Bob Turner2 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Bob, Glad you have your opinion on these trucks and Moebius kits and your willingness to share them with us. It would seem, based on your statements, that there are numerous flaws with them, to the point of not being buildable, in your opinion, to render a satisfactory replica of the real car. If you could, please PM me a list of recent kits that are up to your standards so I can see what I might be missing when it comes to reviewing a kit. I don't want to derail this thread and keep it on topic of the upcoming Ford F series pickups. I'm sorry, but on this forum I do all my communicating out in the open. I have my PM's disabled & prefer it that way. I have no interest in getting into a debate by PM over things. Just for the record, these aren't my "opinions". They are observations made based on the evidence at hand. That test shot simply isn't accurate enough, & no amount of excuses or cheerleading can change that. If you can't see the accuracy flaws in the test shot in comparison to only the 1/1 but also to the tooling master than I simply don't know what else to tell you. The kit is likely buildable, but I personally wouldn't be happy with it on my shelf. All that a model car is supposed to do once finished is to look like an accurate miniature replica of the 1/1, nothing more & nothing less, if it is indeed meant to be a miniature replica of the 1/1, in other words, a replica stock model. It serves no other function on the shelf. That's also why I would never buy a diecast such as the one of a similar model Ford pickup as was shown a few pages back, as it didn't do any better of a job of replicating the 1/1 either, at least overall. It was closer in some areas, but not close enough in others. Edited July 21, 2014 by Bob Turner2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platerpants Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Theres an old saying, that my grandma goes by and i too have acquired "Nothing in this world is perfect" that being said an accurate model would have to based and produced by the manufacturing company (ie Ford, Chevy, IH, Nissan, Tesla) from the same blueprints as the 1:1 and made in a scale fully functional factory. Then there would still be inaccuracies. Some are worse like the revell 90 mustang(so i here, i hate fox bodies so i wont buy this kt) and some better like IH rigs from moebius. Let people decide what is worthy what is not its all part of being human, but dogging this kit so hard that it sounds like you would rather gouge yours eyes out come on, let us learn for ourselves. Im ford truck and mustang guy so no matter the inaccuracy i will buy this kit as its new to me and looks decent. Enjoy your paychecks guys, i will in my own ways. On topic im hoping that the hood gets fixed although i may just be crazy and it might be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petetrucker07 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Im not a ford guy. That being said, this kit looks good to me. I consider myself to have a little bit more than basic skills when it comes to building models. I, myself, dont look for perfection. There really is and never will be, to me, the perfect kit. Unless 1 comes out exactly whats in my head. Thats FUN about the HOBBY, making it, how you think is perfect. From the 1st kit i discovered changing things, rims, motors, steering wheels, whatever, i knew i liked custom, and figured i can build whatever i want. This ford pickup is an icon in fords history. Not even being a ford fan, ill pick 1 up, whenever it becomes available, and guess what, it more than likely will not be built box stock. Like platerpants said, nothing is perfect. I look forward to anything moebius puts out because their quality is fantastic, top notch. Id be proud to own 1 of these kits, and make it "my perfect". This truck is gonna be good 1 when its released. Im part of that 95% that doesnt know the difference if its perfect to a 1:1 or not. The moebius people are doing their best, thats all anyone can ask, of anyone. Moebius is doing a great job trying new things, making products better and keep their company moving forward. I respect that and support them as much as "my pocket" will let me. Keep going moebius, to me your doing great. Keep up the great work, this truck is looking good, and im sure the finish product will more than satisfy the majority of the consumer. Edited July 21, 2014 by Petetrucker07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 So far Moebius is zero for six in selling me one of their vehicle kits, & that's not including the Model King variants. I want to add that as far as subject matter on those six kits & variants goes, each one of them was a subject I had lusted after in scale for more years than I care to admit. The fact that they have yet to sell me a single one, due to major accuracy issues, speaks volumes. Me too. I figured I was the only one who hasn't bought a Moebius kit. My reason for not buying yet is that I've simply not been interested in anything they've produced until this kit was announced. I don't buy kits to support the hobby. I buy them because I want to build them. Buying kits to support the hobby is the reason we're getting what we're getting. If we lap up whatever they put out regardless of accuracy. Why would they (not just Moebius) do better? The attitude of " if we complain about inaccuracies and don't buy them, they'll go out of business!" is insane. If we