Hear's another tread thread

[sjordan2]

The 1/25 Jo-Han 500K special coupe has very inaccurate tires. Does anyone know of a source with tires that have a tread more like this? My experience is that tire suppliers like Satco, who said their tires fit 1/25-1/24, are too large for 1/25 and are generally for 1/24.

[Junkman]

  On 8/27/2011 at 8:50 PM, sjordan2 said:

The 1/25 Jo-Han 500K special coupe has very inaccurate tires. Does anyone know of a source with tires that have a tread more like this? My experience is that tire suppliers like Satco, who said their tires fit 1/25-1/24, are too large for 1/25 and are generally for 1/24.

I would think there were more than one type of tyres available. IIRC the ones in the Jo-Han kits are Dunlops?

Here we really are on thin ice because - as mentioned earlier - most of the records were pulverized and most people who could tell are dead by now.

Even factory photos are rare.

[Harry P.]

Aren't most aftermarket tires meant for "modern" cars? They'd be too wide and too small in diameter, wouldn't they?

[Dr. Cranky]

I would think so . . . but I still eyeball it to make sure. It's a great idea to mock them up to see how they look first.

[sjordan2]

This is the Jo-Han tire.

[Junkman]

I knew they are Dunlops. And I think it is safe to assume they were available on new cars.

Speaking of factory photos, here is a photo of the Sindelfingen factory 1945:

You may imagine that saving records for posteriority was not a top priority.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Junkman

[sjordan2]

  On 8/27/2011 at 9:56 PM, Junkman said:

I knew they are Dunlops. And I think it is safe to assume they were available on new cars.

Speaking of factory photos, here is a photo of the Sindelfingen factory 1945:

You may imagine that saving records for posteriority was not a top priority.

Yes, as I mentioned on another thread, I contacted the Mercedes Classic Center for information on a number of cars and they said they lost most of their prewar records due to Allied bombing. The best they have are well-known and easiy available specifications.

Edited August 27, 2011 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

  On 8/27/2011 at 9:56 PM, Junkman said:

You may imagine that saving records for posteriority was not a top priority.

Posteriority???

So they wouldn't get behind in their work?

[Junkman]

  On 8/27/2011 at 10:47 PM, Harry P. said:

Posteriority???

So they wouldn't get behind in their work?

Posterity. I may not always get it right, but I still think my English is better than your German.

What I was trying to say is that back then there was comparatively little concern for archiving the few remaining records, which car modellers might find useful 65 years later, since other duties appeared to be more pressing at the time.

What we should look into is whether some promotional materials or sales brochures have survived in private hands and how we can get access to them.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Junkman

[Harry P.]

  On 8/27/2011 at 11:45 PM, Junkman said:

Posterity. I may not always get it right, but I still think my English is better than your German.

Could be.

But we speak English here...

[Junkman]

  On 8/27/2011 at 11:48 PM, Harry P. said:

Could be.

But we speak English here...

Correct. I try my best.

[Foxer]

I would start by measuring the kit tires and try to find what sizes at the time match. I know you already suspect the tires Jo-Han put in the kit, but that's a start. It almost looks like the kit tire has a size on it? Is that xxx-17 I read? I can't tell what the xxx might be. It seems like 17" may be a reasonable rim size for that. Also scaling the tires off a good side view photo using a known dimension, like the wheelbase, can get close to the actual tire dimensions.

That's a pretty unusual tread on the real tire. I know the odds of finding something just like it are gonna be slim. All the 500k photos I've seen have conventional looking tires, but they are probably all restored and who knows what they are wearing.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Foxer

[Agent G]

  On 8/27/2011 at 9:56 PM, Junkman said:

I knew they are Dunlops. And I think it is safe to assume they were available on new cars.

Speaking of factory photos, here is a photo of the Sindelfingen factory 1945:

You may imagine that saving records for posteriority was not a top priority.

They spent to much time building these:

Now that's "tread".

G

[Junkman]

  On 8/28/2011 at 4:16 AM, AgentG said:

They spent to much time building these:

Errrr... obviously they spent too little time buildig these. Had they allocated sufficient time building these, the records would have survived.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Junkman

[sjordan2]

That tread may be slightly more aggressive than what I'm looking for.

