It's sadhow the owners of original shelby Cobras baby their cars and don't drive them.

[Darin Bastedo]

This is CSX2521, a car that I'm very familiar with it's the first Cobra I every saw close up, and is originall from my hometowm. here is her new owner giving it a work out.

looks like fun huh? Carroll would be proud!

[Joe Handley]

Proud .........The old man would be right there with him wanting to have the next go at it

[highway]

Proud .........The old man would be right there with him wanting to have the next go at it

I don't think any truer words could be spoken!!!

[Joe Handley]

Either that, or he would have one of his own cars there and playing right along with him

[whale392]

Driving it in the rain, ok. But putting a pimply-faced kid behind the wheel of a car such as that and doing 360* burnouts is working it and something to be proud of? NOT.

How about putting it up on the street every day or really thrashing it at an open-track day or HPD event? burn-outs in a cul-de-sac.........big deal. I can (and do) that with my 1991 Mustang GT........should someone be proud that I 'work' the car?

And for the love of God; will someone shut that yappy little dog up?

Edited December 12, 2010 by whale392

[Darin Bastedo]

Driving it in the rain, ok. But putting a pimply-faced kid behind the wheel of a car such as that and doing 360* burnouts is working it and something to be proud of? NOT.

How about putting it up on the street every day or really thrashing it at an open-track day or HPD event? burn-outs in a cul-de-sac.........big deal. I can (and do) that with my 1991 Mustang GT........should someone be proud that I 'work' the car?

And for the love of God; will someone shut that yappy little dog up?

Actually that "pimply faced kid" is an accomplished driver. I'm guessing you somehow think that there should be an age limit for cars like this. Lewis Hamilton was only 23 years old when he won his first FI race. would you call him a pimply faced kid and tell him he shouldn't drive a Cobra. Jim Blue, the owner of this car does drive it regularly on the street as well as his other car, a 1959 Porsche Carrera GT Speedster.

[Darin Bastedo]

Here's som shots of CSX2521 in it's previos life in Central NY before it's restoration and it's move to Hawaii.

[Cato]

Well there's two sides...

With '60's era Cobras trading (infrequently) in excess of $300K (small blocks) you will find few being abused like this. Raced, shown, autocrossed-yes. But clown-show, kid-stuff like this is a poor way to preserve the less-than 700 cars that still exist. And driving in a monsoon causes moisture damage that leads to cut and weld repairs to correct. And originals were crappy bare steel in many places. Even with the skinny tires on this one, those spokes bend like pretzels on expensive to replace wheels.

My own replica which I built 25 years ago, has been drag raced, open tracked, autocrossed and street driven but NOT used for clown smoke displays. To me the real fun is running 11 second quarter miles and feeling what the car was meant to provide. To watch a 14 second car do donuts is just lame to me. It's missing the point of the car's legend.

[ra7c7er]

Actually that "pimply faced kid" is an accomplished driver.

Accomplished in what way? I can't find anything about him other than he traded a 206 GT for this car. A kid that young with enough money to have cars like that is either playing with his dads toys or his dads money.

I know a bunch of 15 year old farm boys that can pull burnouts like that. The car is really cool though. It must be awesome to have the connections to be able to do pointless burnouts in those cars. If that kid really wants to show off his skills he needs to head to a track day then lets see what he can do.

I also don't like people that buy nice cars and don't do anything with them. It annoys me more though when i see a Mustang or a Corvette doing 15 under the speed limit than when I see a nice classic car sitting in a garage.

Edited December 12, 2010 by ra7c7er

[Darin Bastedo]

Well there's two sides...

With '60's era Cobras trading (infrequently) in excess of $300K (small blocks) you will find few being abused like this. Raced, shown, autocrossed-yes. But clown-show, kid-stuff like this is a poor way to preserve the less-than 700 cars that still exist. And driving in a monsoon causes moisture damage that leads to cut and weld repairs to correct. And originals were crappy bare steel in many places. Even with the skinny tires on this one, those spokes bend like pretzels on expensive to replace wheels.

My own replica which I built 25 years ago, has been drag raced, open tracked, autocrossed and street driven but NOT used for clown smoke displays. To me the real fun is running 11 second quarter miles and feeling what the car was meant to provide. To watch a 14 second car do donuts is just lame to me. It's missing the point of the car's legend.

The rain they were driving in was hardly a monsoon. The only part of the cobra that could possibly get damageed my driving it in the rain, is the carpeting, which in the case of this car isn't even the original carpeting. so down the road yeah he might need new carpets but I'm fairly sure he's got enough bank to cover that.