don't buy them, they'll do better. If they don't do better, they deserve to go out of business. If you went to a restaurant, paid $25 for a meal and the food was lousy, would you still go there to eat to keep them from going out of business or would you eat somewhere else? If a kit has glaring inaccuracies, it has inaccuracies plain and simple. If they can be spotted in photos, they're probably worse in person. Defending this kit blindly is senseless IMO. But, there are those that if the people at [insert favorite brand] pooped in a box and sent it to them, they would say, "well, it's molded in brown and it smells really bad. But, we're modelers. We can fix it." It's 2014. The days of polishing turds should be over. To me, it doesn't matter how detailed a kit is or how well it goes together if the body doesn't look right, it's all for nothing. I'll just grab one my old kits with an accurate body/ lousy chassis details and build it. It's strange that I can get an old AMT or MPC kit from 40-50 years ago and build them without having to do any corrections to the body. But, I have to spend many hours on a kit body produced recently. Maybe, just maybe it's time for the kit companies to bring the tool cutting duties back where they belong. Here in the U.S.A. It would be even better if they were done "in house". Maybe then, the details wouldn't get "lost in translation" which seems to be the most popular excuse proceeded only by "there is no perfect kit" excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Turner2 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Me too. I figured I was the only one who hasn't bought a Moebius kit. My reason for not buying yet is that I've simply not been interested in anything they've produced until this kit was announced. I don't buy kits to support the hobby. I buy them because I want to build them. Buying kits to support the hobby is the reason we're getting what we're getting. If we lap up whatever they put out regardless of accuracy. Why would they (not just Moebius) do better? The attitude of " if we complain about inaccuracies and don't buy them, they'll go out of business!" is insane. If we don't buy them, they'll do better. If they don't do better, they deserve to go out of business. If you went to a restaurant, paid $25 for a meal and the food was lousy, would you still go there to eat to keep them from going out of business or would you eat somewhere else? If a kit has glaring inaccuracies, it has inaccuracies plain and simple. If they can be spotted in photos, they're probably worse in person. Defending this kit blindly is senseless IMO. But, there are those that if the people at [insert favorite brand] pooped in a box and sent it to them, they would say, "well, it's molded in brown and it smells really bad. But, we're modelers. We can fix it." It's 2014. The days of polishing turds should be over. To me, it doesn't matter how detailed a kit is or how well it goes together if the body doesn't look right, it's all for nothing. I'll just grab one my old kits with an accurate body/ lousy chassis details and build it. It's strange that I can get an old AMT or MPC kit from 40-50 years ago and build them without having to do any corrections to the body. But, I have to spend many hours on a kit body produced recently. Maybe, just maybe it's time for the kit companies to bring the tool cutting duties back where they belong. Here in the U.S.A. It would be even better if they were done "in house". Maybe then, the details wouldn't get "lost in translation" which seems to be the most popular excuse proceeded only by "there is no perfect kit" excuse. Bravo sir! I could not have said it better myself! Anyone that tries to argue even a single point of this accurate, on target & rational comment simply needs to reread it as many times as it takes for comprehesion to set in for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatz4u Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 PICK UP TRUCK QUESTION FOLLOWS; Release date on the 69 shorty anytime this year????Reason for above post: At my age, I don't even buy green bananas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petetrucker07 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Now let me say this. Being of mediocre skill, i dont worry about an oil filter not being right, or the wheels not quite correct. But the body does need to be right, look correct. Now im not 1 to build show room replicas or beaten or weathered models. I know there are hard core, scale replica builders out there, i can appreciate what they do, and what they do does looks great. I agree with you Bob, the body needs to be right, look correct, with little to no fixing by the builder. But you are doing, what i feel is the right thing, as far as i know, as i dont know you on any level besides what ive read on this thread. The best way to express your opinion on a product is to just not buy it. With that said, i wont by a kit, just to buy it, to support a company, cause or hobby, i build what i want. I have an idea already turning in my head for this kit, based on that i will buy it. I think i understand what your saying, you dont want perfect, but correct, if that makes sense. Yes the kit companies need to hold themselves to higher standard, not just put it out, to get it out. You are entitled to your opinion, as everyone is, thats all your doing here. I agree with some of your points and disagree with some. Thats human nature and you should not be ridiculed for your