Mackvision Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I have seen several set of engine detail decal sets available from different vendors,both generic (Wix,Fram,Fleetguard etc.) as well as Mack, Cummins, Detroit Diesel but no Caterpillar,how come? is it a licensing issue? I am still looking for a Mack detail sheet with the different model numbers I.E. B-61,Thermodyne,Diesel scripts etc.................................Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim B Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The only Mack logos that I know of are the KFS P/E set for the R, F, & Superliner trucks (maybe the Cruiseliner, too). It does have the Thermodyne scripts, though. As far as Caterpiller logos, yes, it's a licensing thing. If you print ANYTHING with Caaterpiller or CAT on it without their permission, they will come down on you like an 800-lb gorilla (or is it guerrilla, I always forget). If you're looking for Mack filter logos, check with Ben Wicker over at Class A Resin ( http://bwicke9.wix.com/class-a-resin#!high-quality-decals/c20es ). Hint: take a close look at the Miscellaneous Filter Decals. You might find the other ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackvision Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Thanks Jim! I am still amazed at all that's become available for our hobby,i couldn't have dreamed of all these things just a few years back,just what I was looking for!................................Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim B Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 You like that? Check out this: http://www.czechtruckmodel.com/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) It's unfortunate that companys don't see the value of the "Free Advertising" they get from this hobby, they don't have to do anything and their product and name gets shown for free in the model kits we build. No today they are trying to get out every cent they can from their brand name but if the licenses gets too expensive they don't get anything at all. A good example of that is Revell and their no name tires...Good Year wanted a lot of money from Revell to allow them to continue to use their name on the kit tires, instead of paying Good Year Revell stopped making tires with Good Year names...What did Good Year get out of that???...Exactly Nothing...and they lost out on the free advertising they had before at the same time...kind of a bad business decision if you ask me. I for one learned of the Good Year brand and what they did from my model building when I was a kid...long before I was involved with real cars. It isn't like Revell misses out on any sales and have to pay the licensing fee to be able to sell their kits as we don't stop buying kits just because the Good Year name are missing from the tires...as long as it has tires we buy... but it would have been great if the name on the tires still was on there for authenticity. I don't mind if the companys wants to have a say in how their products are presented when model companys does a model using their name, they have to take care of the brand and how it's used...so that's understandable...but taking out horrendous licensing fees for that I strongly disapprove of...this business doesn't have that margin and the kit prices will go up even more if this continues...or the model companys will stop doing things that's has too expensive licensing fees...that's a fact. Caterpilar is probably a company that has very expensive licensing so that's why we don't get anything with the Caterpillar or CAT names anymore...the last issue of the AMT Caterpillar D8 dozer had no Caterpillar or CAT name what so ever anywhere...and that's sad as the model IS a Caterpillar and has always been. Caterpillar has also chased the small cottage aftermarket industy so we can't get many resin Caterpillar engines for our truck models either...and a more modern CAT 3406E, C15 or C16 engine would have been nice to be able to get for our builds. The only available CAT egines right now are the older 3406A-B from the Revell/Monogram KW W900 and Pete 359 snap kits and the 3408 from Revell Germany KW K900-T900...and the old 1693TA. Edited May 2, 2014 by Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoneguy Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 That's why I won't SELL certain decals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatswhatshesaid Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 It's unfortunate that companys don't see the value of the "Free Advertising" they get from this hobby, they don't have to do anything and their product and name gets shown for free in the model kits we build. No today they are trying to get out every cent they can from their brand name but if the licenses gets too expensive they don't get anything at all. A good example of that is Revell and their no name tires...Good Year wanted a lot of money from Revell to allow them to continue to use their name on the kit tires, instead of paying Good Year Revell stopped making tires with Good Year names...What did Good Year get out of that???...Exactly Nothing...and they lost out on the free advertising they had before at the same time...kind of a bad business decision if you ask me. I for one learned of the Good Year brand and what they did from my model building when I was a kid...long before I was involved with real cars. It isn't like Revell misses out on any sales and have to pay the licensing fee to be able to sell their kits as we don't stop buying kits just because the Good Year name are missing from the tires...as long as it has tires we buy... but it would have been great if the name on the tires still was on there for authenticity. I don't mind if the companys wants to have a say in how their products are presented when model companys does a model using their name, they have to take care of the brand and how it's used...so that's understandable...but taking out horrendous licensing fees for that I strongly disapprove of...this business doesn't have that margin and the kit prices will go up even more if this continues...or the model companys will stop doing things that's has too expensive licensing fees...that's a fact. Caterpilar is probably a company that has very expensive licensing so that's why we don't get anything with the Caterpillar or CAT names anymore...the last issue of the AMT Caterpillar D8 dozer had no Caterpillar or CAT name what so ever anywhere...and that's sad as the model IS a Caterpillar and has always been. Caterpillar has also chased the small cottage aftermarket industy so we can't get many resin Caterpillar engines for our truck models either...and a more modern CAT 3406E, C15 or C16 engine would have been nice to be able to get for our builds. The only available CAT egines right now are the older 3406A-B from the Revell/Monogram KW W900 and Pete 359 snap kits and the 3408 