or that, this is just the way I'm doing it at this particular point in time. You guys may want to take a different approach.

I want to use the inherent surface texture to my advantage, after all these are supposed to be cast parts (real world) not machined from billet.

I'll go back now that I have a couple coats of hi-build primer on and lightly sand the surfaces...with any kind of luck I'll have a believable cast surface look while maintaining the built in details.

[arick]

Hey George, thats an excellent question. What follows is a modellers version of how we produce our parts.

We start with a CAD design. The initial process involves designing and building a 3D model on a computer screen. Once we are satisfied that everything is properly sized and shaped, and more importantly, that the parts are an exact fit, we produce the raw part in a process called Rapid Prototyping.

Our products are made from a composite of plaster and epoxy resin. The 3D digital model is sliced into many layers .004" thick and sent to a printer a layer at a time. The print head goes back and forth like your HP deskjet paper printer, printing a cross section of the model on each new layer. When the parts come out of the printer they are composed of plaster/binder. Binder is sprayed on the layer of powder instead of ink. The parts are then brushed off and dipped in epoxy which gives the parts extra strength.

This method creates an exact fit (we also use braces and locating pins) and unlike resin, there is no warpage. The finish is slightly sandcast, but is easily smoothed. Don will explain that in his Jag engine build. This product accepts CA glue and paint without any problems.

You're right George, what we do is exactly what Jay Leno does, only on a much smaller scale.

I hope this answers your question.

[george 53]

THANK YOU,Rick. It was REALLY something to see it being done on his show. They actually made a working cresent wrench that totally amazed me! LOOKS like your imagination could be the only limit! WOW!!!!

[arick]

THANK YOU,Rick. It was REALLY something to see it being done on his show. They actually made a working cresent wrench that totally amazed me! LOOKS like your imagination could be the only limit! WOW!!!!

Hey George, don't forget that "your" imagination also helps us decide what products to develope next.

[GrandpaMcGurk]

That pretty much sums up "how it's done".

Thanks Rick, you mentioned CA in your post...I'm glad you did.

Gang, put away those squeeze tubes and brush on "Model Car Cements". Those adhesives are of little use on this material.

CA or epoxy adhesives are a must.

Edited December 1, 2009 by GrandpaMcGurk

[GrandpaMcGurk]

Our ol' pal Syd built one of these recently, added metal hardware and it came out great. He used factory paint schemes etc. to keep it period correct.

I'm going to the other end of the sandbox and building this one as a hopped up custom engine.......maybe it'll wind up in a stretched "T"?

The first photo is of the stock exhaust headers mocked up on the head.......

This engine is already long and I don't want to make it any longer with add-ons or plumbing. I got to thinking it would be far out to hang a couple of turbos off this thing.

To solve the length issue, I turned the stock exhaust upside down, now I have a place to mount a couple of the TDR turbos. I'll scratch build an inter-cooler with a scoop to mount above the cam covers. I'll grab a bunch of those Plastruct elbows and cobble up the pipes. How 'bout that...nothing added to the length or hanging down interferring with the steering.

[Harry P.]

Is the surface texture an unavoidable by-product of the process? Any way possible to create "smooth" parts?

[GrandpaMcGurk]

Harry, that's what we have to work with until the technology gets a bit better and the prices of the equipment comes down. There are machines out there capable of finish grade parts but the cost would floor you. The texture isn't near as apparent when you have the parts in hand.....the big photos really make it stand out.

Have you had any hands on with this stuff yet?

If not, I could send you a couple of sample parts to do the touchy feel.

[arick]

The surface texture is unavoidable right now Harry, only because we can't yet afford the next gneration RP machine.

However, the good news is that this RP material sands very easily. I'm sure Don's build will include some parts smoothing, but it really takes nothing more than a few minutes with some high build primer and sandpaper and you'll have a very smooth surface.

[Harry P.]

Harry, that's what we have to work with until the technology gets a bit better and the prices of the equipment comes down. There are machines out there capable of finish grade parts but the cost would floor you. The texture isn't near as apparent when you have the parts in hand.....the big photos really make it stand out.

Have you had any hands on with this stuff yet?

If not, I could send you a couple of sample parts to do the touchy feel.

I've only seen whatever you guys have posted, never had anything in person.

[Harry P.]

Do you input/output one piece at a time, or can several be done at once?

In other words, is the process quick enough to be considered "mass production" or is it still a matter of one piece at a time?

[DaytonaTim]

Do you input/output one piece at a time, or can several be done at once?

In other words, is the process quick enough to be considered "mass production" or is it still a matter of one piece at a time?

Hey Harry.

Usually our kits take 2 runs to complete all the parts. So we usually print out 25 or 30 parts at a time.

Also, if you PM me your address, I can send you some free samples of this material. Then you can get a feel for how it works.

Tim

[GrandpaMcGurk]

My next post will get into sanding and prep. Things like the cam covers etc. will be the only parts that get super smoothed. The block etc. as Rick mentioned only takes a few minutes of light sanding.

[Harry P.]

Hey Harry.

Usually our kits take 2 runs to complete all the parts. So we usually print out 25 or 30 parts at a time.

Also, if you PM me your address, I can send you some free samples of this material. Then you can get a feel for how it works.

Tim

Thanks, Tim. PM sent.

[Chuck Most]

I just can't believe it's taken THIS LONG for rapid prototyping technology to enter the model car aftermarket! I've long wondered how well it could work.

[Harry P.]

I just can't believe it's taken THIS LONG for rapid prototyping technology to enter the model car aftermarket! I've long wondered how well it could work.

I think the biggest stumbling block up to now has been the cost of the equipment, which would make the cost of the parts necessarily very high... which in turn limits your potential customer base. I'm sure that as prices for the equipment come down, allowing the prices of the parts to come down, this technology is going to become a big part of the hobby.

[arick]

Hey Chuck! Have you looked at our web site at www.tdrcatalog.com?

Your comments are well found Harry. But, as the old saying goes, "you ain't seen nuthin yet". Wait till you see what our printer spits out next year. Might even be a couple of surprises before Xmas.

[Chuck Most]

Hey Chuck! Have you looked at our web site at www.tdrcatalog.com?

Your comments are well found Harry. But, as the old saying goes, "you ain't seen nuthin yet". Wait till you see what our printer spits out next year. Might even be a couple of surprises before Xmas.

Haven't yet. Will now!

[jbwelda]

hey a real world question here, ive been playing around with my offy and am getting to the point of wanting to primer it...typically with other resin parts i soak them in westleys bleach white to remove any molding compound. usually soak them for a day or so and then hit them with a toothbrush.

is this step necessary with these castings? i dont want them to dissolve or anything!

right now though i wish i had opted for one of these e type motors instead of the offy but lets see how the offy goes together and i may need to buy the xk too!

[Harry P.]

These parts aren't cast, they're actually printed layer by layer in 3-dimensions... so no mold release agent is used.