GTMust Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Here's my Pyro 1/32 scale 1909 Lozier Briarcliffe that I built about twenty plus years ago: I have another of these kits which I intend to use to build a replica of the second place car driven by Ralph Mulford in the first (1911) Indianapolis 500. After the race, Mulford challenged the win by the Marmon Wasp driven by Ray Harroun, arguing that he had passed Harroun when the Marmon Wasp had a flat tire and limped into the pits to get it changed. But the officials declared Harroun the winner and the Marmon Wasp became the official winner of the very first Indy 500 and into the record books. Before I start the build of the 1911 Indy 500 Lozier second place car (Ralph Mulford), I'm trying to get as much information as I can about the car and it's original color scheme. Although the Marmon Wasp (restored?) is in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum, the Lozier may have been cut up for scrap, long ago. Here's the info on the Lozier from Wikipedia: Car #33 driven by Ralph Mulford Entered by the Lozier Motor Company Colour White So I'm wondering if anyone has any info on the car. What colors were the numbers painted, etc.? I did come up with some interesting statistics about the race. Three Loziers were entered in the 1911 Indy 500. Ralph Mulford..#33..Lozier chassis/engine..Start/29th..Finish/2nd(allegedly ) Teddy Tetzlaff..#34..Start/35th..Fin/39th..DNF: There is a third entry listed, but with no driver, number, or reason for DNQ. Though both the #33 and #34 cars looked the same, Mulford's is listed as white...and Tetzlaff's is white/red. But no record of what happened to the third. All three entries are by Lozier Motor Co. This is the Lozier at the Vanderbuilt auto race six months before the indianapolis race. Not much on color information. Based upon the black and white photo, it must have been a light color. This picture really helps as it gives me a view of the gas tank and spare tire arrangement. It's probably the same car that was entered in the 1911 Indy 500. I know the car was white from previous information, so now it's just a question of trying to determine what color the numbers were. I'm guessing red but they could be black. Anyone know or have any more information that maybe of help?
Chuck Most Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 Wow... it has been years since I've heard anyone refer to a Lozier! Love the stock one you built, the racer should be just as sweet.
Ron a.k.a. Grouchy Pants Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 I dont know much more then you and yeah its real hard to make out if the numbers are red or black or whatever they might be in that pic... But I do know this - I am excited to see you build this - so dont ever feel like your posting to many photos/info/etc.. I cant wait for your info to be gathered so you can get started
GTMust Posted June 14, 2011 Author Posted June 14, 2011 Ralph Mulford was a busy and successful driver in those early years. I found a bunch of black and white photos of various events in the 1910 - 1911 era with him in various Loziers. (They're probably the same car but with different numbers.) Most are long distance shots taken from the crowd and partly obscured by the dust flying around the cars... and not much help in providing me with details. Unless I find some better close up pictures, I may have to "fudge" the model a little. However, here are a couple which may help a little: (The # 22 car looks like it may be the racer in the museum reference picture in my "under glass" Mercer racer thread.) And one of a similar car driven by Harry Grant...... and another (unknown driver)..... which may, or may not help.
sjordan2 Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 There's a short documentary on the 1911 Indy 500 here, with some interesting film footage. I was somewhat surprised to see that each car had a cut-out circle, mounted on a pole at the rear of the car, with the number on it. http://theoldmotor.com/?s=lozier
GTMust Posted June 14, 2011 Author Posted June 14, 2011 Thanks Skip..... much appreciated. It's also interesting that the headlamps and spare tires appear to have been removed for the actual race. I guess they kept the spare tires in the "pits"(?). That second picure gives me a lot of information. Now to decide which way to build it. Tony
sjordan2 Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 Thanks Skip..... much appreciated. It's also interesting that the headlamps and spare tires appear to have been removed for the actual race. I guess they kept the spare tires in the "pits"(?). That second picure gives me a lot of information. Now to decide which way to build it. Tony That second picture looks like it's got a rocket mounted on the side. Ready to smoke the competition?
GTMust Posted June 15, 2011 Author Posted June 15, 2011 I got a little more basic construction done this afternoon. The suspension and wheels were built as per the kit.... I just refined the front suspension detail a little. I used the rear floor section from the kit and filed off all the uneeded detail. Fuel tank and support were pirated from a Pyro Mercer and the driver's floor is made from sheet styrene and will be woodgrained later. Driver's footrest will also be from scrap styrene. I think it's just about ready for it's first primer coat.