from Revell Germany KW K900-T900...and the old 1693TA. The 'free adverstising' aspect of it doesn't really hold water anymore. In this day and age of the internet and social media, there are way better ways for a company to get their name out there. In the grand scheme of things, getting your company name on a model kit tire or decal is miniscule. In the corporate world it is all about protecting what you have. I'm sure if you guys had a company you would be protective of your logos/trademarks as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincen47 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The model railroad hobby has been dealing with this licensing issue for years. It wasn't always like this, but if you buy a Union Pacific loco (or any of the many railroads UP has ever taken over thoughout its history) you often will pay a few bucks more to cover the costs of the agreement. UP charges for it, while other companies allow, with permission, to use their trademarks for free. UP had a big court fight about 10 years ago with a model railroad company. Needless to say, the country's largest railroad won the fight. I wish Cat would allow, even for a fee, for model companies to produce modern On-Highway diesel engines. Cat isn't even making them anymore. Maybe they do, but the costs are too high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) The 'free adverstising' aspect of it doesn't really hold water anymore. In this day and age of the internet and social media, there are way better ways for a company to get their name out there. In the grand scheme of things, getting your company name on a model kit tire or decal is miniscule. In the corporate world it is all about protecting what you have. I'm sure if you guys had a company you would be protective of your logos/trademarks as well. Well it can't get any cheaper than free and they don't even have to do anything to get exposure of their brand...how can you beat that,..but of course, in this case Good Year or Caterpillar might not sell more because of this but their name for sure gets out there for nothing, I understand that Companys wants to have control over their brand and trademarks but if their names not are used in the wrong way and it's a good representation of the tire, engine, dozer or whatever I can't see the harm. There are most likely other ways to get exposure in our modern day and age, but all advertising has a price and the companys mostly has to pay for their comercial spots and adds...in this hobby they have got exposure for free...and now they wants money for using their brand names...it should be the other way around. Edited May 3, 2014 by Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatswhatshesaid Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I wish Cat would allow, even for a fee, for model companies to produce modern On-Highway diesel engines. Cat isn't even making them anymore. Maybe they do, but the costs are too high? Cat is no longer making highway engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatswhatshesaid Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Well it can't get any cheaper than free and they don't even have to do anything to get exposure of their brand...how can you beat that,..but of course, in this case Good Year or Caterpillar might not sell more because of this but their name for sure gets out there for nothing, I understand that Companys wants to have control over their brand and trademarks but if their names not are used in the wrong way and it's a good representation of the tire, engine, dozer or whatever I can't see the harm. There are most likely other ways to get exposure in our modern day and age, but all advertising has a price and the companys mostly has to pay for their comercial spots and adds...in this hobby they have got exposure for free...and now they wants money for using their brand names...it should be the other way around. Big companies like Goodyear and Cat don't need to get their name out there in the modeling community. These aren't small start-up companies trying to get their name out there to build a business. The model car hobby is a very small market. Its not worth compromising the trademark to sell maybe 25k kits. On the other hand, lets say the model companies pay the fees. That cost gets added to the kit. Then the kit price griping begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) No they don't. But I don't understand why some of these large companys have to take out horrendous licensing fees just to use their trademark when it's not used in for them compromising way...and if they are asked by the model manufacturers they still have full control over the product and how it represents it, if they don't approve of how the trademark is presented they can just say no and the manufacturer must start over and do it right. The large companys will never be making a lot of money on giving out licensing for this hobby anyway...as you say it's too small a market to make any difference so it doesn't matter if the licensing fees are high or low. I think Cat stopped making On Highway engines in 2010, they use Navistar engines in the Cat trucks now. Edited May 4, 2014 by Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatswhatshesaid Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Some companies are just that way when it comes to their copyrights and trademarks. Caterpillar chooses to be on the extreme end of it. I can see both sides of the argument on this. Unfortunately , unless someone ponies up the fee (I don't even know if its a guarantee that CAT would approve a model kit) it looks like we will just have to do without. If a kit was to be produced that fee would then be passed on to the consumer. Kit pricing already starts a gripe fest, imagine the extra cost associated with an authentic licensed product. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, its just the day and age we live in. On the other hand, other companies don't seem to care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Yes that's the consequence of the whole deal...the consumer at the end looses out either way. Either we get a very expensive model or we don't get anything at all. Edited May 4, 2014 by Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scale trucker Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 cat is in the middle of a monster law suit about the 2007-10 cat c-15 engine...give it time and they might let us do stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim B Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I wouldn't count on it. They'll need to pay for that lawsuit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazefox Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 You could buy decal paper and try print your own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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