looking for rattle can paint tutorials, and help with painting in general

[Speedfreak]

Hello everyone, I need help getting a decent paint job with rattle cans. I've been working at this for two months now! LOL yes! two months! And I've modeled off and on all my life, 59 years. Admittedly it's been 14yrs since my last build, but, at that point I was laying down really good paint jobs with rattle cans, one after another, enamel. No orange peel, no runs nothing, just good clean, smooth, shiney paint jobs. I still have a car I painted from that period that I will be working on next but I thought I'd try an 'easy' build to get back into it, ya right.

Ok the other variable here is the fact that I paint outside. I'm aware of all the usual demons; humidity; wind; etc,.. and I've compensated for those but I still come up with less than good paint jobs. Orange peel, (little bumps distributed evenly) seems to be the biggest issue. Then comes the bubble/pit thing. I think I'm making progress but it's getting annoying.

Another thing that I think (know) I've been doing wrong is that i have been painting from the bottom/side of the body and working up and i should be doing it the other way round, right?

I guess I need to humble myself and start working with spoons?

Are there any good videos of someone painting outside that results in a good paint job? Or, any suggestions would be gratefully excepted. I'm not going to give up, it's just taking a lot longer than I thought it would to get back in the swing of things.

[Mike Kucaba]

Why do you paint outside? Are you painting with the wind blowing? With rattle cans and enamels at that, warming the cans and shaking a lot is very important. Any time I screw up painting it can be traced to impatience. I don't think painting from the top down or bottom up matters. I've painted both ways and got great results. Try and get some shelter when painting out side. HTH

[ToyLvr]

Gene:

Sounds familiar. I'm about the same age. Back in the day, I could shoot a model car body with plain old "Testors" rattle can paint and come out with a decent job almost every time. Also, I never washed the body or did any other special prep -I'd never heard of "mold release" etc., etc. Also, I can't remember paying any attention to temperature or humidity, either. How did we do it? Just lucky?

For a more indepth study, I'd recommend "The Modeler's Guide to Scale Automotive Finishes", by Pat Covert. It's a bit dated (1997), but most of the info on "how-to" is still applicable.

There's a DVD by Donn "Lonewolf" Yost that's really good, too, but will cost you. Check "You Tube" for some helpful *free* videos.

I don't have a home hobby room, so I also have to paint outdoors or in the garage (non-climate controlled). I can only stress "Back-To-Basics":

Cleanliness of your parts is a must;

Humidity is your worst enemy for most paints - must double check the weather in your area and try to always plan your paint sessions when humidity is 50% or less;

Some of your favorite old brands of paint ain't what they used to be; try something new. I am using "Tamiya" brand a lot these days. Expensive, but usually gives good results most every time.

Keep trying!

Good Luck....

Mike

[Speedfreak]

Thanks you guys, Mike I think part of it is impatience. I'm laughing now because evey time I start to paint I've got all this BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH going through my head; "How much is the wind blowing?, How long has the can been in the water? How far away from the body/part do I need to be when spraying? How fast/slow should I move across the surface? How long do I need to wait between coats? And when I do wait 10-15 minutes it doesn't seem to help. (I'm still laughing) etc,.etc,. then I get stressed out and for a few minutes it will appear to look ok and then the trouble starts to appear Anyway Mike, I have that book from the 'old' days and have re-read it. It's just too much info, I think I just need more practical hands on experience, so I think I might try shooting some of the spoons I bought, (I have a whole box of them). I also painted in my garage today (no temp control either) and things where a little better. I've been using Krylon 'Fusion' for plastic lately although I did have a can of Tamiya which seemed good, I just can't afford the stuff right now. Is there a paint school somewhere? I love this hobby so, practice, practice, practice, right? Your posts have given me hope, thanks.

[o-man]

Gene I feel your pain. One car I nail the paint where after polish it doesn't need to be cleared and the next one looks like BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH. I too paint outside. It almost sounds like you may be putting on too heavy of a coat? There are a bunch of tutorials listed on site. It may just take practice practice practice.

