Looks like I must start all over!

[addicted2modeling]

Ok, we all know that old saying: "At first you don't succeed, try, try again". Anyway, I messed up big time, I have start all over from scratch. But now that I must do this all over, what should I have done differently that what I did at first? To start this discussion, I will describe what I did first. First I washed the cab in lukewarm water and with Dial soap. I rinsed it completely and let it air dry. I wet sand the cab with a 1000 grit sandpaper and I applied 2 coats of primer, one light mist coat and one wet coat. I wet sand the cab with a 600 grit sandpaper to smooth out the body and then hit with a 3 light mist coats, which I did at night after a rainy day, which I know was my mistake. Even though it was nice and cool and no rain, the humidity still lingers, in fact I avoid painting late at night because I checked my phone and the humidity gets as high as 91%, despite a dry day. So after the light mist coats, which came out kind of pinkish, I hit it with 2 wet coats. It came out red like I want it but was rather dull, flat and lusterless..So bad that when I applied Meguiars polishing compound, I noticed some orange peel. I fixed that problem with the Turtle's Headlamp restoring kit, which contact a multi-step fine grit sand discs. It made it look a whole lot better, but there was still some rough spots. Also since I want to make this a two-tone color truck, I decided to paint the bottom end first then mask it off and proceed with the top end when I strip off all the paint of this cab. Enough with my side of the story, what is yours? Could you guys give me a better tips since most of you guys are very experience in modeling?

That picture you saw enclosed was caused by applying that Tamiya masking tape and then removing after only 45 seconds of application..Looks like I have a big problem.

Edited September 28, 2014 by addicted2modeling

[fantacmet]

Well I use frog tape for delicate surface these days. In the area where you are painting(if it is indoors), maybe a bucket of DRI-Z-AIR? To help kill the humidity.AC works goof for that as well. I'm in the pacific northwest so we have lots of rain. You still have an adhesion problem though. What kind of condition is the paint in? How old is it? Could be your reducer is more sensitive to humidity, so a different one might be in order.

[addicted2modeling]

It was brand new when I bought it at Advance Auto parts. Its a duplicolor victory red.

[bobthehobbyguy]

I don't think the red paint is the issue. How old is the primer. Also the 1000 may be light to start with you might want to use the 600 before the primer. You really need to be sure that you scuff the entire body. You might want to try some experiments with spoons. Do want you did originally on one with the 1000 and another with 600.

side note you should open a new topic in modeling questions. Call it paint problems or something to the effect. More people will see it and somebody else that is having the same problems is more likely to see. You will also make the mods happy also.

[addicted2modeling]

Primer is brand new too.

[kilrathy10]

To be honest, Bro, I think you're gonna have to let it dry a little longer.....Granted, Duplicolor dries FAST, but if you're gonna mask, you need to hit it with some Future floor polish, first.....Seriously, just brush it on.....Then, let it dry for at least 2 days before you mask....Then use some BLUE masking tape on it....Then, should the tape pull anything up AT ALL, it will just be the polish.....But, I don't think that will happen if you do this....I know....It sounds counter intuitive that it could be this simple, but I've done it so many times....Living here with this humidity, I've had to develop alternative methods..... The results will astound you.....

Edited September 29, 2014 by kilrathy10

[bobthehobbyguy]

Is the dial a hand washing soap or dishwashing soap? The handsoap has moisturizers in it which can be causing your problem.

[Guest]

Bob is right. I never sand the body with finer grit than 600 before primer. I also sand the entire body. It's especially important if you're planning on doing any amount of masking on the paint. I would also recommend that you get a roll of Tamiya masking tape or at the very least a roll of blue painter's tape. Also, don't leave any tape on for too long. I unmask mine as soon as I'm done painting.

[addicted2modeling]

Is the dial a hand washing soap or dishwashing soap? The handsoap has moisturizers in it which can be causing your problem.

hand washing soap..the one that has a premixed lather.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Your greasy soap is almost certainly part of the cause.

Problems like these are why I now scuff my bare plastic bodies with Comet of SoftScrub, an old toothbrush, and plenty of hot water.

Sandpaper can NOT get into all the fine crevices and creases, but a thorough scuffing with an abrasive cleanser (like Comet) will do it, without softening any details. Sandpaper will tend to round-off and soften details, and if you're aware of this, the tendency is to go light with it, which also limits how well the surface is scuffed.

It's important to look carefully at the surface after you've dried the model, to make SURE you've scuffed every area to where you can't see any shine.

I'd also recommend a final wash with clean paper towels and 70% isopropyl alcohol just before you paint. Wear latex or nitrile gloves to protect your hands, and to prevent transferring skin oils to the model once it's clean. Oil from your skin can also cause adhesion and fisheye problems.

