Am I missing something here?

[Darin Bastedo]

Perhaps we are going at this one all wrong. I think that a national model contest that takes place in a brick-n-mortar location is an impossible task the likelyhood of national participation on a large enough level to make it worth the effort.

Why not propose the Revell/Model Cars Magazine annual nation model photo contest? it would be a photo contest where people would submit their revell based entries electronicly and a penel of judges would reveiw them and pick the winners. Revell gets 4 pages or so of contest coverage in the magazine allong with cross promotion opprtunities. Revell gets mentioned in the magazine every issue to promote the contest, Revll promotes it in their site and slips entry form / subscription cards for model Cars magazine in the kit boxes.

The pizes could be Kits/gift cards, magazine subscriptions etc. in return Revell could use the photos of the winners in national advertizing similar to how featured John MacGowan's 37 Ford wooody GSL winner in their 1991 Catalog. it's a win-win for both the magazine and the model companies and would be very low cost. who knows maybe the other model companies would jump in with contests of their own.

[Harry P.]

If this was done as a photo contest, with the submitted photos becoming the property of Revell/AMT/whoever to use for promotional purposes, and they got a few good high-quality images to use on their website and in ads, and they put a good effort behind getting those images/mention of the contest out there before/during/after the contest then it's a "success." Getting people excited, raising the company's profile in people's minds for a minute, and engaging people to visit the website/submit pictures/interact with the company is what it's about. I think that could be achieved with minimum investment if someone really wanted to do it...

Exactly right. And promotion in MCM (or SA) via ads in the months leading up to the deadline would be a win-win situation for both the sponsor and the magazine. Or as someone else pointed out, the magazine and the manufacturer could be co-sponsors.

My initial point was, model kit manufacturers can raise their profile and breathe some life and buzz into the hobby without spending bazillions of dollars running ads in 1:1 car magazines... which they obviously don't do, due to cost.

[Harry P.]

I gotta say that I'm finding some irony that the person championing this is Mr. "I've-Never-Been-to-a-Model-Contest-in-My Life!"

I'm not looking at this from the point of view of the contest entrant, but from the contest sponsor (the manufacturer).

[sjordan2]

One of the most important things for a brand to do, an industry or any kind of enterprise, is to continually grow the business, and that requires a coordinated program of trying to stir up interest. You can't just sit back and say, "Well, we've penetrated the market as much as we're going to, so let's not do anything new." That's how businesses die.

Contests are probably a good idea IF they're backed by enough properly created and placed publicity to get the message to a broader audience than the hard-core modelers. (For example, getting a little exposure in local news. Could be an interesting story that not everyone knows much about.) Infomercials, properly placed website banner ads and online videos can help, and are far more cost-effective than concentrated print media placement, especially in a niche market like modeling. Takes an experienced marketing department & PR to pull it off, especially in multiple markets.

Model kit company contests? Probably need to have rules that require all entrants to see what they can do with the sponsoring brand's kits (this is legally acceptable in this sort of contest). As alluded to by Art, I doubt that Revell would want to sponsor a contest that could be won by a Tamiya kit. Let's face it – automobile manufacturers don't take title sponsorship in races open to all marques. The Ford Daytona 500? Ain't gonna see it. The scope of the contest could include categories in which the manufacturer has a number of products in addition to cars, such as aircraft, armor, etc.

National hobby shop brand sponsorship, such as HobbyTown USA? Probably makes more sense, since a variety of kit brands could be accommodated. Even though a majority of these stores may be independently owned, they still get the benefits of marketing support from the parent organization – same deal with the independently owned McDonald's stores, which still have franchise agreements to uphold. But individual store participation has to be voluntary, without any coercion, or it's illegal under antitrust laws.

Jointly sponsored contests between a manufacturer and a national retail store? Could probably make the most of a promotional budget.

Best of all, a strong national association with some relatively deep pockets would be the ideal sponsor.

And, while this is not necessarily an obstacle for a large company, contests have a list of legal requirements that lawyers have to draw up (though nothing like random drawing sweepstakes have). One of them is pretty good: in the rules (required), you have to list the judging criteria, and age categories are recommended. It gets a bit complicated when you realize that a few different states have different laws on the subject.

And Darin (you posted your message while I was writing this), I like your idea of a photo contest, but I worry about the quality of the photography and the ability of the judges to see all relevant detail.

