Urethane Clears

[edward smith]

This question is more for the guys that use urethanes as clear coats. I would like to know which are your favorite brands, PPG? Dupont? Also, availability, can I just pick it up anywhere? Can something be ordered through the internet? Also, mixing ratios, PSI settings and lacquer thinner suggestions. Everything you experienced guys can give me. I have pretty good success with Tamiya Clears but would love to try something new.

[Fuel Coupe]

be prepared for an onslaught of safety posts.

for me I use PPG's house brand, shopline. Its cheap at about $35 a pint quart with activator , shoots really smooth and doesnt collapse or go flat.

2:1 paint to activator shot at 25psi plus it doesnt build so thick that you lose details. I do not thin the shopline urethane.

depending on where you live you can buy it from most automotive paint houses...

personally I think its a great paint...

Edited May 15, 2010 by TxRat

[MikeMc]

I've used the Chroma Clear and the tamiya ts13 also.

Many internet sources sell it..shipping can be an issue though.

I have a good friend who paints 1:1...its his Chroma Clear leftovers I get and it is mixed per the instructions...I shoot at 22 to 25psi

I noticed that your from Maine...the total opposite of where I live.

As a result the info I would give you would be next to useless as the environment is totally different.

But I would say in your area (cold weather / heaters ) the fumes are quite nasty and toxic and much more dangerous than lacquers.

I assume you are using a respirator already.. .if not GET ONE NOW!!!!!!!.If you are venting your booth outdoors the fumes for others

will dissipate. if your shooting in the basement....do not use the urethanes......I shoot a lot of the HOK colors that are urethane...but do not add hardener, just clear it with lacquer, as we are talking models.

The results that urethane clears give you are quick and easy.......but think safety first.

Edited May 14, 2010 by MikeMc

[cruz]

Good question, I too would like to hear more comments on this! I hear of the many ways that modelers go through to use this clear and would love to try it myself some time.

[MonoPed]

Again, RESPIRATOR!!

While great paint to work with, it is dangerous stuff if not used properly (more so than enamels and lacquers), and proper protection used. It's actually easy to shoot, gives really nice results, and doesn't yellow like some other clears do. I've sprayed it over enamels and lacquers, and over decals with no problems.

[Lownslow]

I've used the Chroma Clear and the tamiya ts13 also.

Many internet sources sell it..shipping can be an issue though.

I have a good friend who paints 1:1...its his Chroma Clear leftovers I get and it is mixed per the instructions...I shoot at 22 to 25psi

I noticed that your from Maine...the total opposite of where I live.

As a result the info I would give you would be next to useless as the environment is totally different.

But I would say in your area (cold weather / heaters ) the fumes are quite nasty and toxic and much more dangerous than lacquers.

I assume you are using a respirator already.. .if not GET ONE NOW!!!!!!!.If you are venting your booth outdoors the fumes for others

will dissipate. if your shooting in the basement....do not use the urethanes......I shoot a lot of the HOK colors that are urethane...but do not add hardener, just clear it with lacquer, as we are talking models.

The results that urethane clears give you are quick and easy.......but think safety first.

why not?

[insaneMB]

Your painting a 7" car....I dont think thats gonna kill ya....

[Guest Gramps-xrds]

Your painting a 7" car....I dont think thats gonna kill ya....

That statement goes to show that you know nothing about chemicals. The isocyanate that is used to catalyze that material is cumulative and a hazard even in very small exposures over a period of time.

Now, as to spraying urethane clears. It depends on what brand and the consistancy of the material. I usually use NAPA brand econo. It's reasonably heavy and I thin it a little with lacquer thinner and spray it at 40 to 60 lbs to get smaller droplets. Give it time to flow out and tack up in between coats before spraying the next because it may take longer to set and if you spray the next coat too soon you'll probably get runs.

[insaneMB]

That statement goes to show that you know nothing about chemicals. The isocyanate that is used to catalyze that material is cumulative and a hazard even in very small exposures over a period of time.

Now, as to spraying urethane clears. It depends on what brand and the consistancy of the material. I usually use NAPA brand econo. It's reasonably heavy and I thin it a little with lacquer thinner and spray it at 40 to 60 lbs to get smaller droplets. Give it time to flow out and tack up in between coats before spraying the next because it may take longer to set and if you spray the next coat too soon you'll probably get runs.