opinions. Not that what i say means anything to anybody. Now again, im of mediocre skill and will pick this kit up when it becomes available, because of the idea i have for this build, if it comes out how im picturing, chances are ill buy another, for 1 reason, because i want to. These companies are not by any stretch, holding a gun to our heads telling to buy our products or else. If you review a product or item, if it doesnt have good enough reviews for you, dont buy it, as you have said and done. There absolutely nothing wrong with that. I applaud anyone who does, because thats the best way to express your feelings of a product. If more time is needed to get this kit correct and get the quality of it better, i say take your time, im sure we will survive and the little longer wait will bring anticipation up, and in theory it will sell quickly. The more i look at the test shots, the more the wheels turn in my head on customizing this kit. Edited July 21, 2014 by Petetrucker07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatz4u Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 i agree!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 And I, on the other hand, have the hope-springs-eternal attitude of critiquing the kits but buying them anyway - I'll probably have a fourth copy of the Kit-That-Must-Not-Be-Named, thanks to all the goodies in the latest-version-that-should-have-been-first - not to mention a history of actually fixing a lot of the problems I harp on. Precisely ZERO of which has shag-all to do with anyone having eyes and brain enough to tell where a kit might be going off course or not in representing its subject. But my case (never mind myriad others) does expose the inanity in the angles you guys always use, groping to justify your hysterics at anybody pointing out issues in a kit. And as long you all exhibit such a comprehensive inability to deal with those criticisms without going all ad hominem on the critic, picking and pecking away at the barely veiled misdirections you decree to be necessary credentials, you will inevitably betray your reactions for the hysterics they are. E v e r have you done so, and EVER will you. And I'll tell y'all who's NOT GOING TO WIN: a n y b o d y who'd appoint himself sanitizer of whatever opinion he doesn't like in a discussion where criticism of the subject is to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemodeler Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I knew there was something I liked about you Chuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petetrucker07 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 In my opinion, the only thing i can see wrong is the door window opening is too far forward, giving this roof more of a dodge pickup look. If they move the rear door window post back, making the cab pillar smaller, that give it the ford roof. The windshield does look a little different, but when things are scaled down, they could look wrong or shaped weird. From the test shots, for me, if they fix the door window, thatll do it, unless im not seeing something or just dont know totally what to look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyg Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Wow. I think everyone needs to chill out. Ill continue to buy Moebius products if the subject they make interest me. I don't think I've ever seen a perfect model because it doesn't exist. I'm really hanging out to see what they will come up with next for class 8 truck fans. Cheers. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpeterbilt Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 All I have to say in reference to all of the panicking over flawed details, If the builder is skilled enough, it shouldnt be a challenge. Every kit Ive built has flaws, some bigger than others. The first kit that comes to mind is the AMT 70's Fords. These trucks are riddled with inaccuracy. But I fixed them and moved on. Its part of modeling guys. Wanting a buildable kit straight out of the box is just laziness! That makes you a gluer, not a builder. Thats what sets a great builder apart from a ten year old with glue on their windshields. Spot the flaws and fix them. If you choose not to spend your hard earned money on a flawed model then good, thats a few more for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Turner2 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) All I have to say in reference to all of the panicking over flawed details, If the builder is skilled enough, it shouldnt be a challenge. Every kit Ive built has flaws, some bigger than others. The first kit that comes to mind is the AMT 70's Fords. These trucks are riddled with inaccuracy. But I fixed them and moved on. Its part of modeling guys. Wanting a buildable kit straight out of the box is just laziness! That makes you a gluer, not a builder. Thats what sets a great builder apart from a ten year old with glue on their windshields. Spot the flaws and fix them. If you choose not to spend your hard earned money on a flawed model then good, thats a few more for the rest of us. What!?! Your analogy is roughly equivalent to saying if I want a good meal at a fine restaurant I have to cook it myself. That's completely off base. Wanting an accurate, buildable kit from what I purchased is laziness? Where do you get that idea? If I chose to modify or customize a kit, then yes, I should & do expect to do more work to get it to look like I envision. But for crying out loud, I shouldn't