As far as Cobras being "crappy bare steel in many places", the only steel used on a Cobra is the Chassis which was painted black at the factory. The body panels, interior panels (except the Fiberglass foot wells) the radiator shrouding, and trunk panels (again except the tire carrier whish was also made of fiberglass) are all made out of aluminium. The engine was painted cast iron. there was no "crappy bare steel" on any cobra.

The Spoke wheels were plenty srong on the cobras also. The earliest cobras raced had spoke wheels and never once was there a wheel failure in any race. as a matter of fact the one of the hub carriers broke and the wheel was fine. The only reason that the race cars swithed to magnesium wheels were for lighter wiegt. The only reason the Street 427 Cobra didn't get wires were the wire wheels weren't available at production time, and there were a shortage of the Halibrand racing wheel also, so Pete Brock designed the Sunburst wheel for it. The wire would have been plenty strong for even a 427.

For the record he Jim was about to replace the tires on this, and was just having some fun. The sory goes though that one of the first things Carroll and the boys did in CSX2000 was donuts. so much for missing apoint.

[Darin Bastedo]

I'm confused who is this kid?

He's the son of the owner, and has driven many a high powered car. for the record the dad was doing the burnouts too, it wasn't just some kid plying with daddy's car.

[Darin Bastedo]

2 thoughts...

First, if the leather-faced guy driving the car in the second video is the same as the driver in the first, he looks like he's 60 years old. It may be the result of the video making him look very wrinkled and turkey-necked, but if you asked me I'd say he's more AARP than teenager.

Second, I it's his car, but the 360 burnouts seem pretty pointless. I'm not sure why you'd want to do that with any car...but...to each their own.

In the burnout video, it was both him and his son, and yeah, it's pointless, but it looks like in the video, everyone was having fun except the dog.

[old-hermit]

It's a car !!!!!! It was built to be driven !!!!! If it gets destroyed all that does is make the rest more valuable !!!!!

Same thing goes for model kits. They were meant to be built. I'll rip the plastic off a 40 year old kit and build it in a heartbeat.

If I could afford a genuine Cobra it would get the tires smoked in a heartbeat too.

[whale392]

Darin:

As to the 'Pimply-faced-kid' age requirement; show me where either he or his father are accomplished drivers. And you know what, for the matter of age; how many Indy drivers have titles by this guys age? How many Nascar, NHRA, and Formula and touring car drivers have titles/sponsors at his age? How many bike racers that are 12-15 have titles? And let's not forget quarter midgets, shifter carts, and cart racing populated by kids (who have a better head on their shoulders than this kids seems to be by this video). And so what if he is the son of the owner and has driven many 'high powered cars'? I guess me driving dads Hemicars, my own 440+6 powered B-Body, a Nitro powered rail, and ESP/GT SCCA cars would constitute the same thing huh? But am I 'accomplished'? No. Does daddy having enough pocket to go to Barrett-Jackson and buy a car like this make him accomplished (either he or his dad)? No.

I appreciate your point of view Darin, but look at that burn-out video. Tell me that kid or his dad are accomplished drivers by the total LACK of car control exibited in that vid. I can (and do) do better in my Mustang AND my Dakota V8. My dad drives his 260,000+ mile one-owner Hemicar in Central Florida quite regularly. HE has a LOT more respect for his car than this clown-duo does (and risks just as nice a car in my opinion). Hemicars, like Cobras, are not a dime-a-dozen car.

I stand by my point, and if it is not popular, oh well. To my driving eye, these two 'drivers' in the burnout video are second-rate throttle-hacks.

Dave; yes I would love to drive a Cobra as a teen. But I did get to drive Hemis, 440+6 cars, 340+6 cars, and Vipers (when Vipers were NEW). I got to be around (and in) Nitro cars, Pro-Stockers, Comp cars, and all sorts of motorsports growing up thanks to my dad, his friends, and my friends. I have ties to jet-dragsters thanks in part to where I have worked and my career field. I consider myself EXTREMELY lucky to have the car background I do, and love every minute of it.

Bluesman Mark; thank you for understanding the point I was trying to make.

old-hermit; yes, they are just cars. But destroying one does not necessarily make the remaining more valuable. As a collector car, yes it does. But thanks to the kit cars, anyone with modest financial means can have a clone that performs better than the original at a fraction of the cost.

