*Question RE: Racing Classes*

[1972coronet]

I finally got around to buying the AMT 1976 Gremlin and am wanting to build it to represent a homegrown race car ; however , I don't know just what class to build it for .

I'm wanting to build it as a Modified Production , but am not sure if it's conducive of that class ; and if it *is* , then what would a 304 / 360 with auto qualify as (e.g. , C/MP , D/MP , or ??? ) . Would a more-realistic approach be to build it as a Super Stock ( SS/KA ?) or a "Stock" ( J/SA ?) car ?

Thanks for your replies

[W-409]

Well it's not the easiest thing to build Stock Eliminator Drag Car which is technically correct, or matches NHRA rules, or is a car which could win races in 1:1 world. You have to convert parts from the engine, interior, chassis and it's mostly scratchbuilding, because there's no Stocker kits available ( ) .

If you build Super Stock, it needs more modifications, of course. I haven't been built Super Stock Cars (if those old '60's Racers doesn't count). But there might be some kits where to get few parts, but scratch building is needed, too.

I would build it as Stock Eliminator Drag Car (this might not be a suprise ) or then buy AMT '66 Nova Pro Street and modify that chassis to fit under Gremlin.

If you're building Stock Eliminator Drag Racer, make a WIP topic, I'll help where I can. (Currently building 1:1 scale Stocker with my father, so I might now something ).

[gonzo64nova]

Your Gremlin could be built as a M/P,gasser or Pro Stock car. M/P rules stated any American made enigine and trans could be used. Same for a gasser, the Pro stock car would need an engine the same make as the car. Hope this helps

[1972coronet]

Thanks to both of you !

I'd *figured* that a Modified Production build was possible ; I'm just not sure what sub-class (?) it would run in (e.g. , C/MP , ad seq.)

[iBorg]

Hmmmm based upon what I remember from the early 70's ........ 304 would fall into E/MP, a 340 would be D/MP. Dual carb, hi-riser manifold. Injectors or blower would push it into a gasser class.

The chassis would be modified stock, more than likely with subframe connectors. At least a roll bar with possibly a full roll cage. Need two seats or a bench seat with rear seat delete being legal.

Hope this helps.

[tbusch]

Modified Classes are based on weight to cubic inch, a Gremlin could run a 304 and be in D/MP due to being a small car.

Do not forget about the Super Modified classes, Single four barrel on a high rise with an automatic transmission

[Terry Sumner]

To answer your question...a 1976 Gremlin with the 304 would be in C/MP and with the 360 it would run in B/MP. This is how it works out. A stock 1976 Gremlin with the V8 has a listed curb weight of 3,023 pounds. The weight breaks for MP as of the 1970 rulebook were: (in pounds per cubic inch)

A/MP.....7.00 to 7.99

B/MP.....8.00 to 8.99

C/MP.....9.00 to 9.99

D/MP.....10.00 to 10.99

etc down to G/MP which was 13.00 or more pounds per cubic inch.

I'm fairly certain these weight breaks remaind constant for a number of years after 1970 but I don't have a rulebook from 1971 on until 1990.

So you divide 3023 by 304 cubic inches and you get 9.94 pounds per cubic inch and that puts the car right at the top end of the C class. Not a good competitive place to be. You want to have your cubic inch to pound ratio as close to the bottom end as you can get. And also remember that the car's classification wouldn't go by the published curb weight...it would go by what the car actually weighed at the track. So with a variation of only 77 additional pounds to bring the car to an even 3100 pounds, it would now have a ratio of 10.19 pounds per cubic inch and would be right at the bottom of D/MP...a very good spot to be in!

Take the same weight...3023 pounds...with the 360 in it and the ratio would be 8.39 pounds per cubic inch...fairly close to the bottom of B/MP. And that's a pretty good spot to be in.

So it all depends on how much the car weighs divided by the cubic inches of the engine to fall in the different classes.

Now I realize that these weight breaks I quoted were from a 1970 NHRA rulebook and the car in question is a 1976. And like I said I don't have a rulebook for 1976. But I'm fairly certain that these weight breaks remained constant through the ensuing years... If someone else has a rulebook from the mid to late 70's that would be great to be able to look up the weight breaks!

Hope this helps...

[Terry Sumner]

Addendum...I found a reference to the weight breaks in the mid 70's that said all the MP class weight breaks were increased by a half pound. So A/MP was 7.5 to 8.49, B/MP was 8.5 to 9.49, C/MP was 9.5 to 10.49, etc....