I'm sure this all sounds like way too much trouble and overkill, but since I started doing these things, I don't have any paint problems at all.

[bobthehobbyguy]

Yup the Dial is a big part of the problem as it has moisturizers for your hands The purpose of washing is to remove the contaminants from the surface

Aces procedure is the way to go for prep

Edited September 30, 2014 by bobthehobbyguy

[JohnU]

Dawn dish washing liquid is designed to cut grease. It's also used to clean critters caught in oil spills! It's also been recommended somewhere else in this forum for removing mold release from plastic models.

[Speedfreak]

Tony, that truck is definately headed for some kind of pond, I just tried LA's Awsome, got it at Dollar General for $4 I think, half gallon. Stuff took MM enamel off really well, 24hrs and it's just white plastic. Far better (quicker) results than Purple Power.

I'm having the same problems with paint drying dull after wet coats, (see post) and I'm using the same kind of paint you are. Sounds like you are painting outside? Which is what I do, and , I think the high humidity causes the paint to dry dull. It's happened twice to me this week, once with Tamiya, and, today with Dupli-Color.

I'm not sure what's causing your paint to peel off though, some basic principle with tape, or , paint drying times, or , both that you're overlooking. I'll be following to see how things turn out for you.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Tony, that truck is definately headed for some kind of pond, I just tried LA's Awsome, got it at Dollar General for $4 I think, half gallon. Stuff took MM enamel off really well, 24hrs and it's just white plastic. Far better (quicker) results than Purple Power. The OP used Duplicolor "Victory Red" (post #3), so the purple stuff or Awesome may not strip it. Something like diluted acetone or 90% isopropyl MAY be necessary. TEST FIRST.

I'm having the same problems with paint drying dull after wet coats, (see post) and I'm using the same kind of paint you are. Sounds like you are painting outside? Which is what I do, and , I think the high humidity causes the paint to dry dull. It's happened twice to me this week, once with Tamiya, and, today with Dupli-Color. High humidity is well known to cause paint, particularly lacquer products, to dry "dull". It's called "blushing", and it can simply be polished out after drying, or painted over. Best practice is to paint when relative humidity is under 60%, and temperature between 60deg and 85deg F.

I'm not sure what's causing your paint to peel off though, some basic principle with tape, or , paint drying times, or , both that you're overlooking. I'll be following to see how things turn out for you. ​Adhesion problem, caused by insufficient prep or surface contamination.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Speedfreak]

Thanks Bill! You are the man! But, I really don't appreciate you making it look like (with bold red print, inside my post!) that everything I said in my post was in some way incorrect, which is not at all the case. Maybe you should save the school master routine for some other forum.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Speedfreak

[jbwelda]

whoa panties in a wad time!

Tamiya tape should not do that...Sum Ting Wong. personally I leave things masked for at least an hour after spraying...I think you removed the tape too quick and it pulled the semi dry paint up with it.

edit: wait I may have read that wrong...the tape was only on the body for less than a minute, and it wasn't used to mask for painting? definitely an adhesion problem there somehow.

if you think you will have adhesion problems soak in Westleys bleach white for a day or so...it removes resin mold release so I am sure it would remove anything on a styrene body. personally I rarely if ever find adhesion problems with styrene whether I wash the body first or not, but I typically spray primer first just to find parting lines etc so that probably etches into the plastic and forms a good bond for the paint to lay on top of.

luckily I live in a dry area so humidity rarely affects things.

as for paint problems: welcome to the club. been griefing over paint myself lately. and it always seems to be the clear coat that gives me the most problem, but it is usually running or crazing, not lifting from the surface.

but remember: paint is the hardest part...just strip it and start again

jb

Edited October 1, 2014 by jbwelda

[Ace-Garageguy]

Thanks Bill! You are the man! But, I really don't appreciate you making it look like (with bold red print, inside my post!) that everything I said in my post was in some way incorrect, which is not at all the case. Maybe you should save the school master routine for some other forum.

Get over it. The only color that really shows up well to respond to specific stuff inside quotes is red.

Try some other colors and see what I mean.

Not my fault if you took it as implying anything else.

There's no magic with paint. It's a dumb chemical and physical process that responds to logic and practice.

Each of us develops his own methods that work consistently, and we do it faster if we pay attention, and learn from those members whose advice is backed up with good photographic results.

And even some of us who should know what they're doing by now (I mean me) occasionally have to strip something and start over. And you know why this happens? Not luck, magic, or the phase of the moon. It happens because we try to rush the process, or think "maybe this time I can get away with it".

Logic. Experience. Practice. Test first.