[Darin Bastedo]

...and I suppose you could make the argument that he's risking less damage doing donuts than taking it vintage racing which few people would object to. On top of which going vintage racing usually requires some level of saftey modifications to keep the organizers happy, doing brodies only requires a police-free patch of pavement. Personally I'm just not sure what the appeal of doing donuts is, but unless it's my car that doesn't matter.

I think the other thing a lot of people don't take into consideration with cars like this is that it's nearly impossible to do any damage to the car that it wouldn't be cost-effective to fix. Blow the motor, tear up a transmission, wuff a diff, so what? If you have the pockets to own one, you probably have enough left over to pay for what you destroy.

It's like Nick Mason said about letting friends drive his 1962 ferrari 250 GTO. It's handbuilt, if it gets pranged, you get a new part made. Don't forget that it's less expensive to build a new cobra completely from scratch than it cost to buy one, so no amout of damage short of one getting melted down, can't be fixed. You really can't total out a $400,000 Cobra.

at today's values, even this one is a fixer-upper...

[Cato]

The rain they were driving in was hardly a monsoon. The only part of the cobra that could possibly get damageed my driving it in the rain, is the carpeting, which in the case of this car isn't even the original carpeting. so down the road yeah he might need new carpets but I'm fairly sure he's got enough bank to cover that.

I'm not quibbling about carpet Darin. Cobras driven in moisture require maintenance to not suffer major corrosion.

As far as Cobras being "crappy bare steel in many places", the only steel used on a Cobra is the Chassis which was painted black at the factory. The body panels, interior panels (except the Fiberglass foot wells) the radiator shrouding, and trunk panels (again except the tire carrier whish was also made of fiberglass) are all made out of aluminium. The engine was painted cast iron. there was no "crappy bare steel" on any cobra.

Your explanation of construction is mostly accurate but your contact with one car from your hometown is obvious. I don't need your technical help. 48 years ago, there were no 'etching primers' applied at the factory. That black paint had corrosion under it on the salt-water boat ride over from the UK. Ever look in the pedal box, at the brackets, fluid reservoirs, leaf springs, uprights, rotors, water pump, headers, clutch linkage or bolts on a 60's Cobra driven as little as 2K miles? Ask how I know. I've had 47 years of contact with originals and 25 years of experience with my replica. What was not 'crappy bare steel' soon became that way-especially the black painted bird cage and main tube weld junctions. All that aluminum oxidizes and magnesium returns to the Earth left un-maintained. So I'll stand by that and you can think what you read.

The Spoke wheels were plenty srong on the cobras also. The earliest cobras raced had spoke wheels and never once was there a wheel failure in any race. as a matter of fact the one of the hub carriers broke and the wheel was fine. The only reason that the race cars swithed to magnesium wheels were for lighter wiegt. The only reason the Street 427 Cobra didn't get wires were the wire wheels weren't available at production time, and there were a shortage of the Halibrand racing wheel also, so Pete Brock designed the Sunburst wheel for it. The wire would have been plenty strong for even a 427.

Ken Miles snapped the spline-driven wires on the earliest 260-powered race cars. Splines were replaced by tapered-seat cones. On 289's those were replaced by Halibrand 'Kidney Bean' solid wheels on race cars and only street cars got the wires. In late '64, when the first 427 was installed in 3002, Hailbrand magnesiums were installed to handle the 150 additional foot pounds of torque developed. And handle the car's overall weight increase of nearly 300 pounds, due to 4" main rails instaed of 3" and a cradle that was 4" wider with coilover springs and uprights. NO big block cars had wires. There is a famous picture of 25 bare big block cars parked behind Shelby's at the airport sitting on milk crates. Halibrand could not keep up with demand as many Corvettes and race cars (including GS') used them as well. The Sunburst was substituted for street big blocks-both 427 and 428. They were supplied by Kelsey Hayes in aluminum. Magnesium was spec'd for both street AND comp Cobras, only the supply problem temporarily changed that. Your version of history has some bent spokes.

For the record he Jim was about to replace the tires on this, and was just having some fun. The sory goes though that one of the first things Carroll and the boys did in CSX2000 was donuts. so much for missing apoint.

You can cheerlead for Jim or the original owner all you want. As said by DoubleD, I could care less. My love is for the cars-there are so few now and I'd much rather they vintage race and track day than tour in the rain and do kid-stuff in parking lots. Well again, the 'sory' (sic) is not history or fact. The first thing Carroll and Dean Moon did after the 260 went in was call Motor Trend's editor John Christy over to drive and photo it (in bare aluminum) for publication and marketing. Then they drove it back and forth to work a few days and began a series of paint and strips (the first was yellow) for publications to spread the idea there was more than one and that it would be produced.