[1972coronet]

iBorg , Thanks much for your input ! Very helpful .

tbusch , I forgot about Super Modified for some reason . Thanks for the idea !

Terry Sumner, Excellent info ! Thanks for providing the power-to-weight rules / classes !

Thanks again to all for your guidance and info ! This will undoubtedly come in handy for others as well

[iBorg]

I'm sticking with my numbers based upon where Dusters ran. I think the Gremlin, while a smaller car, was built like a tank and therefore had about the same weight.

Mike

[1972coronet]

  On 8/28/2012 at 11:47 PM, iBorg said:

I'm sticking with my numbers based upon where Dusters ran. I think the Gremlin, while a smaller car, was built like a tank and therefore had about the same weight.

Mike

That makes sense ; I'd figured that the Gremlin was within the same weight class as the Chrysler "A" bodies .

[Terry Sumner]

Mike's right. They're pretty close... All the info I could find put the Dusters at anywhere from 120 to 390 pounds heavier than the Gremlin...depending on the engine/trans combo... One guy on the A-Bodies forum had his 74 Duster weighed at the track and it weighed 3415 pounds. And that was with a half tank of gas, factory AC, 318, aluminum intake, 4BBL, 904 trans, 8 1/4 rear, and no spare tire.

And another little bit...if you plan to build the car for the stock or super stock classes...the 360 was never offered in the Gremlin...only the 304. And that was offered for the first time in the 72 model and was dropped midway through the 76 year. AMC made only 826 Gremlins with the 304 in 76. Of course, as far as modeling goes, the only reason that would make any difference would be in what decals you put on the model because externally the 304 and the 360 are the same. Like a small block chevy...they all look the same on the outside from a 265 through a 400....

[1972coronet]

  On 8/29/2012 at 3:38 PM, Terry Sumner said:

Mike's right. They're pretty close... All the info I could find put the Dusters at anywhere from 120 to 390 pounds heavier than the Gremlin...depending on the engine/trans combo... One guy on the A-Bodies forum had his 74 Duster weighed at the track and it weighed 3415 pounds. And that was with a half tank of gas, factory AC, 318, aluminum intake, 4BBL, 904 trans, 8 1/4 rear, and no spare tire.

And another little bit...if you plan to build the car for the stock or super stock classes...the 360 was never offered in the Gremlin...only the 304. And that was offered for the first time in the 72 model and was dropped midway through the 76 year. AMC made only 826 Gremlins with the 304 in 76. Of course, as far as modeling goes, the only reason that would make any difference would be in what decals you put on the model because externally the 304 and the 360 are the same. Like a small block chevy...they all look the same on the outside from a 265 through a 400....

Thanks again for your input , Terry .

I'd mentioned the "360" for the same reasons you've stated ; it's a "generic" AMC engine in scale

I wonder about the Randall "X" and their 401's... Those *had* to be A/MP ! I also wonder if Randall ever installed 360's in Gremlins ?

[AC Norton]

hi there from ontario, canada.....enjoyed reading these comments re. gremlin x classes for nhra stock/super stock. i to am going to start this kit soon,...and maybe this will help a bit. i bought a new 73 gremlin x 304 in june 73. my first car, loved it then, still wish i had it. anyhow, i ran it thru the 74 season with some mods like headers, g60 pro trac tires, accel ignition , lakewood bars, tach,etc. at that time street guys like myself could run - STOCK FOR TROPHY- class, as we were not competitive in the money lanes. early spring 74 i fell into L/S stick. by early summer they moved me up to K/S . these little cars were a struggle to make competitive in a sea of killer sbc cars, but we had fun and sometimes went 2 or 3 rounds in spite of it all. also, a guy from the toronto area back in 73-74 era had a trailered one that had been to BOOTH ARONS in detroit for work,...his ran SS/OA- super stock o automatic. a purple w/ gold stripes gemlin x that ran 13.30s in legal trim, 13.00s with an illegal 500cfm holley 2 barrel. he too struggled in a sea of chevys that all ran 3 and 4 tenths quicker always. hope all of this helps, happy building everyone. regards, a.c.

[Alan]

  On 8/28/2012 at 1:48 AM, iBorg said:

Hmmmm based upon what I remember from the early 70's ........ 304 would fall into E/MP, a 340 would be D/MP. Dual carb, hi-riser manifold. Injectors or blower would push it into a gasser class.

The chassis would be modified stock, more than likely with subframe connectors. At least a roll bar with possibly a full roll cage. Need two seats or a bench seat with rear seat delete being legal.

Hope this helps.

dual carbs on tunnel rams are permitted on MP cars, that is what most ran