1959 Chevy in 1:25?

Mr.Zombie · November 18, 2014

Hello.

I'm looking for info/links. I'd like to build a 1959 Batwing Chevy, but I can't find any info on who made one, I think I saw one pic of a Monogram kit, but it's long out of stock.

And I mean the sedan, not convertible or pickup.

Then I'd like to know if there was ever a fourdoor version of it. Maybe resin? How, what needs to be redone to make a 2 door into a moredoor? The roofline seems to be the same, so theoretically it'll be a matter of rescribbeling the doors, doorposts, doorcards, done?

All info would be much apreciated.

Thanks.

MrObsessive · November 18, 2014

Well, not quite. '59 Chevy sedan rooflines are quite different from their hardtop brethren. Sedan roofs are taller, thus the windshield itself is taller. Rear pillars are shaped differently as well, so it's not just a matter of adding door posts and such.

Tom Coolidge once sold sedan (two and four door) roof sections (sorry I don't have a link or email), and one could kitbash this with Monogram's '59 Impala------------but there's some work involved in making this look seamless. I happen to have both roof sections (four door and two door), but don't want to part with 'em as this is one of my someday projects.

I can't think of anyone at the moment that makes a (accurate) '59 sedan---------maybe someone else can help out on this? BTW, as far as I know, Monogram's '59 is readily available..........I've seen them on eBay and other sites, so they're out there.

Hope this helps!

Edit: Ok, I did some digging and I happen to have his Fotki page bookmarked. If you click here, you can see some of the models he produced which featured that sedan roofline. Compare this to the hardtop version of that same car, and you'll see the difference.

Perhaps you can contact him through Fotki if you're interested?

Edited November 18, 2014 by MrObsessive

zenrat · November 18, 2014

Modelhaus do a resin 1959 impala 4 door hardtop roof.

http://www.modelhaus.com/index.php?c=4041&p=65902

Mr.Zombie · November 18, 2014

Yea, but it's a Flattop. I need a "normal" roof. Besides, I never know what to think of that Modelhaus webside, no pics, no nothing, descriptions are not really helping alot...

I was honestly hoping for some JoHan promo or whatever. The car I'd like to replicate will live off the exterior anyway...

I wrote that guy Tom a mail, let's see if he answers.

vintagercr · November 18, 2014

Adam, Modelhaus produces excellent work. I believe someone posted sometime ago photos of their product.

vintagercr · November 18, 2014

Adam, try this.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=80263&hl=%2Bmodelhaus+%2Bresin+%2Balbum

DumpyDan · November 18, 2014

Wow, thanks Steve

John Goschke · November 18, 2014

By way of illustration, here are shots comparing the Tom Coolidge's Promolite Olds two-door sedan and the Revell/Monogram '59 Impala hardtop showing how much lower and shorter in length the two-door hardtop roof is than the sedan. The '59 and '60 GM sedans and the Buick and Cadillac six-window four-door hardtops all used the same roof stamping, rear window, and windshield. The roof section Tom used for his sedan conversions came from a '59 or '60 Johan Cadillac.

impcon · November 18, 2014

Maybe I can help here. Where to start though??? OK, the Impala and Canadian built Bel Air 2 door hardtops are unique in styling in some ways as compared to their lower line sisters in quite a few ways. First of all, the roof as has been pointed out, is shorter and the rear deck lid on a Sport Coupe is unique to the two door hard top only in that is is much longer than other body styles. Two and four door sedans shared their rear decks with the convertible and the trunk lids do interchange but the Impala convertibles and sedans had a stainless strip running down the center and it's own "T" shaped trunk emblem molding. The trunk strip fits into the "V" shaped stainless piece that holds the plastic bow tie "crest" in the center and is a part of the fin moldings. So to build a sedan, the Monogram convertible and one of Tom's roof sections makes for a good starting point. I agree that attaching it and making it seamless is a bit of a job, but the efforts are worth it. The roof casting, like everything that Tom makes, is first rate and couldn't be better. All glass interchanges between all '59 model year cars, so that suggests that the roofs are all the same stamping as per being of course, either sedan or coupe. Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Olds and Cadillac all share the same hard top only and sedan and wagon glass and stainless window trim. The sole exception is the Cadillac six window sedan which has it's own windshield and I am honestly not sure about the rest of the glass in that car fitting the other GM products. So, for example, if you have a '59 Olds annual with a destroyed roof, then a Monogram Impala hardtop roof should be fairly close depending on how close the masters were to each other when they were made. When you get into these cars and start learning some things, the ingenuity at GM in making the same parts fit different makes is amazing. It had to have saved a pile of cash on tooling back in the day. We've really lost something over the years...