Edited June 14, 2010 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

Why not propose the Revell/Model Cars Magazine annual nation model photo contest? it would be a photo contest where people would submit their revell based entries electronicly and a penel of judges would reveiw them and pick the winners. Revell gets 4 pages or so of contest coverage in the magazine allong with cross promotion opprtunities. Revell gets mentioned in the magazine every issue to promote the contest, Revll promotes it in their site and slips entry form / subscription cards for model Cars magazine in the kit boxes.

The pizes could be Kits/gift cards, magazine subscriptions etc. in return Revell could use the photos of the winners in national advertizing similar to how featured John MacGowan's 37 Ford wooody GSL winner in their 1991 Catalog. it's a win-win for both the magazine and the model companies and would be very low cost. who knows maybe the other model companies would jump in with contests of their own.

Yes, exactly!

Maximum bang for minimum buck, that's the whole point.

[Junkman]

Given the cost involved, sponsoring model contests shouldn't hurt the model companies. But it is a little like when a railway company advertises its services inside a railway station - the clientele is already buying what is on offer.

I haven't seen an advertisement of a model company in ages. So yes, I do think that the lack of it is at least part of what is causing their business to decline.

[Jon Cole]

I would think that the easiest way for the manufacturers to go about this, is to let model clubs (who already know a thing or two about how to set up a contest) do the show, and they in turn will sponsor them. This, in turn with a good healthy dose of Harry's "much to gain, little to lose" mantra, may be just the ticket.

Also, if anyone thinks there is a perfect formula for promotion in the 21st century, well I doubt it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[DanielG]

They could try advertizing on TV. Do people still watch TV? Anyhow, I think they leave all advertizing up to the hobby shops. I don't see any hobby ads on the networks.

Edited June 14, 2010 by DanielG

[Harry P.]

Here are a couple of questions that come to my mind. I ask these not because I'm trying to be negative, but because I'm trying to play devil's advocate _ and not the pinball game, either! (The "Simpsons" fans amongst you should get that reference! )

Let's say that Revell decides to sponsor a model contest, be it Internet based, live, whatever. Because Revell is investing its money in the venture, and because the goal is to promote Revell products, only Revell models are eligible.

Modeler A wants to enter a funny car model that uses the chassis from Revell's upcoming Hawaiian '69 Charger, but has an aftermarket resin body decorated with Slixx decals.

Modeler B wants to enter a model that's Revell-based, but which he has totally reworked to the point where it doesn't even resemble the model that's pictured on the box art.

Modeler C wants to enter a model that's Revell-based, but has a large number of parts from AMT kits, as well as a smattering of aftermarket goodies, including a Ross Gibson engine.

My question is ... should these guys all be allowed to enter? And if the answer to that question is no, how do you think they're going to feel about being told they can't?

And, if the answer is yes, how do you think the other contestants are going to feel about them being allowed to enter?

Again, just trying to make the point that I think a venture like this would have about as much potential to create ill will and alienate potential customers as it would to generate positive buzz!

The answer to all of that is incredibly simple.

If Revell sponsors a contest, rule number one is ONLY ENTRIES USING REVELL KITS AND/OR PARTS ARE ELIGIBLE. File that under "Obviously."

If GM sponsored a "Coolest Camaro" contest, would I be mad at GM because my Mustang wasn't eligible to be considered a "Cool Camaro?" Of course not. Would I be so angry at GM for not letting my Mustang be a Camaro that I would swear never to buy a GM car again? Of course not.

And if anyone's feelings are hurt because they can't enter their AMT model into a Revell contest, so be it. The good will, excitement and buzz created by Revell (or whoever) would far outweigh a handful of "disgruntled" modelers. I think it's highly unlikely that anyone would be so incensed that their AMT model couldn't be entered into the Revell contest that they swear off Revell model kits for ever after.

[Chuck Most]

Two words...

Federal Bailout.

Worked for the 'Big' three, why not the little three?

Who needs advertising when you have a federal loan?

[Harry P.]

Two words...

Federal Bailout.

Worked for the 'Big' three, why not the little three?

Who needs advertising when you have a federal loan?

So why are Chrysler and GM still advertising?

[Chuck Most]

So why are Chrysler and GM still advertising?

No idea. Maybe it's like crack to them?

[Scalefinishes]

Harry,

I agree 150%, but you are not the one missing something, it's the model companies that are missing it.

I've done a few class sponsorships at some of the bigger "local" shows, and the exposure can't be beat. All totaled my investment is a bit under $200, but most of my regular customers are coming from those model shows. Definitely a small investment for big gains.

