Opinion Please --- Re Customs in Contests...

[Ramfins59]

I've been to several Model Shows / Contests and have seen dozens of the Revell '49 Mercs in the Custom Class, done up in just about every color of the rainbow. Even though I, personally, have not built one of these kits yet (I do have 2 of them) I have thoroughly inspected the kits, the instructions, and all the delicious parts in them (plenty of extra parts to rob for other builds...).

These Merc models that I have seen on the Contest tables were built right out of the box, with absolutely no modifications of any kind done to them.

My question is; Should these models actually have been put in the Box Stock Class instead of the Customs Class, since no actual "custom work" was done to the model...??? I have never seen any of these models moved by any judging staff from the Custom Class to the Box Stock, or any other Classes.

I'm really NOT picking at any nits here, but... if the builder did not modify anything on the model to "customize" it, shouldn't it be considered a Box Stock model...??? I know that there are quite a few other kits that have come with "custom parts" but I believe the majority, if not all, of them required some measure of bodywork (putty, sanding, etc..) to properly finish the model.

The Merc doesn't require any bodywork (other than sanding mold lines, etc.). All you have to do is assemble the parts in the kit.

I'm not looking to stir up any controversy here, I'm just curious as to how my fellow modelers feel about this particular "question".

Thanks for your input everyone.

[Chuck Most]

The model may be box stock, but the subject is pretty far from a stock '49 Merc, so it subject matter would be custom. I've seen these kits entered in both categories at shows.

[Harry P.]

My question is; Should these models actually have been put in the Box Stock Class instead of the Customs Class, since no actual "custom work" was done to the model...???

Absolutely. "Box Stock" means exactly that: building the model from the parts in the box.

When the kit is built straight from the box, it's a box-stock build of a "custom" subject. But the builder didn't do the customization, the manufacturer did!

If I build a box-stock "Monkeemobile" or "Road Agent," I haven't done any customization at all... I just assembled the parts in the box, and the model should not be entered in the "custom" class, IMO.

[roadhawg]

It could go in either class. The Custom class, however, would allow full detailing and aftermarket parts, where Box Stock would not.

[monkeyclaw]

"custom" is usually not meant to denote whether the model itself is from the box or not; the term "custom" , as applied to most contest rules I have been familiar with over the past 40 years. The term Custom means that the car represents a vehicle is not Factory stock....although the model may be from the box only; if you don't paint it a factory color; then indeed it would be a custom; regardless of widgets and bodywork or add ons..... this is usually the case in 1:1 car show events as well....I hope this helps.......Matt

[Bob Turner]

I have to agree with the consensus here. Since the subject matter is indeed that of a custom car, if built box stock, it's likely up to the builder as much as the contest organizers if it is placed in box stock or custom, though I can understand how you came to your point.

The real question is, if it is a well done & cleanly built box stock model & is placed in the custom class, how much of a chance does it have, (or should it have), against equally well done & cleanly built custom models that have been modified/customized & detailed by their respective builders, all other things being equal?

Points to mull over...........

[Guest Dr. Odyssey]

Custom refers to the subject as well as the work done to the model. It's not really subjective, and common sense should make the determination apparent. Out of the box has definite rules. The two can easily coexist.

[Dr. Cranky]

Rich, that's a great question, and you are bringing up one of my all time favorite kits, possibly up there in my top 3 list (the others would be the 41 Willys by Revell and AMT's 50 Chevy Pick up).

Anyway, when I think of this kit in particular, I am thankful that indeed it already comes customized and all you have to do is put it together and then paint it and INSTANTLY you have a model that's going to get quite a bit of attention.

Two customs without "customizing":

And even when you throw in a little bid of modification, they still turn out wonderful:

[Dr. Cranky]

Shiny or ratted out, it turns out you can give a judge quite a bit to think about: (hey, that rhymed! )

[Bob Turner]

I have to say Dr Cranky that I really like the blue one you took the top off of. The depth of the paint job & the interior detailing are very nice.

The other two don't appeal to me nearly as much. Oh, they are very well done, don't get me wrong, with interesting paint schemes. Just not the type of build that makes me sit up & go "Wow!"

That blue one on the other hand looks just right.

[Dr. Cranky]

So gee, what I forgot to say, is if you have two (or several) build them all, you are in for a real treat. Build them, and let the show organizers worry about where they will put them.

[62rebel]

i don't quite get the concept that using the kit contents without alteration somehow allows competition as a "Custom".