PS. I'm far from perfect, and anyone who thinks I think I am is delusional. The last 1:1 car I painted, I had to paint 3 times to get the quality the job demanded. I had to sand off the first two paint jobs and start over. Why? Because I didn't think through exactly what I was doing, I was using materials I wasn't familiar with, and I tried to rush the job in too-high humidity and temperature conditions.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[jbwelda]

>There's no magic with paint.

beg to differ. Voodoo might be a more appropriate phrase.

jb

[Ace-Garageguy]

>There's no magic with paint.

beg to differ. Voodoo might be a more appropriate phrase.

jb

OK. Disregard everything ever said about logic, reading instructions, paying attention to and recording what works, cause-and-effect, avoiding mixing different materials from different manufacturers, testing, practice, etc. Forget all that useless, silly stuff.

Instead, get a chicken... ..

and assorted expert helpers...

That should solve any paint issues you'll ever have. If that doesn't get it, try a cool hat.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[LoneWolf15]

>There's no magic with paint.

beg to differ. Voodoo might be a more appropriate phrase.

jb

Painting is merely a method , a series of concise steps to be taken each and every time until it becomes second nature .

There is no voodoo involved , unfortunately , old wive tales , misinformation , and a belief that the internet holds all the answers rule the day . Go to oldmansmodels.com and check out exactly how difficult it really is ...... The website will speak for itself along with a method that truly works .

Painting is only difficult if you allow it to be so . All you have to do is properly educate yourself .

Donn Yost

[jbwelda]

next time you read one of my posts, try to remove the stick from up there.

so what I mean is, even with all that knowledge, instructions, specifications, all that stuff there, you NEVER mess up a paint job?

I rest my case.

perhaps that rubber chicken and assorted dancers might help after all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibIhoZf1FhA

jb

[Ace-Garageguy]

next time you read one of my posts, try to remove the stick from up there.

so what I mean is, even with all that knowledge, instructions, specifications, all that stuff there, you NEVER mess up a paint job?

I rest my case.

perhaps that rubber chicken and assorted dancers might help after all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibIhoZf1FhA

jb

Which stick from up where?

I said in post 19 that, yes indeed, I occasionally screw up paint work, even on the 1:1 stuff...which costs a lot more time and money than a model.

And the ONLY REASON it ever happens is because I fail to follow tried-and-true, proven, best-practice methods. Period.

I rest MY case too.

[Speedfreak]

Get over it. The only color that really shows up well to respond to specific stuff inside quotes is red.

Try some other colors and see what I mean. Oh, the red was just fine (this is 'another color') the question is, why did you feel it neccessary to go 'inside' my post? For maximum effect? To make sure EVERYONE knew you were 'correcting' my post? Or, were you just trying to be helpful?

Not my fault if you took it as implying anything else.

I didn't think you were 'implying' anything, it was quite clear to me what you were doing. Just you being what you are at times on this board. Keep building!

There's no magic with paint. It's a dumb chemical and physical process that responds to logic and practice.

Each of us develops his own methods that work consistently, and we do it faster if we pay attention, and learn from those members whose advice is backed up with good photographic results.

And even some of us who should know what they're doing by now (I mean me) occasionally have to strip something and start over. And you know why this happens? Not luck, magic, or the phase of the moon. It happens because we try to rush the process, or think "maybe this time I can get away with it".

Logic. Experience. Practice. Test first.

PS. I'm far from perfect, and anyone who thinks I think I am is delusional. The last 1:1 car I painted, I had to paint 3 times to get the quality the job demanded. I had to sand off the first two paint jobs and start over. Why? Because I didn't think through exactly what I was doing, I was using materials I wasn't familiar with, and I tried to rush the job in too-high humidity and temperature conditions.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Speedfreak

[Ace-Garageguy]

. ..Oh, the red was just fine (this is 'another color') the question is, why did you feel it neccessary to go 'inside' my post? For maximum effect? To make sure EVERYONE knew you were 'correcting' my post? Or, were you just trying to be helpful?

... it was quite clear to me what you were doing. Just you being what you are at times on this board.

It's "helpful" sometimes when responding to a particular post to respond to one sentence or phrase at a time. This is most easily accomplished by responding in a different color, inside the post, to each individual sentence or phrase.

If you have a problem with my use of colors and my use of quotes, and my responses, and whatever it is you imply I am "at times on this board" (I don't call people names, by the way...which you are doing, ever so subtly...so you think) please feel free to report me to the moderators, or better yet, become one yourself and ban me from the site.

I'm really getting tired of being called out for "how" I say something, when the content of "what" I say is entirely overlooked.

I know a lot. From experience. I try to share my experience. I try to help. And if I DON'T know something, I don't post. Too bad more folks don't feel they should actually KNOW what they're talking about before offering advice.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Speedfreak]

Bill, You've helped me more than anyone on this site. I don't want this to continue. I'm sorry, I will try and be less sensitive in the future, keep building.

Gene