To make a four door with the correct roof will be a true test of almost anyone's abilities - aside from some of the guys on this forum like Bill ( Mr. Obsessive ) and a few others who I swear are magicians and can build anything. Two door sedan doors do not, contrary to popular belief, fit on a sedan delivery or two door wagon, The lower door is the same, but the upper door frame is somewhat curved on the sedan while it is straight on the other cars. Just as a matter of interest, as if anybody will really be interested - but just in case - four door model wagon and sedan front doors are the same - but again, the wagon has its own rear doors. The two door wagon and sedan delivery doors interchange but without changing the upper frame. those doors do not fit a sedan and the door glass is different as well. I'll have to go out and do some measuring to make sure that the roof skin on all sedans is the same but I am pretty confidant that it is.

On a four door, the added little pillar and window behind the read door needs to be added to the resin roof and the rear door frame will have to be fabricated. The roof, as Bill said, is lower on the sedan, wagon, sedan delivery and El Camino by three inches - pretty substantial and very noticeable when you look closely at the cars. And by the way, the two door sedan Biscayne resin kit that has been offered on Ebay is just a reworked Impala hardtop with the wrong roof and deck lid. No disrespect meant, but I know because I bought one. In my ever to be humble opinion, it's better to start with a resin roof from Promolite ( I bought several when I bought my 59 Ford two door Custom 300 ) and the convertible than it is to try to convert the resin "copy". The casting is nice enough and I guess that if either you do not know of the difference in roofs or simply don't care, then the resin kit may fit the bill. However, the one that I bought did not come with an interior, so if a street rod, custom or phantom Impala 2 door sedan is what you want, then you can use the Monogram interior bucket and it would do. Personally, while as I said, the casting is OK, I was not happy to have paid what I did for something that I could have done myself for less money. Like a lot of resin stuff, it's a reasonable facsimile of the real thing.

Depending upon what model of Chevrolet it is that you want to build - Impala, Bel Air or Biscayne, the Monogram convertibles insert in the body sides may have to be eliminated. I glued strip styrene into the grooves, matching it as closely as possible to the kit body and then used a skim of filler and quite a bit of sanding to make the sides of the car smooth. If you are building a Bel Air, then the Bel Air side trim will cover up some imperfections if there are any, but it isn't that difficult of a task even for someone of my limited building abilities. The AMT '59 El Camino has the proper side trim for a Bel Air if you can figure out how to cast a copy of the trim which of course, runs the full length of the car. If you are building a Biscayne, then you have to make the trim or cast a copy off of the Modelhaus 2 door wagon or a promo if you can find one. Bel Airs and Biscaynes also do not have the rear "vent" that is found on the Impala models above the rear glass in the center of the roof nor did they have the stainless trim strip that runs along the top of each front fender. Look at the AMT El Camino and you will have a good idea as to the proper shape of the top of the front fender body lines. When I was working on my Bel Air hardtop conversion, I was able to sand the sharp edged trim on the fender tops down to what on a 1:1 car would be under those stainless strips.. And I know of no proper Biscayne or Bel Air side scripts, so ??? Again, I will add a side note here - the two door wagon was of the Biscayne trim level inside and out but it was labeled as a Brookwood. The sedan deliveries in both 59 and 60 were also Biscayne trimmed but the strange thing is that despite being a sister to the wagon, sedan deliveries bore the Biscayne scripts - in 59 on the rear quarters and in 60 on the front fenders. The aluminum trim piece on the dash board above the glove box was stamped "Chevrolet" as on the Biscayne and Bel Air line while the Impala models all had Impala stamped on that part. There were three different steering wheels - one that was Impala only ( same for 58. 59 and '60 Impalas ) and two others - one that had a small kind of painted or stainless ( seems to vary ) oval shaped horn button and the more deluxe horn ring available on Biscayne, El Camino and sedan deliveries ( standard equipment on the Bel Air ) with a chrome horn ring and a much nicer appearance to it. The AMT El Camino model steering wheel has the cheaper, more simple horn button but it is correct for Biscayne trim level cars and wagons, EL Caminos and sedan deliveries. Oddly, I have seen very few of those cheaper looking horn buttons in real life with the more fancy horn ring seeming to be the norm. I suspect that those horn buttons were left overs from the 58 Del Ray and Yeoman series and the factory just used up what was left on the earlier 59's - but I could be wrong on that. I have read two different theories on that but what I have seen suggests that the half ring, more fancy horn button was more common. The exact same steering wheel and horn ring was used in 1960 - 66 Chev pickups as an option too, by the way. The 59 Chevrolet trucks used the same steering wheel as the '55 - 58 ones.