Obviously the big model makers don't need to let people know that they make models, but it never hurts to put out your hand to your customers, and say "Hi".

IMHO,

Jameston

[Harry P.]

So you're saying, then, that it should be limited to only Revell models, and only those built straight from the box?

Wow, that is gonna be one lame contest!

Using only Revell models and/or parts. Nobody said anything about "straight out of the box."

But you're missing my point. The contest itself isn't the point. The point is to get the manufacturer some cheap publicity, possibly a bump in sales, and in general give the hobby a little shot in the arm... all for a very small investment on the manufacturer's part. Bang for the buck.

Look, I'm not saying a manufacturer-sponsored contest will necessarily triple model kit sales. It might not do much at all... but why not give it a try, given the fact that the initial investment would be so low? Why don't the manufacturers actually try something for a change? If it doesn't have earthshattering results, so what? What was lost? Nothing.

How about a cross-promotion with an auto-related video game... a racing game or even Grand Theft Auto. Put a sticker on the video game box to announce the fact that there's a coupon inside good for $XX towards the purchase of any Revell (or whoever) model kit, or a mail in rebate, or a coupon, or whatever. Put a similar sticker/coupon/rebate form/whatever in new Revell kits promoting the video game. Sure, this sort of cross-promotion is a little more involved than a manufacturer-sponsored contest, and would cost some $ up front... but the end result might be worth the initial investment.

Or run a contest via the company website. Click to enter, upload your photos, winners get all sorts of Revell (or whoever) goodies. Cost to the company? Practically zero. Benefits: as word of mouth spreads, increased traffic to their website. That alone is worth the trouble. Throw in a full page ad in SA or MCM promoting the contest and there ya go. Maybe offer the magazine some sort of "co-sponsorship" in the form of ad space and/or logo prominently displayed on their website in exchange for a reduced magazine ad rate. You know... strike a deal, come to some sort of agreement... do something!

There are many other low cost, potential high return things that manufacturers could do to drive consumer interest, awareness of the brand, and possibly generate a few extra sales.

[Chuck Most]

Ever been to a Proboards message board? How much do those little advertising blurbs up across the top of the screen cost? I'd think that would be an effective way of spreading the word. Round 2 and Revell and the others could put some ads in the 1:1 oriented forums as a friendly reminder to the alarmingly large number of people who aren't even aware model kits are still being manufactured!

[Modelmartin]

I think the big problem with all of this talk is who is going to run it? Who is going to plan, organize, run, and promote it? It takes a lot of work from a lot of people whether it is a photo contest or a series of local contests or a true national scope contest.

Mark Gustavson and MANY others put in a lot of hours and cash to make GSL happen. The Kansas City guys put in a ton of time and effort to make the Heartland Classic come off each year and it is a fine contest. There are already many contests around the country that deserve our support. That includes IPMS Regionals and Nationals. They are great events. At this point in time and considering the realities we all face, it is silly to talk of a new contest series of unknwn sponsorship, scope, and organization. It is especially silly when the proposers aren't willing to do the work. I have seen dozens of people come and go at clubs, etc. who have a lot of great ideas for other people to do the work on!

Mike Siegman and a number of others ran the NAMCC for three years. It started in Chicago and moved to Detroit for the second and third years. Mike would have to confirm but I think he just burned out on it and he has a life to live, or at least he did! I made it to the first one and thought it was a great event.

By the way, many of the contests that Car Model Mag ran in the sixties and seventies were photo contests. With digital photography now it makes photo contests a whole lot easier to participate in.

I don't want to be the rain on this parade but let's support the contests that already exist! You too, Harry! It isn't all about you. Enter the contest for the sake of the people who run it. Enter to support and promote the hobby. Your models will inspire other people. Other people's models will inspire you. It's all good so get off your weird high horse and enter or particpate in a contest or NNL.

[sjordan2]

To quote myself from an earlier part of this thread:

"One of the most important things for a brand to do, for an industry or any kind of enterprise, is to continually grow the business, and that requires a coordinated program of trying to stir up interest. You can't just sit back and say, "Well, we've penetrated the market as much as we're going to, so let's not do anything new." That's how businesses die."

I've seen a lot of reasons here why things CAN'T be done, but not much that's constructive. Does anyone have any ideas about how to grow the hobby and support the manufacturers and retailers who make it possible? A photo contest is only one part of the possibilities, but that has a lot to do with photographic skills.

One way that mature industries and companies do this is through new product introductions and line extensions, not just repackaging of older products, and that seems to be a challenge to the kit manufacturers. Maybe Art ot others with connections to the industry have a handle on the kind of research and development the companies do.