Burnouts and loops were not done because it was the only one...

On the web, you should not underestimate the experiences others write about. How many of these have you driven, raced, maintained, modified and restored? That's the point you're missing. No p'contest required.

[Darin Bastedo]

Darin:

As to the 'Pimply-faced-kid' age requirement; show me where either he or his father are accomplished drivers. And you know what, for the matter of age; how many Indy drivers have titles by this guys age? How many Nascar, NHRA, and Formula and touring car drivers have titles/sponsors at his age? How many bike racers that are 12-15 have titles? And let's not forget quarter midgets, shifter carts, and cart racing populated by kids (who have a better head on their shoulders than this kids seems to be by this video). And so what if he is the son of the owner and has driven many 'high powered cars'? I guess me driving dads Hemicars, my own 440+6 powered B-Body, a Nitro powered rail, and ESP/GT SCCA cars would constitute the same thing huh? But am I 'accomplished'? No. Does daddy having enough pocket to go to Barrett-Jackson and buy a car like this make him accomplished (either he or his dad)? No.

I appreciate your point of view Darin, but look at that burn-out video. Tell me that kid or his dad are accomplished drivers by the total LACK of car control exibited in that vid. I can (and do) do better in my Mustang AND my Dakota V8. My dad drives his 260,000+ mile one-owner Hemicar in Central Florida quite regularly. HE has a LOT more respect for his car than this clown-duo does (and risks just as nice a car in my opinion). Hemicars, like Cobras, are not a dime-a-dozen car.

I stand by my point, and if it is not popular, oh well. To my driving eye, these two 'drivers' in the burnout video are second-rate throttle-hacks.

Actually just about every form of racing is a young man's sport. Just about evry young gun who makes it to the show, has won a title somewhere. If you are at Indy you probably have a Kart championship under your belt, or world of outlaws, same thing with nascar, if you are racing in the cup, you probably have a long list of short track vistories. You want names of young guys when they started? How about Paul Tracy Danica Patrick, Al Unser jr, Kyle Petty, Dale Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt jr, Micheal Andretti, Carroll Shelby, Senna, Schumacher Fangio, Enzo ferrari. They all started in their early twenties.

As fror the pimply faced kid, he doesn't have a racing career, but he does have a lot of experience driving very fast cars. He didn't just jump out of a Honda Civic and into a Cobra. As far as a lack of skill goes, you obviously have never done donuts in a Cobra. the power to wieght ratio combined with the short wheelbase, makes it very difficult to control. They did just fine.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Darin Bastedo

[whale392]

Really Darin........doing doughnuts in a 2000lb car with 245hp seems pretty close to doing them in a 3020lb car with 350hp. BOTH the Cobra and the FOX Mustang are very tail-light, the Mustang more than the Cobra. BOTH are hard to keep pointed in the same direction consistantly when power is applied. BOTH are squirrelly at any flick of the throttle.

Have YOU driven a Cobra? Try doing that same thing with a Viper; have you? I HAVE. I have also driven a Superformance Cobra kit with a 4.6L DOHC 2003 Cobra motor pullied for 550hp. Have you? Tell me again how well they did.

Not asking to be a plick, but asking to establish relevance of your reply.

Edited December 13, 2010 by whale392

[Darin Bastedo]

Cato You can say what you want, but I have had much more than just some experience with on Cobra in my hometown. I've been a member of SAAC from the early eighties until last year when I let my dues lapse due to a family emergency. The cobra Community is small and I've never heard of you before, unless you are using an assumed name. That said, regardless of whether they used etching primer or not many cobras have been driven in the rain with no ill effects. Cobras aren't fragile cars. that is what made them champions. but I'm not going to have long drawn out argument with you over trivial technical item on 50 year old cars. but since you are so concerned with weather CSX2521 will melt in the rain, let me assure you it won't. It's been fully restored and they used etching primer on the chassis, and I'm sure Jim will take really good car of his baby. He did afterall pay an awful lot for it.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Darin Bastedo

[ra7c7er]

Darin:

As to the 'Pimply-faced-kid' age requirement; show me where either he or his father are accomplished drivers. And you know what, for the matter of age; how many Indy drivers have titles by this guys age? How many Nascar, NHRA, and Formula and touring car drivers have titles/sponsors at his age? How many bike racers that are 12-15 have titles? And let's not forget quarter midgets, shifter carts, and cart racing populated by kids (who have a better head on their shoulders than this kids seems to be by this video). And so what if he is the son of the owner and has driven many 'high powered cars'? I guess me driving dads Hemicars, my own 440+6 powered B-Body, a Nitro powered rail, and ESP/GT SCCA cars would constitute the same thing huh? But am I 'accomplished'? No. Does daddy having enough pocket to go to Barrett-Jackson and buy a car like this make him accomplished (either he or his dad)? No.

