Question For Mcm...

[Billy Kingsley]

When Winston left Winston Cup at the end of 2003....it wasn't because of NASCAR not caring about it's past (I never figured that sentiment out, that ran so rampant through most of NASCAR fandom) it was because the Government forced them to. They had until IIRC 2006 to get out the sport completly, and any time after 2000 RJ Reynolds was getting fined by the US Government every year, simply for sponsoring NASCAR! I believe the same set up was in place for NHRA, but I don't know for sure as I don't "do" drag racing as a general rule.

It is also illegal for any of the diecast companys to make tobacco sponsored cars in any scale, and I believe the same was true with decals for models. You notice Slixx never did any Harry Gant or Ken Schrader decals!

The Government still won't let them make the so-called Hard Licqor cars. It's actually illegal to make a Clint Bowyer. Jamie McMurray or Robby Gordon car accurately in 1/64!

I have to say, I've been watching alcohol and tobacco cars, and rooting for them since I was 8 years old back in 1992. I never once tried tobocco or alcohol, and I likely never will. I enjoy having full brain capacaty, and I, like all people SHOULD be, am smart enough to make my own decisions.

Back in 1996 or so, I was at a card show in the local mall. Some dealer had a 1995 Kenny Schrader RCCA car for sale. He would not sell it to me even though my mom was there with me. He refused to take the money from my hand, I had to give it to my mom and SHE had to be the one to give him the money before I would get the car. Which she instantly handed to me. I nearly expected his head to pop off ala cartoons. Sad, sad, state of affairs when people are not even trusted to think for themselves!

By the way, Jamie, you are going to love a project I'm beginning to work on. Every Skoal #1 or 0 there was...I've already got one of the Oldsmobiles and the 1993 Ford in progress, and the other 3 Olds will not be far off either! This will encompass 4 Rick Mast, 1 Terry Labonte and 1 Irv Hoerr builds...

Edited November 21, 2007 by Billy Kingsley

[Brendan]

When Winston left Winston Cup at the end of 2003....it wasn't because of NASCAR not caring about it's past (I never figured that sentiment out, that ran so rampant through most of NASCAR fandom) it was because the Government forced them to. They had until IIRC 2006 to get out the sport completly, and any time after 2000 RJ Reynolds was getting fined by the US Government every year, simply for sponsoring NASCAR! I believe the same set up was in place for NHRA, but I don't know for sure as I don't "do" drag racing as a general rule.

It is also illegal for any of the diecast companys to make tobacco sponsored cars in any scale, and I believe the same was true with decals for models. You notice Slixx never did any Harry Gant or Ken Schrader decals!

The Government still won't let them make the so-called Hard Licqor cars. It's actually illegal to make a Clint Bowyer. Jamie McMurray or Robby Gordon car accurately in 1/64!

I have to say, I've been watching alcohol and tobacco cars, and rooting for them since I was 8 years old back in 1992. I never once tried tobocco or alcohol, and I likely never will. I enjoy having full brain capacaty, and I, like all people SHOULD be, am smart enough to make my own decisions.

Back in 1996 or so, I was at a card show in the local mall. Some dealer had a 1995 Kenny Schrader RCCA car for sale. He would not sell it to me even though my mom was there with me. He refused to take the money from my hand, I had to give it to my mom and SHE had to be the one to give him the money before I would get the car. Which she instantly handed to me. I nearly expected his head to pop off ala cartoons. Sad, sad, state of affairs when people are not even trusted to think for themselves!

By the way, Jamie, you are going to love a project I'm beginning to work on. Every Skoal #1 or 0 there was...I've already got one of the Oldsmobiles and the 1993 Ford in progress, and the other 3 Olds will not be far off either! This will encompass 4 Rick Mast, 1 Terry Labonte and 1 Irv Hoerr builds...

As far as I know about tobacco and alcohol decals, the only law that I'm aware of is that you can not sell them to anyone under age. The reason why you don't see a whole lot in decals is that most of them are trademarked. The decal makers don't want to pay for the rights to use the trademark. (A very close friend of mine was sued for using the Bosch logo on a kit he produced.)

Like I said in a previous post, Revell did release kits with alcohol decals but could not be sold to anyone under age. And for diecast companies, I've seen several with alcohol and tobacco decals on them, but the same thing applies, you have to be of age to buy them. I think it's more a matter of the market place where the majority of the companies are targeting kids but the people actually buying the product are adults. But the government sees them as being toys for kids.

[Billy Kingsley]

As far as I know about tobacco and alcohol decals, the only law that I'm aware of is that you can not sell them to anyone under age. The reason why you don't see a whole lot in decals is that most of them are trademarked. The decal makers don't want to pay for the rights to use the trademark. (A very close friend of mine was sued for using the Bosch logo on a kit he produced.)