Thoughts?

[highway]

I think the big problem with all of this talk is who is going to run it? Who is going to plan, organize, run, and promote it? It takes a lot of work from a lot of people whether it is a photo contest or a series of local contests or a true national scope contest.

Mark Gustavson and MANY others put in a lot of hours and cash to make GSL happen. The Kansas City guys put in a ton of time and effort to make the Heartland Classic come off each year and it is a fine contest. There are already many contests around the country that deserve our support. That includes IPMS Regionals and Nationals. They are great events. At this point in time and considering the realities we all face, it is silly to talk of a new contest series of unknwn sponsorship, scope, and organization. It is especially silly when the proposers aren't willing to do the work. I have seen dozens of people come and go at clubs, etc. who have a lot of great ideas for other people to do the work on!

Mike Siegman and a number of others ran the NAMCC for three years. It started in Chicago and moved to Detroit for the second and third years. Mike would have to confirm but I think he just burned out on it and he has a life to live, or at least he did! I made it to the first one and thought it was a great event.

By the way, many of the contests that Car Model Mag ran in the sixties and seventies were photo contests. With digital photography now it makes photo contests a whole lot easier to participate in.

I don't want to be the rain on this parade but let's support the contests that already exist! You too, Harry! It isn't all about you. Enter the contest for the sake of the people who run it. Enter to support and promote the hobby. Your models will inspire other people. Other people's models will inspire you. It's all good so get off your weird high horse and enter or particpate in a contest or NNL.

A photo contest may or may not take more effort, at least there would be not set-up or tear-down to worry about, let alone club participation. Also, it would offer many more modelers to be able to enter than a local contest. Don't get me wrong I would LOVE to go to a local contest and share the fellowship and see the other works, but THERE ARE NONE close to me anymore. The local club I was a member of always put on a nice show, but it fell by the wayside not because of problems with the show, but the membership itself, and the only other shows somewhat nearby would cost a fortune in diesel fuel for me to drive to! A photo contest would be great for people like me who can't travel far to get to a show because there are none in a reasonablly close distance, or for those who just may not be able to travel, not to mention some of our members who are from "across the pond" or "down under" would have the opprotunity to compete as well.

And as for the comments you made to Harry, I think you need to realize it's not all about you, either, and "get off your weird high horse" and realize that some people, for whatever reason (lack of shows, financial reasons, health issues, etc.) may like to enter or participate in local shows, but are unable to. I wish quite often that both the club and our show was still around, but this and other forums have inspired me to build more again, and builds I have seen here have inspired me and some of the builds I'm posting have been getting much support and are hopefully inspiring other builders as well.

[sjordan2]

I am an advertising agency professional, having worked for clients large and small, from Exxon to the teeny local Knox Area Rescue Ministries. At my more recent, smaller agency, I worked on promotions for many clients; in regard to this discussion, notably for the individual boat builders of Brunswick Corporation (Sea Ray, Boston Whaler, Laguna, Sea Pro, many others).

As individual entities, NONE of those boat building companies was as large as someone like Revell, Tamiya or HobbyTown USA. What they have in common with modeling is:

• A niche market that needs to be broadened.

• An aging and dwindling customer base, plus, in recent times, low demand due to the economy (this second part is something that modeling could take advantage of, with more people spending less for recreation).

Our whole company had a total staff of about 20 people in all disciplines working for a dozen clients every day. Nevertheless, we managed to marshal the manpower of just a few people to create and manage a huge number of promotions, both for the main brand and for their dealers. Each promotion involved the part-time work of about 8 people and outside vendors.

In addition to our brand image and product introduction advertising, we produced special materials for limited-time promotions for each brand, including:

• Advertising in all media, from print to direct mail, e-blasts, online banners, dealer posters, radio and whatever, each customized for individual dealers.

• Event marketing, from weekend dealer demo days with boat tests, entertainment, food and drawings to major boat show displays and press conferences.

These are the kind of things that the model industry could take advantage of if they had strong enough marketing departments and ad/PR agencies. Evidently, they do not. And, I repeat, you do not have to have huge budgets to do this kind of stuff, but you have to invest in marketing.

These are short-term promotional approaches, and they definitely create a bump in sales. But ongoing, coordinated brand marketing is necessary to enlarge the customer base.

[Harry P.]

I think the big problem with all of this talk is who is going to run it? Who is going to plan, organize, run, and promote it? It takes a lot of work from a lot of people whether it is a photo contest or a series of local contests or a true national scope contest.