[Harry P.]

The real question is, if it is a well done & cleanly built box stock model & is placed in the custom class, how much of a chance does it have, (or should it have), against equally well done & cleanly built custom models that have been modified/customized & detailed by their respective builders, all other things being equal?

Exactly! To me a "custom" is a model that has been customized by the builder... not a box-stock build of a "custom" subject. I think a box-stock build of a Monkeemobile or Batmobile or Pie Wagon or whatever doesn't belong in competition with models that the builders actually customized.

[Bob Turner]

i don't quite get the concept that using the kit contents without alteration somehow allows competition as a "Custom".

Curt I think it's because even when built OOB, the Revell 49 Mercury kit can only represent a custom car. Much like if it was a build of the Ala Kart or the old Silhoutte show car. Both of those are considered customs in the 1/1 world, thus the models of them can be seen as the same, even when built box stock.

[Dr. Cranky]

I can see where there's plenty of confusion to be had. If you build a model that says "Custom" or "Customizable" on the box, I think the "style" is a custom and therefore it could be shown in the Customs category. If heavy modifications have been done to the model then it's a scratch-built or modified kit custom.

I always thought CUSTOM = the STYLE.

[Bob Turner]

Exactly! To me a "custom" is a model that has been customized by the builder... not a box-stock build of a "custom" subject. I think a box-stock build of a Monkeemobile or Batmobile or Pie Wagon or whatever doesn't belong in competition with models that the builders actually customized.

Harry, I see your point & it is indeed valid, but I also see where a box stock build of a model that only replicates a custom car once finished can be considered for the custom class, In this case it's as much subject matter as anything else.

I do think if a box xtock Revell 49 Merc build were entered into the custom class, that should be taken into consideration in the contest, say if I had entered the Merc, & you had entered a 58 Thunderbird that you customized yourself. If both are built to an equally clean stnadard, then yes, your Thunderbird model should beat my Mercury in that category.

[Harry P.]

It all boils down to how the individual contest sponsors want to define things.

In any contest that I sponsored, a model entered in the "custom" class would have to display some obvious customization by the builder from the original kit, and any kit built straight out of the box, regardless of whether the subject matter is a custom car or not, belongs in the "Box Stock" category. "Box Stock" means "Box Stock." Built from the parts in the box, regardless of subject.

After all, the whole point of a model contest is to judge the builder's skill and the work that he has put into his model and how successful he (or she) has been in the creation of the final product. To allow box-stock builds of "custom" subject matter to compete head-to-head with actual customized models doesn't seem fair to me.

[Chuck Most]

I've been to a few shows with a Hot Rods/Street Rods category, and you see quite a few of Revell's '32 Fords entered in that class. Sure, many have been modified by kitbashing or modifcations, but more than a handful are built straight from the box as Revell intended. No one disputes they are hot rod models. But that brings in what Bob Turner mentioned a few posts ago... all else being equal, do the strictly-OOB models stand any chance against the modified models? Well, picking a winner is far from a scientific process from what I've observed.

I've seen it go both ways- sometimes a box-stocker will bring home the award, other times the highly modified kit will be the winner. At the contest level, pretty much all the models are 'nice', but sometimes it's purely a matter of personal taste (and yes, perhaps even personal issues with a judge on the panel and the builder) which determines who takes home the trophy. That highly reworked Deuce 3-window with hundreds of machined parts and thousands of hours invested in the build might be a fine model, but perhaps the builder built it in an unusual style, or maybe just painted it in a somewhat strange color. The resulting model just might not 'click' as far as aesthetics go, and in that case, the upper hand would go to a box-stock model of the same car, done to a more 'acceptable' style.

[Dr. Cranky]

I'm going to agree with you, Harry. But let me play devil's advocate here for a sec.

Let's say a Custom section is set up at a show and you have one box stock CUSTOM and one modified or heavily scratch-built custom (assuming that the guidelines were not made clear in advance) and the truly modified CUSTOM has a regular paint job, say a one tone, and the box stock CUSTOM has one of those wild paint jobs with graphics, etc . . . .

Which do you think might get the judges attention in the category?

Or win?

Donn Yost says that Paint is the single most important factor on the show tables, in terms of grabbing a judges attention.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Dr. Cranky

[Bob Turner]

It all boils down to how the individual contest sponsors want to define things.