have to do their work for them to get a kit to the level of accuracy it should have been at in the first place. If all of this is part of model building, then why do I rarely have to do more than basic cleanup with a Tamiya or a Galaxie Ltd kit? Why did the Revell midget kits I built, (a shining example of Revell getting it right), just fall together? Why did my Moebius International ProStar, ( a shining example of Moebius getting it right), not only build up well, but look accurate & true to the 1/1 when completed? Why was my Moebius Frankenstein kit, (another that they got right), such a joy to build & so great in capturing the look of Boris Karloff as the Monster? That one did require a lot of putty in certain areas, as well as much flling & sanding of seams, but that's to be expected given the way those kits are designed & tooled up & as to how they assemble. it's not the amount of work involved in buidling a kit, it's the reason that the work is required. Trust me, I am far removed from a ten year old building a model with glue on the windshield & have been for years. I was building in the 70's as well, (the 60's also, to be exact), but this isn't the 70's anymore. My skills & abilities have indeed progressed from where they were 40+ years ago when I was that ten year old boy. Why shouldn't I expect the model manufacturers to have upped their game as well? It's not a matter of being "skilled enough", it's a matter of we shouldn't have to do this because Moebius or any other manufacturer didn't get it right. By your crteria we hould be happy if a model company put a block of wood in a box & said "Carve away at that until a 69 Ford pickup emerges." Edited July 22, 2014 by Bob Turner2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuzzed Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 There is a difference between a "buildable" kit and a kit with inaccuracies, although the causes for such problems might be the same. Many, if not most of us here do have the abilities to correct flaws in kits, but some flaws are of the "WTF" kind. There are no excuses on the manufacturer's part for those types of flaws. I've been building since 1960 and I don't want to have to overcome built-in obstacles such as a poor-fitting interior (but I will, because I have to), much less fix incorrect body contours or dimensions. Maybe it comes with age and as I realize that I possibly have more kits in my stash than I'll be able to build, especially as I will acquire more kits; why the heck should I spend time correcting what the manufacturer should have already done? The technology is there, as is the availability of accurate reference material and the actual kit subjects. Come on- you can't find a vintage Ford pickup to get correct measurements? I realize that we are not dealing with rocket science, but that's the point- it shouldn't be so difficult for any manufacturer to produce an accurate replica of a given subject. I realize that no one is forcing me or any of us to buy any particular kit, of course, but no one is forcing the manufacturers to produce second-quality merchandise. Why is it considered "good enough"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Turner2 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Thank you John! I started building in 1966, so I'm not far behind you. You made every point succinctly & perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemodeler Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Sean's build up is a second test shot - not the finished product. We are currently waiting for a third test shot-As far as I can tell revisions have not been finished on tooling for that test shot, since I was sent electronic files of parts to be revised 2 days ago and asked to approve them. DaveAll of the uproar over inaccuracies with this kit seem to be a moot point as Dave is aware of some issues and is in the process of addressing them. I think we all want an accurate rendition of the vehicle on the box cover and hopefully that is what we will get when the kits are released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 All of the uproar over inaccuracies with this kit seem to be a moot point as Dave is aware of some issues and is in the process of addressing them. Right. I think Moebius is working on revisions, so let's just wait and see what they come up with. No sense speculating now... let's wait until we actually see what revisions they make. And at that point, if there are still obvious flaws, by all means feel free to make mention of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 All I have to say in reference to all of the panicking over flawed details, If the builder is skilled enough, it shouldnt be a challenge. Every kit Ive built has flaws, some bigger than others. The first kit that comes to mind is the AMT 70's Fords. These trucks are riddled with inaccuracy. But I fixed them and moved on. Its part of modeling guys. Wanting a buildable kit straight out of the box is just laziness! That makes you a gluer, not a builder. Thats what sets a great builder apart from a ten year old with glue on their windshields. Spot the flaws and fix them. If you choose not to spend your hard earned money on a flawed model then good, thats a few more for the rest of us. What!?! Your analogy is roughly equivalent to saying if I want a good meal at a fine restaurant I have to cook it myself. That's completely off base. Wanting an accurate, buildable kit from what I purchased is laziness? Where do