[Speedfreak]

Hey Oscar, (green!) Funny, I went out side last night and sprayed a spoon. It was dark, humid and a little windy, spoon came out perfect, go figure. I'll do some more searching on this site, but, so far haven't come up with much for rattle cans. Too heavy may be a big part of the problem, which gets into 'how fast, how close' with the can. I'll get there, practice, practice........, Oh, and practice. Thanks for the post man.

[Mike Kucaba]

I'm a little confused here. Your name under your avatar is Gene XXXXX, But in your sig line is Bill XXXXX?

Anyway, I know I'll catch some flak here, but ditch the Krylon and move to one of the better Lacquers like Tamiya. I KNOW they are costly, but what about the cost of multiple failed paint jobs. Even the Testor's Line of Lacquers is a step up.

[cobraman]

He maybe just quoting Bill.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 10/29/2013 at 4:52 PM, Mike Kucaba said:

Anyway, I know I'll catch some flak here, but ditch the Krylon and move to one of the better Lacquers like Tamiya. I KNOW they are costly, but what about the cost of multiple failed paint jobs. Even the Testor's Line of Lacquers is a step up.

You also mention Krylon Fusion, which CAN be too hot for some of the more recent kit-styrenes. It's called "Fusion" because it has hot solvents that 'bite' into the plastic, and on SOME plastics, it will produce a 'crazed' effect that you just can't get rid of.

And painting on spoons is okay for checking colors, but (1) they're typically made of a harder, more solvent-resistant plastic than recent models are and (2) you just can't learn control of the spray pattern, and how fast and how close to make your passes, and how much to overlap passes, by painting spoons. You need to get a scrap body and practice on that.

The Testors lacquers Mike suggests can give excellent results. This model was painted with all rattlecan Testors lacquers, and HAS NOT been sanded and polished in this shot...just to give you some encouragement about what's possible with rattlecans. And yes, practice, practice, practice.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Speedfreak]

You can put whatever you want in the signature space. It's just something Bill said in one of the threads about rattle can paints.

[Mike Kucaba]

Okay, At my age & medication level, I get confused easily

Also I concur with Ace about spraying spoons and bodies. You really do need to shoot bodies to get a feel for distance, speed etc, but the spoons are invaluable for testing weird colors and bases. For instance, I mixed up some concoction of leftover colors and it looked good in the bottle. I was really stunned ( and pleased) at how the color looked under gray and white bases. The white made it look bold, like for a custom, the gray muted it to a gold very close to a Ford factory color from the '60's > BTW , I use plastic Soup spoons, that have a bigger bowl than the regular size.

[cobraman]

  On 10/29/2013 at 5:14 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

You also mention Krylon Fusion, which CAN be too hot for some of the more recent kit-styrenes. It's called "Fusion" because it has hot solvents that 'bite' into the plastic, and on SOME plastics, it will produce a 'crazed' effect that you just can't get rid of.

And painting on spoons is okay for checking colors, but (1) they're typically made of a harder, more solvent-resistant plastic than recent models are and (2) you just can't learn control of the spray pattern, and how fast and how close to make your passes, and how much to overlap passes, by painting spoons. You need to get a scrap body and practice on that.

The Testors lacquers Mike suggests can give excellent results. This model was painted with all rattlecan Testors lacquers, and HAS NOT been sanded and polished in this shot...just to give you some encouragement about what's possible with rattlecans. And yes, practice, practice, practice.

I see this model from time to time as a reference and I never get tired of seeing it. Beautiful model.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 10/29/2013 at 10:38 PM, cobraman said:

I see this model from time to time as a reference and I never get tired of seeing it. Beautiful model.

Thanks Ray. I wonder sometimes if it looks like I'm screaming "look at me", but I'm really only trying to encourage some of the folks getting frustrated with rattle-can results, to show what's possible after a little practice...I hope this is understood by everyone. It's far from perfect, but I think it looks pretty good for spraybombs.

[Speedfreak]

Thanks you guys, the tips are invaluble to me right now. I guess I will stop using 'Fusion. Ok, so lacuqer it will be. And I have a test body I can use.

Is Dupli-Color Lacquer?

Two more things: Yesterday I painted the hood of a Willy's with Testors Semi-gloss gray primer and then shot it with some Fusion. The results were better but I only waited like 5 minutes after the primer coat, should I have waited 15, or, 30 minutes?