charlie8575 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Very interesting, Tony. I'll enjoy watching this one come together, too. Charlie Larkin
GTMust Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 I just realized I screwed up!! The picture of the Actual #33 car shows the seats mounted directly on the chassis as well as the gas tank so I didn't need that extra floor on the rear of the car. Now the car is in primer and I have to try to remove that rear floor section that I glued on and lay level floorboards over the area instead. Or maybe the chassis rails were exposed where the spare tires are mounted. Oh for some detail pictures!!!!
sjordan2 Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I just realized I screwed up!! The picture of the Actual #33 car shows the seats mounted directly on the chassis as well as the gas tank so I didn't need that extra floor on the rear of the car. Now the car is in primer and I have to try to remove that rear floor section that I glued on and lay level floorboards over the area instead. Or maybe the chassis rails were exposed where the spare tires are mounted. Oh for some detail pictures!!!! Also looks like a black radiator, which is a bit unexpected.
sportandmiah Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 I believe that car did a lap at the Indy 500 a couple weeks ago, right after the anthem.
GTMust Posted June 17, 2011 Author Posted June 17, 2011 I believe that car did a lap at the Indy 500 a couple weeks ago, right after the anthem. I just checked the web for information on this but couldn't find anything. There was the Marmon Wasp, a yellow #36 Mercer (?) and another car of the same era (#8) that I will check out further but nothing about the Lozier in the pre race parade. If you have any further information I would really appreciate it. Tony
GTMust Posted June 17, 2011 Author Posted June 17, 2011 Also looks like a black radiator, which is a bit unexpected. Yes. This also shows on the pic of the car in the race. I assume it's black which would suggest the numbers would also be black.... but it could also be a very dark red.... The number 34 Lozier was listed as white/red, so berhaps they could represent Lozier team colors?
GTMust Posted June 17, 2011 Author Posted June 17, 2011 I've assumed that the rear chassis rails were exposed (why would the race car have floor boards back there?), so I've removed them and the stock gas tank under the floor. Unfortunately this exposed the lack of the top half of the rear diff, so I'm going to have to find a way to overcome that problem now that's it's exposed. I guess Pyro was trying to save a few bucks by leaving this off! If anyone has a spare rear axle for this model that I can turn over and use the diff part for the top section..... please let me know. It would be much appreciated. Here are the modifications.... and the floorboards added to the driver's area. And another coat of primer!
Jim Gibbons Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Whew, that upper differential might be better sculpted from Milliput putty, etc. The asymmetry will be tricky to adapt from kit parts.
GTMust Posted June 17, 2011 Author Posted June 17, 2011 That's true Jim..... I hadn't considered the "flip side"!
Jim Gibbons Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) I just got my issue of Hemming's Classic Car magazine, and they had a short blurb on the Champlain Valley Transportation museum in Plattsburg, NY. One of the two Lozier's they have on display is on loan from Jeff Lozier, the grandson of Henry Lozier. You might try to contact the museum to try to get in touch with him; maybe he would have information on your Indy car. http://www.cvtmuseum.com/gallery.htm Edited June 18, 2011 by Jim Gibbons
GTMust Posted June 18, 2011 Author Posted June 18, 2011 Thanks Jim. I've sent an email to the museum and I'll keep you posted on any responses I get. Tony
Jim Gibbons Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Great Tony; I hope you will find the information you need. I knew of the Lozier, but not a lot about them. I was looking through Skip's link with the Indy video, and what caught my eye was the use of ball, rather than babbit bearings. Pretty neat. Not too many manufacturers did this. The last car I knew that used this practice was 2 stroke SAAB engines. There may be more that I'm not aware of. Regardless, a Lozier must have been a very fine piece of machinery in its day. I'm impressed. Now I'm going to have to find one of the Pyro models of it!
GTMust Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 I've got most of the body painted now, guessed the radiator is black (?) and started on the differential cover. A bit of a mess right now but when the filler dries, I'm going to try to carve it to shape. I've also started to woodgrain the floor boards (paint) and the bulkhead (shelf liner adhesive paper). I still have to treat the floorboards with a thin coat of "turn signal amber" to get a closer match to the firewall. I'll just have to experiment till I get it as close as I can. If I can't match it I'll probably remove the shelf liner paper and paint the firewall instead.
sjordan2 Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Looking good. Don't paint the wood, download wood samples and make a decal or paper sticker.
GTMust Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 Looking good. Don't paint the wood, download wood samples and make a decal or paper sticker. I'm hoping that my "artistic talent"..... yeah right!..... will come up with a reasonable wood look. That's part of the "fun"! If all else fails, I can always resort to the stickers, 'cos that's Plan B...... Tony
GTMust Posted June 23, 2011 Author Posted June 23, 2011 Well...... my Michealangelo "artistic talent"(?) looked more like a Picasso, so I resorted to Plan B! Stickers it is! Pictures when I'm satisfied with the way they look........... Tony
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