Like I said in a previous post, Revell did release kits with alcohol decals but could not be sold to anyone under age. And for diecast companies, I've seen several with alcohol and tobacco decals on them, but the same thing applies, you have to be of age to buy them. I think it's more a matter of the market place where the majority of the companies are targeting kids but the people actually buying the product are adults. But the government sees them as being toys for kids.

All the Tobocco ones were produced before 2000. Beleive me, 1/64 NASCAR diecast is my #1 hobby! The only one I'd have to check on is the QVC exlcusive 30 Years set which included the Kodiak car Rusty won the 1989 Championship with, but that set may have been issued in 2000, hard to remember after this time.

It's illegal for them to make the Hard Licqor cars in 1/64. Like I said, no Jack Daniel's, Jim Beam or Crown Royal allowed. The Bud and Miller Lite are made, and the Coors is supposed to be made, but they are sealed on a base. Those are considered soft licquor.

By the way....This info came from a Motorsports Authentics employee.

[Brendan]

All the Tobocco ones were produced before 2000. Beleive me, 1/64 NASCAR diecast is my #1 hobby! The only one I'd have to check on is the QVC exlcusive 30 Years set which included the Kodiak car Rusty won the 1989 Championship with, but that set may have been issued in 2000, hard to remember after this time.

It's illegal for them to make the Hard Licqor cars in 1/64. Like I said, no Jack Daniel's, Jim Beam or Crown Royal allowed. The Bud and Miller Lite are made, and the Coors is supposed to be made, but they are sealed on a base. Those are considered soft licquor.

By the way....This info came from a Motorsports Authentics employee.

That's good to know. I didn't even think about it being hard licquor. I think it's a silly law since most of the people who buy them are adults. If you're 21, you should be able to buy what you want.

[Harry P.]

This whole issue of tobacco/alcohol decals not being "allowed" on diecast models is pretty silly, IMO.

If Little Tommy buys a diecast model with Home Depot markings, is he suddenly going to get the urge to try remodeling the kitchen???

[CAL]

This whole issue of tobacco/alcohol decals not being "allowed" on diecast models is pretty silly, IMO.

If Little Tommy buys a diecast model with Home Depot markings, is he suddenly going to get the urge to try remodeling the kitchen???

See what over-educated-lefties do! This is exactly the reasoning they use, so they're going to tell you what decals you can and cannot put on your models.

I guess it's ok if Little Tommy remodels the kitchen.

Hummm wasn't there a Viagra sponcered car? I wonder how that fits into the picture. Opps, I souldn't have said that. They are probably monitering this thread.

I guess Homedept isn't the only place where you can get wood.

Edited November 21, 2007 by CAL

[Brendan]

See what over-educated-lefties do! This is exactly the reasoning they use, so they're going to tell you what decals you can and cannot put on your models.

I guess it's ok if Little Tommy remodels the kitchen.

Hummm wasn't there a Viagra sponcered car? I wonder how that fits into the picture. Opps, I souldn't have said that. They are probably monitering this tread.

I guess Homedept isn't the only place where you can get wood.

I think you have to be 21 to buy that kit too .

[Modelmartin]

See what over-educated-lefties do! This is exactly the reasoning they use, so they're going to tell you what decals you can and cannot put on your models.

So you think you know what reasoning I use, HUH! I am an over-educated leftie and you can put whatever the blank you want on your models! Sheesh! It is really aggravating to see people blame everything they don't like on us "lefties". Turn off the talk radio, start up your brain and figure out why things happen. It is because a majority of people want it to happen or don't care if it happens. Things don't happen without the consent of the governed. That is real basic.

Those of us who are progressive/liberal have opinions in all shapes and sizes. Many of us are very libertarian. I think the state sponsored extortion of the tobacco companies is wrong. It is a legal product. If people are suicidal enough to use it - that's fine. I don't want to pay for their health insurance however but I am forced to. I drink beer and hard licquor. I like fast cars and I don't denigrate people who I disagree with.

[James Flowers]

You all are talking about alcolhol and tobacco now . What will you do when you can not use a fast food decal ?They will make it illegal as the health police are on the move. If it makes you fat or unhealthy, you will not be able advertise. Don't believe?, just look around in all news cast . The question is when will the sheep wake up before they have no rights at all? Just my two cents

[CAL]

I've been asking that for over 20 years!

They will eventually.

Then the question will be.

Anarchy?

Civil War?

Chaos…

The sheep are asleep... for now. Hey what a great bumper sticker.

However, I never intended this to be a political debate.

Back to Eleanor.

