Big Trucks, Spoked Wheels..

[10thumbs]

Hi guys,

In my ongoing question series, 'bout Diesels and big Trucks,  I'd like to know which ones had those 5 or 6 spoked wheels up front?

I'm thinking about starting to build big trucks, mainly just the tractor so I'd like to zero in on a definite model or two.

Also, I'm a helpless soul when it comes to Alclad chrome.  My technique just flat stinks,  so i figure the spoked wheels cast in metal then a brushed metal finish would look good.

If conventional or COE, doesn't really matter right now.  I'd just like to get my feet wet for starters.

Thanks in advance,

Michael

[Jim B]

Well, the answer is: it depends.  Many vocational trucks have spokes, but not all.  Spokes were very popular in the Northeast (and still are).  Sometimes you'll see a combination on older trucks: disks on the front with spokes on the rear.  Many fleets in the 1960s & 70s ran spokes.  Spokes are also very popular in Australia.  So, like I said, it just sort of depends.

[disabled modeler]

I like the look of the spokes...I like the old school look of them.  The old re-issued Diamond REO truck has them...its a sweet kit.

[KJ790]

Pretty much every brand and model of truck gives the buyer the choice of wheels, be it aluminum disk, steel disk (2-hole or 5-hole), or spokes. Spokes used to be pretty popular, but over the last 20 years they have become much less popular in the US. They are rarely seen now on new trucks except for some vocational trucks. Spoke wheels are almost always painted. It is common for them to be painted the same color as the frame and rest of the chassis with the rims themselves being white or grey.

[DRIPTROIT 71]

Deciding whether to use 5 or 6 spoke also depends. Spoke wheels are like many other parts on class 8 trucks (engines, air dryers, seats, fifth wheels, etc.), there are many different brands. The Diamond Reo kit comes with 5 spoke front wheels. The last Diamond Reo that I built I used 6 spoke because these wheels were also offered. Some trucks like old Macks will have wheels that will usually only be found other Macks. Reference pictures that can be easily found on the internet are a good source to help you get the look that you desire for your model.

[10thumbs]

Thanks guys, I'm learning step by step.  Like different wheel choices available with the kits.  That's good.  EDIT: I think KJ meant available in the real world, 1:1. 

Also, the ones I'm looking for are called "Dayton" wheels.  I like them because I think they'd make for nice detailing on my 1st model truck.  The rear wheels especially.  Now if the Daytons are 6 spoked too, I have no idea. 

Mark and Brian, I just checked out the Diamond Reo, an AMT kit.  That does look about right for me. 

Somewhere too I think I saw a White Freightliner with the Dayton wheels.  Now I have to see what kit the truck is from.

I really don't know much about truck kits.  Any recommendations from you guys would be great.

[DRIPTROIT 71]

Keep in mind that although Dayton is one manufacturer of spoke wheels, that spoke wheels in general are often called "Daytons" (at least used to be)regardless of the manufacturer, much like 2 hole disc wheels are often called "Budds" regardless of manufacturer, or slip jaw piers are called "Channellocks" regardless of the manufacturer. Once you have found a photo of the type of wheels that you were hoping to use, if you don't have them, post the photo and someone can tell you the best place to source them from if you can't find them.

[10thumbs]

Thanks Brian, that's some valuable insight.

As far as the kits are concerned, are Dayton wheels 2 piece?  I can't imagine those massive pieces are done as a single wheel.

Guys, here's the scoop.  I like casting parts, wheels for instance in metal.  I'm after great details, and you just can't beat metal.  Nothing more real looking on a model than metal.  Should the Dayton wheels be 2 pieces at least, then those things will look utterly fantastic on a model.  The rears too.

So, next question, 1 piece on the models or 2 or more parts?

[KJ790]

Thanks Brian, that's some valuable insight.

As far as the kits are concerned, are Dayton wheels 2 piece?  I can't imagine those massive pieces are done as a single wheel.

Guys, here's the scoop.  I like casting parts, wheels for instance in metal.  I'm after great details, and you just can't beat metal.  Nothing more real looking on a model than metal.  Should the Dayton wheels be 2 pieces at least, then those things will look utterly fantastic on a model.  The rears too.

So, next question, 1 piece on the models or 2 or more parts?

On models they are done a couple different ways, but always in multiple pieces. The Diamond Reo kit has the center spokes with the wheel spacer (which sits between the two rims in real life) molded as one piece. It then has rims that you glue onto each side of this to complete the duals. The Astro kit has the center spokes as its own piece, with the rims separate.