Oh contraire...I spray paint for a living. Spraying a model car in your basement is a lot different than painting your car in the garage..

[insaneMB]

I believe you....and with that screen name Mike....C'mon you know Bill is right

I guess when I get a couple thousand post, I'll take your word for it

[MikeMc]

I guess when I get a couple thousand post, I'll take your word for it

??????????

[Ddms]

It produces an amazing finish.

The manufacturers say not to thin it, but that's a 1:1 durability issue. For models, it needs to be thinned or your model will look like it's been dipped in Karo Syrup.

Don't use ordinary lacquer thinner; it can cause curdling. Use BASF R-A UR40 or one of the other medium temp reducers. Auto paint suppliers carry reducers. They probably can't be shipped.

Model or not, I still use the hardener. I would worry that the finish might stay tacky. And it sure can't hurt.

A pro respirator for paint is no big deal. Most paint suppliers, including Home D'poo, sell them for about $40. Cheap, considering the risks of not using one.

Some people, including me, think that urethane clearcoats are too glossy for many cars, especially older ones. The other downside is that they are pure hell to strip. Two-part urethane is the toughest stuff on the planet. If you screw up, it's easier to buy a new kit and start over.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Ddms

[Lownslow]

It produces an amazing finish.

The manufacturers say not to thin it, but that's a 1:1 durability issue. For models, it needs to be thinned or your model will look like it's been dipped in Karo Syrup.

Don't use ordinary lacquer thinner; it can cause curdling. Use BASF R-A UR40 or one of the other medium temp reducers. Auto paint suppliers carry reducers. They probably can't be shipped.

Model or not, I still use the hardener. I would worry that the finish might stay tacky. And it sure can't hurt.

A pro respirator for paint is no big deal. Most paint suppliers, including Home D'poo, sell them for about $40. Cheap, considering the risks of not using one.

Some people, including me, think that urethane clearcoats are too glossy for many cars, especially older ones. The other downside is that they are pure hell to strip. Two-part urethane is the toughest stuff on the planet. If you screw up, it's easier to buy a new kit and start over.

lol wow ive been thinning it with laquer havent had reactions other than after the clear has long dried. but im using it according to spec where you have to thin it with laquer

[Bruno]

I have used a few automotive urethane clears (Nason, Redline, Fusion) all are good enough clears for models and have a 4:1 mix ratio and I never thin it. I just spray one nice even coat. A respirator is indeed a good thing to have, spraying a few models without a respirator will not kill you.

[weasel]

and you still 'sand and buff' the urethane CC, or, is it 'good' as it sits??

like Shane's Mopar..

Edited May 15, 2010 by weasel

[jon halt]

can you shoot the clear through a double action airbrush or would i need to buy a mini spraygun?

[Lownslow]

can you shoot the clear through a double action airbrush or would i need to buy a mini spraygun?

i do it shoots just fine

[novadose71]

I'll start by saying anyone who sprays urethanes in a closed area without a respirator and spray booth is a f,o,o,l..... FOOL......and I'll stand behind that statement 'til I'm 6 feet under.

Urethane clears do give a nice, durable finish, and although I prefer lacquers, I have sprayed several models with it in the past but.........

Don't let someone tell you nothing bad can happen from the overspray/fumes from a "7 inch body", it will hang in the air for extended periods while you breathe it in, then settle on everything creating plenty of oppertunity for everyone in the house to breathe it in as well, including the dust from dried overspray months down the road, which is hazardous too. Urethanes are absorbed through the skin and eyes, and when inhaled they bond and crystalize in your lungs and WILL MOST DEFINITELY build up over time. Will it kill you? Probably not with limited exposure. Will it cause health/breathing issues for you later in life? You bet.

I'm not even going to mention the explosion hazards associated with spraying in the basement next to water heaters, furnaces and the like....oh wait, I just did

I have 20 years of professional experience working around and spraying urethanes, and the training to go with it, and can assure you they are caustic. I get a kick(not really) out of the young guys at work who brag and boast that they can't even smell the chemicals in the air anymore and then try to make me feel less than cool when I try to get them to come to their senses. I can't smell them either but that's because I have a respirator on.