I appreciate your point of view Darin, but look at that burn-out video. Tell me that kid or his dad are accomplished drivers by the total LACK of car control exibited in that vid. I can (and do) do better in my Mustang AND my Dakota V8. My dad drives his 260,000+ mile one-owner Hemicar in Central Florida quite regularly. HE has a LOT more respect for his car than this clown-duo does (and risks just as nice a car in my opinion). Hemicars, like Cobras, are not a dime-a-dozen car.

I stand by my point, and if it is not popular, oh well. To my driving eye, these two 'drivers' in the burnout video are second-rate throttle-hacks.

I have raced everything from Go-Karts to SCCA and even got in a Craftsman truck series truck , didn't qualify, and I help test for the ARCA dirt races at Springfield and Duquoin. I'm not award wise very accomplished but like you I am way way more accomplished than a guy and his son who thrash expensive cars up and down a mountain. That mountain is step but it's not very difficult. Most high school kids have more control than that, at least the farm boys where I went to high school did. Accomplishment doesn't mean how much money you have just go to any Skip Barber racing school you will see the first guy to wreck his car is always the kid going on Daddies dime. It's fun to be around when that phone call happens.

And for those of you who are saying that it's hard to control a burnout in a car like that,it might be but all they did was mash the throttle like 15 year olds. Sustaining a burnout or doughnut requires throttle finesse and these two have no clue. Just do a search for Cobra burnouts and you will see several with drivers who have tons more control and smoke than the yahoo and his son in the vids here. Anyone can mash the throttle with the wheels cocked and go in circles. Must be nice to destroy something you paid six figures for.

Edited December 13, 2010 by ra7c7er

[Darin Bastedo]

Have YOU driven a Cobra? Try doing that same thing with a Viper; have you? I HAVE. I have also driven a Superformance Cobra kit with a 4.6L DOHC 2003 Cobra motor pullied for 550hp. Have you? Tell me again how well they did.

.

Yes as a matter of fact I have driven a Cobra. I took a few medium hot laps around watkins glen in 1993. I've also driven a few cobra replicas, as well as a Hennessy Viper with 650 horsepower. does this matter? nope. the fact is the Son did some really nice controlled drifts, and the old man would have done better had he put his foot in it a little more.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Darin Bastedo

[Guest Johnny]

. Must be nice to destroy something you paid six figures for.

I saw nothing destroyed! Don't know what you were seeing but that little car was built to take a whole lot more abuse than that! Just ask Carroll!

The way I see it is he has the money to afford one more power to him but at least he didn't buy it to set in a fancy building not being driven that only friends and family can enter just so he can say "look what I own" or stored away out of sight while he hopes it will bring an even bigger payout towards his retirement!

These guys are doing with it what it was intended for! Driving it and having a blast doing it!

I was fortunate enough to get to drive one at Road America and I can tell you it will leave you with wobbly knes when you get out if you aren't used to driving something like it on a regular basis!

[bigphoto]

Regardless of the bickering that seems to be going on here about this Darin showed us a vid of a father spending some gearhead time with his kid and that is priceless!!!

[CAL]

It's like Nick Mason said about letting friends drive his 1962 ferrari 250 GTO. It's handbuilt, if it gets pranged, you get a new part made. Don't forget that it's less expensive to build a new cobra completely from scratch than it cost to buy one, so no amout of damage short of one getting melted down, can't be fixed. You really can't total out a $400,000 Cobra.

at today's values, even this one is a fixer-upper...

Yes, when we had our Cobra in the shop we heard stories of one going down the side of a mountian, rolling, and burning to the ground and rebuild from what was left of the frame, which was all that was left.

[CAL]

I was just a couple years ago I saw multi-millions of dollars worth of original Ferrari 250 GTO rolling off the track into a guard rail, doing massive amounts of damage.