 

I cast resin pieces and am actually working on some spokes right now. I am going to make them like the real wheels, where the center spokes are one piece, then each rim is its own piece, an individual center spacer, and a separate brake drum. It will be more work, but I am hoping it will give a more realistic look when complete.

[DRIPTROIT 71]

On models they are done a couple different ways, but always in multiple pieces. The Diamond Reo kit has the center spokes with the wheel spacer (which sits between the two rims in real life) molded as one piece. It then has rims that you glue onto each side of this to complete the duals. The Astro kit has the center spokes as its own piece, with the rims separate.

 

I cast resin pieces and am actually working on some spokes right now. I am going to make them like the real wheels, where the center spokes are one piece, then each rim is its own piece, an individual center spacer, and a separate brake drum. It will be more work, but I am hoping it will give a more realistic look when complete.

You've got my attention KJ. I'll be looking for those.

[DRIPTROIT 71]

Thanks Brian, that's some valuable insight.

As far as the kits are concerned, are Dayton wheels 2 piece?  I can't imagine those massive pieces are done as a single wheel.

Guys, here's the scoop.  I like casting parts, wheels for instance in metal.  I'm after great details, and you just can't beat metal.  Nothing more real looking on a model than metal.  Should the Dayton wheels be 2 pieces at least, then those things will look utterly fantastic on a model.  The rears too.

So, next question, 1 piece on the models or 2 or more parts?

The way KJ described making his resin spoke wheels are like the 1:1

First: the rim is simply a rim:

Second: the spoke center is on piece with wedges on each spoke to hold the rim:

Third: a spacer is used on the rear to separate the duals:

[10thumbs]

So I take it KJ sells these parts too?  KJ, you have mail.

Brian, the hub....I assume the shiny clamps with nuts squeeze onto the inner flange sticking up just inside the rim.  Right?

OK, I don't understand the spacer deal on the rears.  Double tires, is the inside wheel made different than the outside wheel?  I mean the inner part of the outer wheel goes up against the same, or is the inner wheel a different animal altogether?

Oh boy, I have a feeling things are getting close!  Ordering soon guys.

[KJ790]

So I take it KJ sells these parts too?  KJ, you have mail.

Brian, the hub....I assume the shiny clamps with nuts squeeze onto the inner flange sticking up just inside the rim.  Right?

OK, I don't understand the spacer deal on the rears.  Double tires, is the inside wheel made different than the outside wheel?  I mean the inner part of the outer wheel goes up against the same, or is the inner wheel a different animal altogether?

Oh boy, I have a feeling things are getting close!  Ordering soon guys.

The spacer is needed to keep a space between the tires, otherwise they rub together as they squish under load and the sidewall of the tires would wear. The inside rim and outside rim is the same, just turned around backwards so the side with the extra lip is facing each other (with the spacer between them). You are correct on how they are held together, the nuts tighten the wedges which squeeze the whole stack together.

[DRIPTROIT 71]

So I take it KJ sells these parts too?  KJ, you have mail.

Brian, the hub....I assume the shiny clamps with nuts squeeze onto the inner flange sticking up just inside the rim.  Right?

OK, I don't understand the spacer deal on the rears.  Double tires, is the inside wheel made different than the outside wheel?  I mean the inner part of the outer wheel goes up against the same, or is the inner wheel a different animal altogether?

Oh boy, I have a feeling things are getting close!  Ordering soon guys.

All of the rims are the same. The front rims and the inner rear rims are turned opposite of the outer rears.  On the rear it is: rim turned in (a lip on the spoke stops it), then spacer, then rim turned out, all held on by the wedges.

The wedges tighten against the rim that you see on the top of the upper photo. These have to be tightened evenly or the wheel will wobble. If you get behind a truck or bus with spokes and the duals are wobbling, then somebody probably tightened them up crooked.

Oops I posted the same time KJ did, but same answer.

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by DRIPTROIT 71

[KJ790]

You've got my attention KJ. I'll be looking for those.

This is the idea I am trying to go with. I just sent all of these part files off to the 3D printer, so I should be able to see if it will work in a couple weeks.

 

 

[DRIPTROIT 71]

This is the idea I am trying to go with. I just sent all of these part files off to the 3D printer, so I should be able to see if it will work in a couple weeks.

 

 

After Christmas, I was going to order some tires for the 2 hole Budds that I got from you off of Ebay. Maybe I'll be ordering more than I thought.

[10thumbs]

@KJ....Oh boy, first I have an explosion view of the rear wheel environment, plus a pretty cool looking wheel setup.  So now I'm thinking, those parts there, cast in metal, with each part having a slightly different finish....is exactly along the lines of what I'm looking for.  Plus rubber tires.  Good stuff!