you get that idea? If I chose to modify or customize a kit, then yes, I should & do expect to do more work to get it to look like I envision. But for crying out loud, I shouldn't have to do their work for them to get a kit to the level of accuracy it should have been at in the first place. Danm straight, Bob Not only is this the sort of false equivalency I've had eviscerated for 15 months now in item 2 of the linked blog (look at that beauty: wanting a kit to BE WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE = laziness and absence of skill, makes you a gluer, not a builder), it totally ignores the inevitable, obvious notion that there are still plenty of ways for a builder to express his skill with an accurate kit, and that some of us would rather spend that same effort and ability enhancing an accurate kit than correcting an inaccurate one. But such are the flights of gibbering irrationality these guys have to resort to to support their attacks. I'm still trying to understand how anyone can sell himself on the idea that the burden of credibility doesn't fall on manufacturers to deliver on the promise of a scale model, it falls on us as consumers not to risk upsetting them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwildpunk Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 All of the uproar over inaccuracies with this kit seem to be a moot point as Dave is aware of some issues and is in the process of addressing them. I think we all want an accurate rendition of the vehicle on the box cover and hopefully that is what we will get when the kits are released. I thought I was the only one thinking this. A test shot is just that its a test to see where they need to make improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpeterbilt Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Boy, this little model is really eatin some peoples lunch. Now if we could only get people this fired up about something that matters. I guess Im a little easy going. There has been a lul for years in model production, and now it seams things are turning around. I choose to be happy about it, and try to encourage the youngers to get involved instead of rotting in front of electronics. At least there are people like Moebius trying to keep the hobby alive. I have no complaints. If the truck is that flawed, I guess Ill only buy about ten of them and be totally happy. I also hear that Moebius may be making one from a block of wood but you have to carve it out. Ill get a few of those also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuzzed Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 If I were to fold a sheet of looseleaf paper a few times, does that make it a scale model of a F-105 Thunderchief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petetrucker07 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I agree Terry. People sure are getting fired up. Actually a little too much, it is, in the end, 1/25 plastic model kit. Not a heart transplant, or a mortgage payment. Like you ill buy it, just build it how i want. My perfect, well hopefully. As im not much above the glue on the windshield builder. Which i like that analogy. Looking at the early test shots, my only observation is the roof and door window. When the new "test shot" is posted, then the discussion and opinions will be more relevant. I agree with you to Harry, lets wait to see how the revisions come out. Its just funny how grown men are bickering like little old bitties, over, again, a 1/25 plastic model kit thats still in development. They should be lucky that we have this forum to discuss new kits, and feel overly privileged that the manufacturer is communicating and listening to the feedback. I will again say thank you Dave, for posting the test shots and reading our feedback. Edited July 22, 2014 by Petetrucker07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Riiiight. It's all tizzy over that lousy little pair of pants the emperor forgot to put on today. Got nothin' at all to do with the mob waiting to lynch anyone who points it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Boy, the old "we expect an accurate kit vs. we can fix it, we're modelers" debate has never gotten more of a thorough thrashing than in this thread! Everyone has a different level of acceptance... some of us take inaccurate kits as a given, some of us expect a kit to be accurate right out of the box. I have to say that I'm in the second camp. Expecting a scale model to be an accurate representation of the real thing is not some sort of crazy, pie-in-the-sky notion... it's an absolutely valid and rational expectation. And people who comment on the flaws of a kit are not lazy whiners that can never be satisfied and demand a "perfect" kit... they are people who expect a kit to be accurate, and when it's not, they discuss the kit's shortcomings on a model car discussion board. Imagine that! Using a model car discussion board to discuss model cars! If you are one of those people who either don't care about accuracy, or are willing to fix an inaccurate kit, that's fine. For you. But what gives you the authority to tell those of us who do expect a kit to be correct in the first place that we are somehow off-base? Fixing a kit's flaws is certainly within the capabilities of most of us. But that's not the point. Sure... most of us can do that work... but the point is, we shouldn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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