Mark Gustavson and MANY others put in a lot of hours and cash to make GSL happen. The Kansas City guys put in a ton of time and effort to make the Heartland Classic come off each year and it is a fine contest. There are already many contests around the country that deserve our support. That includes IPMS Regionals and Nationals. They are great events. At this point in time and considering the realities we all face, it is silly to talk of a new contest series of unknwn sponsorship, scope, and organization. It is especially silly when the proposers aren't willing to do the work. I have seen dozens of people come and go at clubs, etc. who have a lot of great ideas for other people to do the work on!

So Revell sponsors an EXISTING contest, then. No logistics, no time spent on their part, all they'd have to do is supply a big banner and a representative or two at the contest. Gee, how hard was that???

The "Revell Heartland Classic"... the "AMT Whatever"... the "Moebius Models NNL"...it's done all the time, especially in sports. Every single bowl game now has a corporate name attached to it. The model companies could do the same regarding existing model contests. In exchange for the publicity gained by being the contest "sponsor" they pony up a few kits or gift certificates to give out as prizes to the winners. The model company gets free exposure, the winners get free kits, people talk about what a cool company the sponsor is... everybody goes home happy, all at basically no cost to the company. You can't find advertising much cheaper than free!

This isn't rocket science! Why are some of you so all-out determined to insist that nothing like this can be done, or nothing can ever work? You guys with your "oh it'll never work" mentality! Sheesh! Thank goodness you guys weren't around to talk Edison out of that crazy "electric light bulb" fantasy that he thought just might work!

[Harry P.]

I don't want to be the rain on this parade but let's support the contests that already exist! You too, Harry! It isn't all about you. Enter the contest for the sake of the people who run it. Enter to support and promote the hobby. Your models will inspire other people. Other people's models will inspire you. It's all good so get off your weird high horse and enter or particpate in a contest or NNL.

Huh???

Who ever said it's "all about me?"

All I'm doing is commenting on Chuck's original post in Rands and Raves, where he questioned why model companies don't run ads in 1:1 car magazines. I'm coming up with ideas for the kit makers to advertise in less expensive, even FREE ways. How do you get the impression that it's "all about me?"

And no, I'm not on any "weird high horse" either.

[highway]

You guys with your "oh it'll never work" mentality! Sheesh! Thank goodness you guys weren't around to talk Edison out of that crazy "electric light bulb" fantasy that he thought just might work!

Yeah, but it was probably their relatives that was telling Edison that the crazy "electric light bulb" fastasy would never catch on, and they probalby did the same thing with Bell about that crazy "phone" thing!

[Harry P.]

I have to agree with Ken if that indeed were the case. I know that TamiyaCon only required that the model be based on a Tamiya kit, but that parts from other manufactuer's kits &/or the aftermarket could be combined with the base Tamiya kit to create the model.

Interestingly enough, if this is such a "great" idea, (which I don't think it is BTW), why doesn't Tamiya do it anymore!?!

Don't know... but I'd be curious to find out.

[mikemodeler]

If I remember correctly, Michaels had their Saturday program "The Knack" where you could show up and do a make & take of a Revell snap tite kit. I don't know how successful it was but I have noticed that it was not a part of their plans for 2010. Not knowing whose decision it was to not continue it makes it difficult to determine whether Revell or Michaels would want to be a part of something similar in the future.

I think a Hobby Lobby or Michaels could be swayed to join in on a contest as they are already selling kits and supplies. Not sure how far to take the contest idea at the stores but they do have meeting rooms and are great sources of supplies and it could be a family thing. Might be able to get cross-promotion with other companies/categories. Might be able to offer coupons for future purchases (Michaels already does this) but it does get some people to come back.

I think a contest for ALL MODELS would be better received by the folks at Revell or AMT and could work, just need to get some folks involved from all angles (IPMS, model mags, model companies, large clubs etc).

[Darin Bastedo]

How about a cross-promotion with an auto-related video game... a racing game or even Grand Theft Auto. Put a sticker on the video game box to announce the fact that there's a coupon inside good for $XX towards the purchase of any Revell (or whoever) model kit, or a mail in rebate, or a coupon, or whatever. Put a similar sticker/coupon/rebate form/whatever in new Revell kits promoting the video game. Sure, this sort of cross-promotion is a little more involved than a manufacturer-sponsored contest, and would cost some $ up front... but the end result might be worth the initial investment.

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