(Geez, how many sets do I need for a nice kit?  Like maybe the Diamond Reo from AMT).  4 in the back, 1/2 up front?  Dang, trucks are expensive.

[gatorincebu]

@KJ....Oh boy, first I have an explosion view of the rear wheel environment, plus a pretty cool looking wheel setup.  So now I'm thinking, those parts there, cast in metal, with each part having a slightly different finish....is exactly along the lines of what I'm looking for.  Plus rubber tires.  Good stuff!

(Geez, how many sets do I need for a nice kit?  Like maybe the Diamond Reo from AMT).  4 in the back, 1/2 up front?  Dang, trucks are expensive.

         Michael,

                    Building model trucks ( semi's ) is not getting any cheaper. But it is a very fulfilling hobby. You can build a kit straight out of the box. For little more than the price of the kit and paint. Or you can add/change things by scratch building , casting or buying parts from the aftermarket suppliers. I know of some model trucks that cost the builder a couple of hundred dollars by the time they were all done.I also know of others that buy parts bins on Evilbay and build a complete model from the parts.That is part of the enjoyment of the hobby.

   For your Diamond Reo kit you would need ten tires and wheels.  Have fun and enjoy the hobby.

 

 I will be following this thread,

 

 

     Be Well

      Gator

[10thumbs]

Thanks Gator for your input.  I'm really getting ready to get my 1st truck on the bench.  I'm just nuts about details, and making them visible.  I know well the cost of extras that come up.  The very small car on my avatar is a scratch build, all done in metal, and a bit more costly than out of the box.  But this is the way it has to be, so be it.  No looking back now.

The wheels KJ show, and the way Brian explains, is the way it has to be.  I'll more than likely do it this way too, 'cause I like the look.  With some time I'll zero in on the kit,  I'm a rookie, but the Freightliner COE is looking good as well as a couple of others.

Thanks for looking here.

Michael

[Old Buckaroo]

Don't forget the valve stems

On the outers and front, they are toward the inside of the rim and pretty much hidden from the eye . I wouldn't bother.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Old Buckaroo

[10thumbs]

I think too the thing with the valve stems is overrated.  On the last two builds I cast the wheels in steel and the puny stems are so small I have to turn a bright light on and put the car in my face to even see the silly things.  I think if they're that small, I can't see them, then I don't need them either.  If I make them visible, then the scale is out of whack and no tire has a stem as thick as a fat cigar, 'cause that's what the scale would be like.  So, at least for cars in 1:25 I won't bother with them again.  Interesting too, on the pics I took of the car, none of them show the stems.  2 are black, the other 2 are shiny brass (forgot to paint them!).  Neither is visible.

[10thumbs]

Perhaps then you're not "nuts about details and making them visible"

So what's your problem?

You wrote not to forget valve stems.  I replied essentially that I don't see any sense in valve stems so I'll pass in the future.

 

 

 

 

 

[Muncie]

Spoke wheels are appropriate for most of the AMT kits because they are based on trucks manufactured in the early 1970's - really just came down to fleet preference.  Six spoke wheels are used for the heavier weight ratings and heavier duty vocational applications.

You've probably noticed from the pictures that the spoke section of the wheel assembly is actually the hub with the wheel bearings and that the brake drum bolts to the inboard side of the hub.  Back in the way back machine, disc wheels were also kind of the same thing with the drum mounted inside of the flange on the hub.  In the late 70's, truck manufacturer's started offering optional "outboard mounted" drums - available only with disc wheels.  The drum is mounted outboard of the flange on the hub.  It pretty quickly became the popular wheel end system because the drum could be removed without touching the hub and bearings to change brake linings.  Disc wheels now are limited to applications where they are absolutely required (can't think of one) or where the owner prefers them.

[10thumbs]

Thanks for the insight Steve.  With this info I think I can turn my attention to AMT kits as well.  Plus the opportunity for aftermarket resin wheels (like from KJ) may really open up possibilities. 

I've checked ebay in Germany and there are Revells, a couple of AMT'S and Italeri's (1:24) to be had.  All buy now, no auctions.  Pricey too.  Next step for me is to research which trucks were 70's era.

[KJ790]

I like to add valve stems to the outside rims on my wheels, I think it adds that little extra detail. I use a wire paper clip and cut a short piece off of it, then drill a little hole in the rim and glue the piece of wire into it. On this build I used the spoke wheels from an AMT Diamond Reo kit. I modified the rims to have the "drop center" hump of a tubless rim and added valve stems. You can see one of the valve stems on the rear axle.