[Darin Bastedo]

And YET it's ok to access porno from a PUBLIC library computer without any filters in place! Amazing

The lack of fiters for porn is not a policy issue but is a technical issue. there isn't a filter that works that doesn't also interfere with legitimate research. if you don't belive me load one of the "adult content" filters on you computers and try to look up info on Sexually transitted diseases, or sex education. If your filter allows that I bet it doesn't work well at filtering the other stuff either. IANA is working on introducing a .XXX sufix for URLs and if there was a worldwide mandate that all adult site use that suffix, designing a filter would be easy. you would simply block all .xxx URLs. But until that happens we have to deal with keyword filtering, which unfortunately doesn't work with untagged image files and is very easy to get around.

[Darin Bastedo]

To answer your question Harry.... yes!

I believe in moderation and if a computer in the public library is not filtered, then children should not be allowed in the building. I filter my computer and do not allow my children to access the Internet in private, period dot! The only computer access in my house is found in public spaces! So how can you liken that type of parental control to life in totalitarian countries like China and North Korea? It frankly amazes me how some people, in such haste to make a point, jump to drastic conclusions.

Harry, my prodigies are nearly all adults now. All three exited High School with 4.0 grades! The oldest is married and a supervisor at a local Costco. The second is a Junior at George Fox University and has volunteered and paid his own way to New Orleans TWICE, working to rebuild private housing there in the “Katrina†destroyed 5th Ward. My youngest is still a junior in High School and to each one of them I am equally PROUD! No drugs, no pregnancies, and a deep respect for God and Country!

So Harry, please do not disrespect my parental opinions by comparing my ideas and thoughts to those of a totalitarian dictator. Just because we both breathe does not mean we are alike.

Jairus, I don't think harry was questioning your parenting dicisions, but your opinion on allowing the government, in the form of our public libraries to censor the internet. You have every right to control what you feel your kids should be exposed to, but that doesn't extend to telling the rest of us what we can and cannot do. If you are concerned about the libraries accompany your kid when they go. after all most public libraries also have some adult oriented books, but that doesn't mean that they should remove those from the shelves. It is your right to control what your kids are exposed to, but with that right also comes responsibility. It is your responsibility, not the government's to limit your childrens exposure to adult content no matter what form it takes.

[Darin Bastedo]

So you think you know what reasoning I use, HUH! I am an over-educated leftie and you can put whatever the F@CK you want on your models! Sheesh! It is really aggravating to see people blame everything they don't like on us "lefties". Turn off the talk radio, start up your brain and figure out why things happen. It is because a majority of people want it to happen or don't care if it happens. Things don't happen without the consent of the governed. That is real basic.

Those of us who are progressive/liberal have opinions in all shapes and sizes. Many of us are very libertarian. I think the state sponsored extortion of the tobacco companies is wrong. It is a legal product. If people are suicidal enough to use it - that's fine. I don't want to pay for their health insurance however but I am forced to. I drink beer and hard licquor. I like fast cars and I don't denigrate people who I disagree with.

Amen Brother!

[jamie]

However, I never intended this to be a political debate.

My feelings exactly! I hope Michael Moore doesn't start reading this....

Billy, start posting those chew cars buddy! I can't wait to see them in March!

[Aaronw]

The lack of fiters for porn is not a policy issue but is a technical issue. there isn't a filter that works that doesn't also interfere with legitimate research. if you don't belive me load one of the "adult content" filters on you computers and try to look up info on Sexually transitted diseases, or sex education. If your filter allows that I bet it doesn't work well at filtering the other stuff either. IANA is working on introducing a .XXX sufix for URLs and if there was a worldwide mandate that all adult site use that suffix, designing a filter would be easy. you would simply block all .xxx URLs. But until that happens we have to deal with keyword filtering, which unfortunately doesn't work with untagged image files and is very easy to get around.

No kidding, I've ended up with porn while using the key words M4 Sherman tank.

[theflame]

There was an interesting issue with Marlboro decals getting withdrawn recently, whilst we're on the subject:

http://www.automodelling.com/news.php?id=5&s_id=12

Which is fair enough I guess, it is their brand and if someone recreates their logo they oughta get paid.

[jamie]

Couple things wrong with that statement ...

I won't comment on one, because Andy Martin has already done so quite eloquently.

Regarding the other ... no one is dictating to anyone what markings they can or can't put on their models. You can build tobacco-sponsored cars to your heart's content by using older decals, by making your own decals or by having someone custom-make them for you. Or, there's always hand-painting.

For that matter, one also has the freedom to build a fictitious Hustler-sponsored race car with artwork of a naked, splayed-out female on the hood. However, if one chooses to do so, one should probably not expect to see it in the pages of a general-circulation magazine available to minors, either.