[Darin Bastedo]

  On 8/27/2011 at 11:48 PM, Harry P. said:

Could be.

But we speak English here...

Well we are on the "world wide web" so technically here is everywhere.

[Junkman]

  On 8/28/2011 at 2:05 AM, Foxer said:

I would start by measuring the kit tires and try to find what sizes at the time match. I know you already suspect the tires Jo-Han put in the kit, but that's a start. It almost looks like the kit tire has a size on it? Is that xxx-17 I read? I can't tell what the xxx might be. It seems like 17" may be a reasonable rim size for that. Also scaling the tires off a good side view photo using a known dimension, like the wheelbase, can get close to the actual tire dimensions.

That's a pretty unusual tread on the real tire. I know the odds of finding something just like it are gonna be slim. All the 500k photos I've seen have conventional looking tires, but they are probably all restored and who knows what they are wearing.

17" is the correct rim size for a 500K and 540K, the tyre size would be 6.50 - 17 or 7.00 - 17 respectively.

I have seen factory photos of new cars wearing Continentals or Dunlops. The tyres in the picture posted by Skip I've seen for the first time and just by looking at the tread they seem to be special. I also think that one of the words on the sidewall spells 'REGEN', the German word for rain.

This is a chart of which tyre sizes were fitted on pre-war Mercedes from the factory:

Edited August 28, 2011 by Junkman

[Harry P.]

  On 8/28/2011 at 9:53 PM, Darin Bastedo said:

Well we are on the "world wide web" so technically here is everywhere.

No, here is here. This forum.

[Art Anderson]

One of the big problems with tires for kits of Classic Era (or for that matter any antique car pre-WW2) that were engineered and tooled back say, in the 1960's is that back then, truly correct tires were almost completely unavailable on the real car market. Cars such as Duesenbergs or the larger wire wheeled Packards often were re-shot with truck tires until companies such as Denmann came on the scene, offering at least passenger car tires with albeit very incorrect tread patterns.

So, in so many cases, model kits of these cars, created for the first time as they were, in the decade of the 1960's, came with miniatures of whatever tires were on the particular vehicle used for reference. Monogram's Duesenberg kits were tooled with Denmann style tires, which tires carried over to the Rolls Phantom II, and ultimately the Packard series of kits; the '41 Lincoln also got Denmann's from all appearances, as did the Cord 812, while their Bugatti Type 35B did get Dunlops (I suspect the real car was originally fitted with Michelin's).

Were these cars being engineered and tooled today, it would be fairly easy to access correct reproduction tires, given the existence of companies such as Coker Tire Company in Tennessee, who have tire molds for a great many tires of the "Horseless Carriage" years out to the 1960's, even 1970's. I suspect that the same is true in Europe, given that pics of European and British classics abound showing them to have period correct tires once again.

Probably the only way we will get tires that are truly correct for Classic Car kits will be if some resin caster steps up to the plate, masters correct tires, casts them, offers them for sale.

Art

[sjordan2]

So...going back to the original question, does anyone know of a 1/25 tire that might have a tread closer to the original photo I posted and different from the Jo-Han example I posted? Honestly, it's not a huge deal for my satisfaction with the build, but it could be a nice improvement.

Edited August 28, 2011 by sjordan2

[Art Anderson]

  On 8/28/2011 at 10:26 PM, sjordan2 said:

So...going back to the original question, does anyone know of a 1/25 tire that might have a tread closer to the original photo I posted and different from the Jo-Han example I posted? Honestly, it's not a huge deal for my satisfaction with the build, but it could be a nice improvement.

Not unless there is a tire from one of the Heller kits of the same era that might fit?

[sjordan2]

  On 8/28/2011 at 11:13 PM, Art Anderson said:

Not unless there is a tire from one of the Heller kits of the same era that might fit?

Thanks, Art, I'll have to check that out. But, boy, those are expensive, and they're 1/24.

[Junkman]

I'm afraid you'll draw a blank with Heller too. The Heller tyres are very generic with the exception of the Michelin radials in the 15/6.