In the end they're YOUR lungs, and it's YOUR decision how you handle these chemicals.......and YOUR decision now will make a difference in the quality of your life when you are old and gray....or sooner.

I got this right from OSHA, and even though it's geared for the workplace it holds true for models....just on a smaller scale ...

Many workers are unaware of the potential hazards that chemicals present in their work environment, which makes them more vulnerable to injury. The following references aid in recognizing and evaluating hazards associated with isocyanates in the workplace.

Isocyanates are compounds containing the isocyanate group (-NCO). They react with compounds containing alcohol (hydroxyl) groups to produce polyurethane polymers, which are components of polyurethane foams, thermoplastic elastomers, spandex fibers, and polyurethane paints. Isocyanates are the raw materials that make up all polyurethane products. Jobs that may involve exposure to isocyanates include painting, foam-blowing, and the manufacture of many Polyurethane products, such as chemicals, polyurethane foam, insulation materials, surface coatings, car seats, furniture, foam mattresses, under-carpet padding, packaging materials, shoes, laminated fabrics, polyurethane rubber, and adhesives, and during the thermal degredation of polyurethane products. Health effects of isocyanate exposure include irritation of skin and mucous membranes, chest tightness, and difficult breathing. Isocyanates include compounds classified as potential human carcinogens and known to cause cancer in animals. The main effects of hazardous exposures are occupational asthma and other lung problems, as well as irritation of the eyes, nose, throat, and skin.

2008

Isocyanates In Paints

Potential hazard:

Inhaling isocyanates may sensitize a person, causing an asthma-like reaction. This reaction may occur

within days of exposure or may take months or years to develop. Once sensitized, a person is likely to

experience recurring shortness of breath upon repeated exposure.

Direct skin contact with isocyanates may cause rashes, blistering and reddening of the skin. Repeated

skin contact may cause skin sensitization.

Exposure to airborne isocyanates can cause eye irritation and temporary blurred vision. Direct contact

with the eye may cause cornea damage

Enjoy

Edited April 23, 2011 by novadose71

[Agent G]

How about clean up? What is the safest way to dispose of left overs?

Laquer thinner, I presume, for the airbrush?

G

[hacker joe]

first off, I paint 1:1 cars for a living and have been for many years. urethanes are great products and I wouldnt use anything else.

please buy the intended reducer for the clear you are using, I know that other stuff works but is it worth taking a chance ruining something you spent all that time and money on for the cheapest component in the process?

shopline is a great clear, cheap & easy to use, and looks great. I highly recomend it.

clean up using lacquer thinner for airbrush or spray guns

[novadose71]

For disposal of leftovers I just let them harden in the mixing cup and throw them out. There are some area's where you aren't s'posed to do this, but it's probably OK on a hobby scale

[Guest Gramps-xrds]

Oh contraire...I spray paint for a living. Spraying a model car in your basement is a lot different than painting your car in the garage..

Well that statement just goes to show how much you know. I also paint 1:1s and worked 29 yrs in a chemical plant that made the catalist for urethanes and believe me when I tell you it still is a hazard even on a model. It's just gonna take it a little longer and in some cases ppl have an instant reaction to it. So before you tell ppl it's safe you should know a little about what you're talking about.

[Bruno]

Well I also paint 1:1 cars, and also models, both using urethane clear. I've been painting 1:1 cars for 20 years now, have not always used a respirator, even though I know I should have, anyway I'm still alive and all is well, even if I'm a smoker on top of that (I know I should quit)

My point is, it's obvious urethane paints are not good for the health, just like any other types of paints. We should always use a respirator when painting. So IMO, it is safe to use urethane clears if;

- you use a good respirator (double cartridge type)

- spray outside or in a garage. I don't and will never spray any type of paint in the house. All the spray painting is done in the garage, with a fan running to send the fumes outside.

Also, remember, we are not painting 1:1 Freightliners 40 hours a week all year long here, we are spraying 1/25 models once or twice a month...

[scalenut]

I use "matrix" brand from the local shop.

[novadose71]

Killer Nova