If you've read my posts earlier, I have already said that. I will continue to build my models and at the same time realizing that they will not be published. I honestly don't care if I NEVR get into a mag. I really don't... The purpose of my thread was too see if there was a legal reason, and if anyone else has run into this predicament.

Yes, I buy decals from Mike, I get decals from Chimneyville, from Slixx, you name it. And, I never said people are telling me I CAN'T build a certain model. That's just crazy....

[CAL]

I didn't mean to offend anyone.

The fact is that virtually every bit of legislature, campaign and proponent of anti-smoking that led us to this point is virtually exclusively Democrat. I am not sure I could even name a single Republican.

If there is such a large movement and laws against smoking advertising and sponsorship that makes it hard to get decals to put on a model who else is there to blame?

So there is validation for the statement I made regardless if you like it or not.

However there is a solid reasoning behind the statement I made.

Fact: there are no mainstreem kits sold with tobacco decals. It is harder and harder to find tobacco decals, models with tobacco decals are not likely to be published - so in a sense you are being told don't put tobacco decals on your models, sponsoring cars has been virtually banned world wide.

Granted that is not the exactly verbage used, but the underlying intent is clearly there.

If it wasn't true you could buy a model kit with tabacco decals off the shelf at your LHS or Wally World, you could build it and get published in a mag without anyone ever saying a word about it, and who by and large created this? Democrates.

It's just simple facts. Nothing to get overly excited about, and I am sorry if I got your undies in a bunch.

[Modelmartin]

Oh believe me when I say my undies are not bunched. I am quite used to it. You can slam Democrats all you want because I do also. I do it because they are too timid and centrist for my taste. You did say over-educated lefties, however. I do take exception to name-calling because it overly polarizes any discussion. It pisses me off, too!

I think another big factor in the "forbidden" controversy is the legal liability issues. Too many plaintiffs found lawyers who would file a suit for them because they were too stupid to figure out that smoking is bad for you or drinking heavily will destroy your liver and make you a dangerous driver. Of course they want a piece of the deep pockets that the cigarette and alcohol companies have. Then there are the people who think the cigarette companies are to blame for their kids smoking instead of looking in the mirror.

When you get down to it mankind is just a motley collection of hairless apes. I no longer expect logic and intelligence to win out on a regular basis on any issue.

Enough bla bla bla from me. Back to model cars for me!

[lordairgtar]

I don't understand the concept of over-education. How can someone be over-educated? Never can have enough knowledge. It's the under-educated ones I worry about.

[Darin Bastedo]

I don't understand the concept of over-education. How can someone be over-educated? Never can have enough knowledge. It's the under-educated ones I worry about.

If you are "over-educated" you are harder to control. the secret to gaining power is keep the masses stupid and passive. If they can't think for yourself, then they'll let someone else do it for them. Why do you think school budgets keep getting cut? When I was a kid all you had to bring to school was Paper, pen, pencil, and an eraser. These days you have to provide everything. My nephew's school list includes Paper towels, tissues and soap. SOAP! I remember when the schools could at the very least afford soap for the washrooms.

It is usually either the under-educated or those who wish to "keep you down" who believe you can be "over-educated". These are the same people who Called me "unpatriotic" for questioning the wisdom of the president. (this isn't meant to be partisan, considering that IMHO Clinton was boob sometimes too.) What amazes me is that 1,000s of people a day start smoking, even though it says right on the package thet it will kill you. If that is normal, I'll proudly take my place in the ranks of the "over-educated".

[Modelmartin]

Our colorful former Minnesota Governor Jesse"The Body" Ventura who was Independence party called them Demo-crips and Re-blood-icans referencing the well known street gangs!

[Modelmartin]

I think a fun model car challenge would be racecars sponsored by "BAD" products. How cool would it be to have a Crystal Meth sponsored NASCAR entry or Acapulco Gold sponsored drift car! The possibilities are endless UZI, Lawn Darts, Diet Crack! Trans-fat top fueler!

[Aaronw]

I think a fun model car challenge would be racecars sponsored by "BAD" products. How cool would it be to have a Crystal Meth sponsored NASCAR entry or Acapulco Gold sponsored drift car! The possibilities are endless UZI, Lawn Darts, Diet Crack! Trans-fat top fueler!

Lawn darts, BB guns, jacks, home radiation lab, I am all over the dangerous toys sponsored car.

[jamie]

And if you'd bothered to read my post more closely, you'd realize I was not responding to anything that you said, but to CAL's comments, and that I never even implied that you had said people were trying to tell you what markings you could and could not put on your models.

Sorry Ken, I thought you were referring to me......whoops...