In any contest that I sponsored, a model entered in the "custom" class would have to display some obvious customization by the builder from the original kit, and any kit built straight out of the box, regardless of whether the subject matter is a custom car or not, belongs in the "Box Stock" category. "Box Stock" means "Box Stock." Built from the parts in the box, regardless of subject.

After all, the whole point of a model contest is to judge the builder's skill and the work that he has put into his model and how successful he (or she) has been in the creation of the final product. To allow box-stock builds of "custom" subject matter to compete head-to-head with actual customized models doesn't seem fair to me.

Harry, the day that you get a bunch of model builders, (even in the same club, let alone any sort of larger group), to agree on a logical, standardized set of rules & regulations for contests, please let me know.

On that day I'll nominate you to negotiate a lasting peace in the Middle East. After dealing with all the car modelers, that next task will be an absolute breeze!

In other words, I agree with you.

[Bob Turner]

I'm going to agree with you, Harry. But let me play devil's advocate here for a sec.

Let's say a Custom section is set up at a show and you have one box stock CUSTOM and one modified or heavily scratch-built custom (assuming that the guidelines were not made clear in advance) and the truly modified CUSTOM has a regular paint job, say a one tone, and the box stock CUSTOM has one of those wild paint jobs with graphics, etc . . . .

Which do you think might get the judges attention in the category?

Good question & though I'm not Harry, I will try to answer it.

While the flashier paint job on the OOB custom might get the most attention at first, (which is to be expected), if the judges know their stuff, they should be able to go further in looking at the builds to see which one is truly better.

Of course, we've all had run ins with judges that were, shall we say, less than qualified for the particular category they were judging?

Edited February 14, 2012 by Bob Turner

[Foxer]

I agree 100% with Harry, but I don't enter contests anymore and I seems the defination of the "custom" catagory varys considerably.

In my opinion, model car contests are not minature 1:1 contests. Most 1:1 cars arn 100% built but their owners .. they aren't expecter to have been.

Moder cars ARE expected to have been built by their owners. Custom defines the build, not necessarly the styling, but that is my opinion. If a Revell 49 Merc was built into what came off the showroom floor, it would actually be a custom to me!

I think most here have a differing opinion than me, but it all works out. A Revell 49 Merc built "box stock" and entered in the Custom class would garner pretty much 0 pionts for the top chop and have to depend totally on the builders skill for any consideration. They all start at a major disadvantage compared to anything else in the class.

Now, how about a Revell 49 Merc restored to factory stock configuration .. unchopped top and all. Where does THAT go ... the work definatly out-customs the box stock build!

This is definatly one for the definers of classes for a contest to define rather than any of us.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Foxer

[Harry P.]

Sorry Chuck, but I have to disagree.

Any kit built straight out of the box, simply assembled from the parts found in the kit, regardless of subject matter, belongs in Box Stock.

I mean, that's the definition of Box Stock! Built from the parts in the box, no modifications (aside from the generally accepted cleanup, foiling, painting, etc.)

If I build a Raider's Coach straight out of the box, I have no business entering that model in the "Custom" category... because I didn't do any customizing to it!

At least in my world that's how it would work...

[Chuck Most]

While the flashier paint job on the OOB custom might get the most attention at first, (which is to be expected), if the judges know their stuff, they should be able to go further in looking at the builds to see which one is truly better.

Exactly. The one with the wild paint job might get noticed first, but the main thing is, will it deliver upon closer inspection?

[Harry P.]

I'm going to agree with you, Harry. But let me play devil's advocate here for a sec.

Let's say a Custom section is set up at a show and you have one box stock CUSTOM and one modified or heavily scratch-built custom (assuming that the guidelines were not made clear in advance) and the truly modified CUSTOM has a regular paint job, say a one tone, and the box stock CUSTOM has one of those wild paint jobs with graphics, etc . . . .

Which do you think might get the judges attention in the category?

It's not a matter of getting the judge's attention, it's a matter of setting up classes that make sense logically. If you want to get the judge's attention, fine... but your model has to be entered in the correct class... and in my opinion, box stock is box stock, regardless of subject.

Harry, the day that you get a bunch of model builders, (even in the same club, let alone any sort of larger group), to agree on a logical, standardized set of rules & regulations for contests, please let me know.

On that day I'll nominate you to negotiate a lasting peace in the Middle East. After dealing with all the car modelers, that next task will be an absolute breeze!

In other words, I agree with you.

I hear you!