Last one: When using brush enamel should i be thinning it with Testors thinner/cleaner or Lacquer thinner?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Duplicolor is usually lacquer, yes. If you want to shoot metallics, try their pearl colors. The flakes are smaller, so you avoid the bass-boat, kustom-kar look (like on my Chevelle)...unless that's the look you're after.

Duplicolor's high-build sandable primers, in several colors, work great for finishing minor bodywork, and their sandable primers work very well on plastic that doesn't need much in the way of scratch filling.

And yes, you should really wait a couple of days, minimum, before painting over primer. The solvents evaporate out of primer over time, so it shrinks somewhat. Painting over it too soon tends to trap the solvents, delay thorough drying, and over time, tends to encourage gloss failure as the materials continue to shrink.

If you're airbrushing enamels, the paint guru Donn Yost recommends thinning it with cheap lacquer thinner. His results prove he knows whereof he speaks.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[cobraman]

  On 10/29/2013 at 11:44 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Thanks Ray. I wonder sometimes if it looks like I'm screaming "look at me", but I'm really only trying to encourage some of the folks getting frustrated with rattle-can results, to show what's possible after a little practice...I hope this is understood by everyone. It's far from perfect, but I think it looks pretty good for spraybombs.

Bill, I don't think for a second that you are saying "look at me ". I think that this build is a great example or reference for the topic your replying to. I just love this car !

[ToyLvr]

I just bought a can of Krylon "Fusion" today, so I guess I'll have to test it first to see if it really is too "hot" for the styrene in my kit.

I'm working on an older kit from he 1990s, so maybe it has "real" styrene in it instead of hat rubbery stuff we get in the newer kits.

Should be interesting....

[maltsr]

http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=35#.UnCaVab2_rc

Someone else posted this link in another thread. Although it refers to Tamiya paints, it's well worth reading. I use Tamiya paints a lot and have found that curved surfaces do not exhibit as much orange peel as flat panels - anyone else experience this or know why it happens? This may mean that the spoon test is misleading as far as surface finish goes.

[Speedfreak]

  On 10/30/2013 at 1:59 AM, ToyLvr said:

I just bought a can of Krylon "Fusion" today, so I guess I'll have to test it first to see if it really is too "hot" for the styrene in my kit.

I'm working on an older kit from he 1990s, so maybe it has "real" styrene in it instead of hat rubbery stuff we get in the newer kits.

Should be interesting....

Mike, what I've experienced with Fusion is that after a few minutes, (at first it looks like a flawless paint job), there starts to appear these little 'ripples/bumps' in the paint that just continue to grow, so you can watch your paint job destroy itself in slow motion.

Bill, do you have an example of 'Crazeing' that you could post? 'Cause I'm not sure if what I'm getting is standard 'orange peel' or 'Crazeing.

[slusher]

To me paint is thinner then it was 10 years ago...

[Ace-Garageguy]

I don't have any really good macro shots of paint crazing, but this is one example pulled off line...the paint here is attacking the undercoats in some areas...no telling why. It's almost the same appearance as hitting it with stripper.

This is actually fiberglass gelcoat crazing, but it looks a lot like what you'll see after a few minutes, shooting a 'hot' paint over a 'soft' styrene...(minus the big cracks)

This is another indicator of crazing as a result of hot paint attacking molded styrene. Some areas are more seriously affected than others, and you can often see where the 'swirls' in the plastic, created during the molding process, are accentuated by the attacking paint.

It DOES sound like you're having crazing issues, as standard orange peel is the result of spraying too dry, or from too far away from the subject, and it's usually immediately visible as the paint droplets partially dry in the air, and fail to flow out on the surface. If your paint is going on wet and looking slick and glossy, and then developing a texture as it flashes, it's almost certainly a result of the solvents attacking and wrinkling the surface of the plastic itself, of the primer you're using.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Speedfreak]

Bill thanks for the photos! Yes! That is exactly what I've been getting. And as I stated earlier, the paint appears to be flawless for the first few minutes and then the 'crazing' sets in. It's nice to know what is going wrong. Thanks again Bill for posting the pics, I'm sure I'm not the only one that will benefit from these examples. I did a search (your suggested method) on Goggle and there were several links but none that i saw contained photo's of 'crazing.