I've done some experimenting and looking and fitting regarding the options that I have been able to find for interiors. I do not know of a '59 Bel Air kit so the seat upholstery and door panels inside are going to have to be fabricated. However, if you are building a Biscayne, then you have two choices. The AMT El Camino has the proper dash for a Bel Air and if the chrome ( actually aluminum in real life ) trim strip that runs across the dash between the instrument cluster and radio on the top and the heater controls on the bottom is eliminated, aside from a small section above the ignition switch that on a 1: 1 car is about three inches long, you now have a proper Biscayne dash board. The Monogram dash is molded to accept the Impala-only chrome lower dash trim. The AMT dash is by far and away, the best choice. The El Camino interior is kind of a dog's breakfast with it's Bel Air trim on the dash mixed with Biscayne seat upholstery, rubber floor mats and door panels. Bel Airs had an odd mixture of carpet and rubber on the floor giving the false appearance of a fully carpeted interior with rubber floor mats. In reality, the only carpet was where it would do the least good to protect the floors - on the interior drive shaft tunnel. AMT did a better job on that interior than some present day manufacturers do on theirs which I think is shameful. Whoever did the master for the Modelhaus 2 door wagon did a pretty fair job on the interior with only really one glitch but we wont get into that. If you are building a car, then that minor flaw is of no consequence. The wagon interior bucket fits fairly nicely in the Monogram body with not a lot of work, giving you an instant Biscayne two door sedan ( can anyone say jet black with gray interior, 348, 3 speed standard Duntov CHP chase car?? like the one in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV-HGx1O1oU ??? ) interior. The rear cargo area needs to be trimmed off and a rear package shelf fabricated from sheet plastic, but the interior fits amazingly well and yes, you can buy just the wagon interior from Don and carol. The Monogram or El Camino chassis would be of course be correct and both interchange without a ton of modification. The Monogram chassis is more detailed but the AMT front wheels are pose able. For some of you out there, that isn't an issue given what I have seen on these forums for for us with somewhat more limited abilities, it would be a learning experience converting the Monogram chassis.

Interior colours were limited from the factory to the most common colour being gray, followed by brown, green, blue and aqua. Most Biscayne trim level cars seem to have had the basic gray interior although I have seen them with green, brown and blue interiors - but never have I seen a Biscayne or El Camino in aqua - a colour which makes for a beautiful interior. They may exist, but I can not recall ever seeing one. I have seen several Bel Airs with aqua interiors including a freshly restored Bel Air two door sedan that I have photos somewhere of that was here at my place one day. Talk about gorgeous!!!! Contrary to popular belief, there was no black interior until 1960 and no white interiors until later than that - 63 or 64 I do believe. Dash boards were interior coloured only and with a gloss finish until mid '59 when GM applied a semi gloss textured finish to them. The dash never was exterior body colour.

The Monogram kit also provides extra pieces such as rear view mirror ( Biscaynes and Bel Airs did not have chrome mirror or mirror head pedestals - they were painted interior colour ), exterior door handles ( a feature that every model needs - maybe some resin caster should consider casting them as the door handles were virtually identical for decades ), exterior door mirrors ( another need in the resin world as discussed on another thread ), front fender ornaments ( available as an option on all models in '59 and standard equipment on Impala ) , rear deck antennae ( also available as an option on all sedans, hard tops and the convertible - either just one usually mounted on the passenger's rear deck or as a pair - one that served as the actual radio antennae and the other just a dummy ), front bumper with grille guard ( all models as an option ) fender skirts ( another option ) and other bits and pieces.

If you proceed with this project and need photos or measurements, pm me and I'll do what I can to help. I am in total agreement that a four door and proper two door sedan resin kit would probably go over fairly well and as I keep saying, we really need a four door base line wagon or at least one that can be converted. I don't know everything about the 59 Chevrolet, but they have been an interest of mine since they were brand new and I have owned a fair number of them and I will be happy to help if I can. Sorry for being so long winded but I am just trying to be thorough.

Edited November 18, 2014 by impcon

Art Anderson · November 18, 2014

Hello.

I'm looking for info/links. I'd like to build a 1959 Batwing Chevy, but I can't find any info on who made one, I think I saw one pic of a Monogram kit, but it's long out of stock.

And I mean the sedan, not convertible or pickup.

Then I'd like to know if there was ever a fourdoor version of it. Maybe resin? How, what needs to be redone to make a 2 door into a moredoor? The roofline seems to be the same, so theoretically it'll be a matter of rescribbeling the doors, doorposts, doorcards, done?

All info would be much apreciated.

Thanks.

OK, a simple answer here:

For converting a correctly done '59 Chevrolet 2dr sedan body shell to a 4-door isn't rocket science. The front doors of the 4dr were 6" shorter than the side doors of a 2dr sedan, which means simply moving that door post (AKA B-post) forward by that distance and rescribing the door line. The rear door ends just forward of the bottom rear corner of the quarter window (don't have the exact measurement any more, as I no longer have my '59 Biscayne 4dr--real car), but that can be interpolated from the picture you posted. Note that there is a slim pillar there, which is the rear edge of the door frame itself with a corresponding post behind it (inside, does not show to the exterior enough to worry about) and of course, that small, non-opening quarter window between the rear door and the base of the C-pillar.

The roof line of a '59 GM 2dr sedan is different from that of any of their 2dr hardtops, due to the windshield being taller (to see that difference, compare an AMT '59 El Camino windshield with the Revell '59 Impala HT or Convertible--hardtops that year were simply convertibles with steel tops welded in place), you will readily see the difference.

I mastered a '59 Biscayne 2dr sedan in 1994, using my own real '59 Biscayne 4dr sedan as a reference. I used the roof from a JoHan '59 Cadillac 6-window sedan (from just behind the windshield header back to the tulip panel (that's the sheet metal panel between trunk lid and the bottom of the back window), with the A-posts and windshield header from the AMT El Camino. It was a perfect fit, BTW. The JoHan roof had to be widened by .125" due to that company making their promotional model (and the model kit that came from the same tooling) that much too narrow, along with some other "undersizing" in order to meet a GM requirement then that all promotional model cars had to fit in a standard size box.

Tom Coolidge's '59 Chevy 2dr sedan is quite well done, so the moving of the B-post and front door rear edge will work there, as I described above.

Art

Tom Geiger · November 18, 2014

R&R did a resin 4 door sedan. I believe it was a direct pop off an old resin. Quality was iffy, I have one somewhere in my mess. Ray died a while ago and nobody has picked up his business. His stuff is found being resold at shows and on eBay.